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America's Captain 
Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,502
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,100
Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 at 03:02:19 pm EDT (Viewed 61 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 at 01:10:21 pm EDT (Viewed 70 times)



    Quote:
    Rachel was supposed to master her Phoenix powers contrary to the Earth-616 version of her mother because she was coming from a world where mutant genocide was already a reality and where she had been brainwashed to behave as a mutant hunter.



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    It was before the X-Factor retcon making the Phoenix Force an autonomous entity.


Wow - I had forgotten the fact that originally the Phoenix was simply Jean at her full potential. Retcons mess with my head. I have a tendency either to remember the original story and forget the retcon, or else remember the retcon and forget the original story.


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    Rachel was the new Phoenix because she was the biological daughter of the Jean Grey of her timeline and, from the ashes of tragedy (Days of Future Past & Dark Phoenix), a new Phoenix would rise, a woman who would learn to control the power.



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    That's why she was so gloomy in her first appearances and, why she became much more optimistic in Excalibur.



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    I think that Rachel Summers is a classic character in her own right since she was created by Claremont & Byrne and not one of the second hand ersatz that appeared later (such as Hope Summers).


I have to say that where the X-Men are concerned, Chris Claremont & John Byrne have at least the same stature as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Higher stature, actually, I think. It was the 1975 version that conquered comicdom. The 1963 version had struggled to stay in the spinner racks.


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      Quote:
      1. Has the X-Men gotten along fine without Jean? No.



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    Of course, they have : from 1980 to 1986, the X-Men book was an excellent comics and Jean Grey was nowhere around.


Entirely true.


    Quote:
    Even after Jean Grey's return in 1986, there was nearly no interaction between the X-Men team & the X-Factor team until the 1989 Inferno crossover.


I never saw the point of the original X-Factor team. I was a fan of the Champions (prominently featuring Ice Man and the Angel) which debuted in 1975. I was also a fan of the Beast being a part of the Avengers comic, a scenario which also, incidentally, had its start in 1975. (I never quite realized how cool 1975 was. I was 14 that year. By contrast, 1986 was a big downer. Except for Superman's Pal, but that story would be a digression into the Ralph Snart phenomenon, which is off topic here, so forget I mentioned it.)


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    During 9 years, the X-Men were perfectly fine without Jean Grey appearing in the book.


Entirely true.


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    Much more than Jean Grey herself, it is the Phoenix Force which is always making a comeback and I am fed up ad nauseam to see it again.


Yup - me too. But I never know exactly what to do with my attitude toward things like this. I'm also fed up with pretty much all of the villains Stan and Jack created. I've simply seen them too many times. Yet I don't think it's reasonable for me to expect Marvel to stop using these villains.


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    Cyclops & the other Phoenix Five killing Xavier was the last straw that broke the camel's back.


Yeah, but it seems like Xavier's schtick is to repeatedly die. It's as if martyrdom were one of his super powers.


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    Contrary to what you are thinking, it is the Phoenix which will come back, not Silver Age Jean Grey trying to reinvent herself.



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    I am certain of that and, again, everybody will be very, very disappointed.



    Quote:
    It is only a commercial gimmick because of the 2018 Dark Phoenix movie.


You're right, of course.






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