|Avengers >> View Post|
Subj: Stop. HAMMER time!
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 09:04:33 pm EDT (Viewed 120 times)
Reply Subj: Re: You'd think, wouldn't you? December Solicits
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:12:55 pm EDT (Viewed 143 times)
> I was trying to get you (t)rolling, and then I'd join in like old times. Perhaps this will help
Godammit, Marvel, why do you hate me so much? Why do you want the X-Men to suck? This. This is why I'm on the side of the Sentinels.
> But if we're gonna be serious....
Well, I'll see how long I can manage it, anyway.
> Plenty of people did get upset that Daredevil killed someone; I'm just saying that pretty much no in-character reaction would be "DD killed an Avenger!" And I include a hypothetical PR-rehabbed Norman Osborn on that side of matters.
Yeah, I'm probably the first person to make that argument, and even that was done in trolling mock-outrage. The most you'd likely see on the subject is some kind of "look at what he could have been if he'd been kept on his medication", which he apparently hadn't been since after Secret Invasion.
> Speaking of whom...I'm not really seeing the point of having Norman apparently partner up with what's left of HYDRA/HAMMER as the December solicits seem to promise. I suppose they're running with the idea that he knows all sorts of classified info from his government work, but it's really unclear how that will connect with the tattoo-cult story they were setting up in the Spider-books.
I've only read the first issue of his miniseries so far, so have no idea how that ended, and until the upcoming issues are out, it's hard to say if Norman's going to be operating in some manner of legitimate, sanctioned way, or if he's becoming The Kingpin of Super-Criminal Organisations. But Bendis' interviews on the subject suggest that we're less in for crazy-evil Norman, and more of him trying to be the "I could have fixed the world" Norman.
So the potential there is for Steve Rogers, who just want the Avengers to be what they always used to be, but now finds himself sitting in the job once held by Fury/Tony/Norman, and forced to walk into a more complicated than he's comfortable with world of moral compromises in the name of the greater good, to now both have internal friction with the leaders of his two Avengers teams, Luke Cage and Tony Stark, both of whom want to reform and modernise the concept of the team, but in totally different ways, Cage's more street-level focused approach, and Tony's belief that Super-human Registration and The Initiative were right, and then there's Norman with his rival Avengers team, fighting to fix the world and keep it safe through the means of Peace Through Tyranny, Take No Prisoners, if only he can keep from flipping out and ruining everything he's built yet again. Throw in the wild-card of Wonder Man and his Revengers trying to abolish the concept of the Avengers by punching them until they disband FOREVER, while the public and government support is divided between the various groups, and you could run the books for a couple of years off this "gang wars" theme.
But throwing Hydra and the Hand into the HAMMER mix is...weird, and you're right, I'm not sure how that's going to work. Both groups have apparently had their leadership assassinated, but hasn't the Kingpin taken over the Hand since Shadowland? I can't see Fisk working for Norman, and while Hydra haven't really had any ideology beyond world-domination and the abandonment of individuality in the service of Strucker's cult of personality, I guess maybe they could be attaching itself to a new leader capable of bringing about the world they want, but the Hand's apocalyptic demon-worship is totally at odds with the entire HAMMER ethos.
> I do think it's bizarrely dumb for DD to join the Avengers as if nothing happened. Look at the last time they let in a red-clad superhero with a tendency to go mental and/or be possessed by powerful demonic entities.....
Cripes, yeah. If he's really back, Scott Lang could flip out and become Myrmidon again at any moment, couldn't he?
Wait, I'm just being silly there. Clearly you were really talking about Spider-Man.
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