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Post By
Menshevik

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,413
In Reply To
America's Captain 
Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,715
Subj: Re: Of course...
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 at 11:29:51 am EDT (Viewed 54 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Of course...
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 at 06:45:55 am EDT (Viewed 53 times)



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      Also, wouldn't writing a good "old school" Wolverine be the opposite of "jumping the shark", so why should adding something new to Wolverine even be a necessary criterion?



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    Your question confuses me. Writing a good "old school" Wolverine would seem to POSSIBLY exclude the adding of something new to Wolverine. Granted, the two concepts - old school versus novelty - can certainly be combined organically, but only by a careful and thoughtful writer. Handled recklessly, the element most likely to jump the shark would be the novelty, not the old school elements.


Exactly. But it is not my question that causes the confusion, Grey Gargoyle's argument does. The common denominator of the various definitions of "jumping the shark" is the introduction of one or more unwanted novelties, in the case of Wolverine e.g. an origin story where there used to be none. So if you don't add anything to Wolverine's character it would be self-evident that there is a smaller likelyhood for Wolverine to jump the shark than if you did. Claiming that Byrne, Davis and David did not add anything to Wolverine's character is IMO a bizarre tactic to adopt in the context of this thread and when griping that they did not know how to write Wolverine and simultaneously contending that only Chris Claremont did know. If CC got it right the first time round, his successors did not need to change anything, to make any additions.


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      Finally, the Claremontian Wolverine is to a large extent John Byrne's baby due to his co-plotting during the CC/JB run. It was due to Byrne's influence that his fellow Canadian Logan gradually took centre stage and developed his familiar personality (Len Wein wanted to make Colossus the star of the book and Dave Cockrum obviously favoured Nightcrawler).



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    True. And Claremont favored Sprite. Byrne had the right instincts here. Wolverine was undeniably the natural star. But he needed a foil, which Scott provided. Scott was a very important element in Wolverine's early success as a character.


You must the only person I know who still thinks of Kitty as "Sprite" (even when she still had that as her official code-name most people in-story and most readers referred to her by her civilian ID). \:\-\)

But seriously, I would say that one of Claremont's strengths as a writer was that he did not have one obvious favourite but managed to stay interested in most of the characters he wrote. One can say that he tended to favour the female characters, but that did not mean that he neglected the male ones (just look at what he did with Charles and Magnus) and the objects of his concentrations of effort tended to change. During the first run with Cockrum and also the one with Byrne he thus switched the focus of attention between Jean (whom he made the first cosmic-level heroine of the Marvel Universe), Ororo and later also Kitty Pryde. One very noticeable Claremontism for instance was to allow most newcomers to shine (often at the expense of the established X-Men) pretty soon after their introduction, which is one of the reasons why some of the later characters became enduringly popular and more prominent than many of the older ones in many X-adaptations.

I'd also say that the foil thing worked both ways, even if it ultimately benefitted Wolverine more. But Cyclops also needed a foil, someone to have disagreements and arguments with to be interesting, and there Wolverine came in handy when Professor X was out in space or believed to be dead. And lest we forget, the Professor and Logan also acted as each other's foils during the 1980s...





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