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Author
Philmer-Ken






Ok these questions may seem very minor....but....

The Fantastic four were staying with the Avengers after the first Secret Wars Right? And then they built Four Freedoms Plaza because the Baxter Building had been destroyed? If thats true then WHY on earth does Reed say "But I've had the Baxter Buildings interdemensional sensors on the lookout for the beyonder ever since the battleworld idiocy"? The Baxter Building had been destroyed before the Secret wars....Right?

Next....when Xavier is looking into the Beyonders mind and he's "Showing him something" There are 8 shadowed figures standing there....but the royal family is just 6....was that intentional do you think? maybe to show he comes fromt he inhumans and not to show just the royal family?
And...does it seem that theres some mental chatting happening between Xavier and Blackbolt at the end of the scene with them on the moon.....it almost appears as if theres more to be read into that.

When they confront the Beyonder on top of the "Baxter Building" they tell him he has no right to interfere in the species evolution...then make the comment "It's our species" (Note Black Bolt is standing with them) when he tells them that they Interfere.....since when is it better to this group to expell a creature with Power....didn't Xavier open his school to train people in the use of their powers for the greater good? Isn't Franklin Richards on par with the power level of the Beyonder (Or at least somehwere close to it) he's not being sent to the galaxy of Naph'leham......so what gives Reed? And I can't see Blackbolt being that passive on sending one of his people away....he's very protective of his people and would never allow the "Team" to decide what to do if the Beyonder is a true Inhuman.....he would deal with that with his council...the royal family, and make his own decision.

Um....Dr Strange has a fantasy with Wanda? PLEASE! Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

Iron Men and woman everywhere? Who's dream is that supposed to be out of the group standing there?

Namor say what? "And quite an (Should it really be An?) %^$#ing idiot" Would Namor really speak like that?

So Ultimately my guess as to the idea of the entire thing is this: The Beyonder is an inhuman from the future. Obviously he was questioning how Blackbolt could still be alive after all this time.....and being that this issue didn't seem like it was really showing anything besides the fact that the Illuminati has been active in marvels history for a while.....which would be silly if showing this was not to a point. I hope this issue will be relivant in the future....maybe the idea is that the Beyonder will be present sometime soon in the Inhumans future...getting ready to enter the Mists.

Also....someone in another post said the Beyonder died in Annihilation....can someone tell me where that was? I read the entire thing and I guess missed it....so I was hoping for someone to tell me so I can check it out.

Thanks....tell me what your thought were on this.

Philmer-Ken



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Michael




>
>
> Ok these questions may seem very minor....but....
>
> The Fantastic four were staying with the Avengers after the first Secret Wars Right? And then they built Four Freedoms Plaza because the Baxter Building had been destroyed? If thats true then WHY on earth does Reed say "But I've had the Baxter Buildings interdemensional sensors on the lookout for the beyonder ever since the battleworld idiocy"? The Baxter Building had been destroyed before the Secret wars....Right?
>
It was destroyed after Secret Wars but shortly before Secret Wars II. Obviously, this takes place before it was destroyed.
Michael


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
BlakGard




> Ok these questions may seem very minor....but....
>
> The Fantastic four were staying with the Avengers after the first
> Secret Wars Right? And then they built Four Freedoms Plaza because
> the Baxter Building had been destroyed? If thats true then WHY on
> earth does Reed say "But I've had the Baxter Buildings
> interdemensional sensors on the lookout for the beyonder ever since
> the battleworld idiocy"? The Baxter Building had been destroyed
> before the Secret wars....Right?

No. The Baxter Building was "destroyed" in Fantastic Four #278-279, after Secret Wars (between #264 and 265) and just before Secret Wars II (#281-288).
____________________




Posted with Netscape Navigator 8.1.3 on Windows XP
Long Time Comic Book Fan




> >
> > Ok these questions may seem very minor....but....
> >
> > The Fantastic four were staying with the Avengers after the first Secret Wars Right? And then they built Four Freedoms Plaza because the Baxter Building had been destroyed? If thats true then WHY on earth does Reed say "But I've had the Baxter Buildings interdemensional sensors on the lookout for the beyonder ever since the battleworld idiocy"? The Baxter Building had been destroyed before the Secret wars....Right?
> >
> It was destroyed after Secret Wars but shortly before Secret Wars II. Obviously, this takes place before it was destroyed.
> Michael

Hmmm...But if we are to assume that when the illuminati come across the beyonder's little make believe world, and he's doing the scene with Spiderman, luke cage and Iron fist, from secret wars II (when the beyonder turns a building into gold...) then that would suggest that bendis is saying that this part of the issue is what secret wars II always was...But the trouble with this 'logic' is that in secret wars II as you've already pointed out, the baxter building was long gone. Ergo they shouldn't have been able to land their ship on the baxter building in this scene... :-/

And that's without going into all the ongoing plot strands that spun off from secret wars II, (like for instance Spidey taking the gold notebook from the building turned to gold, and keeping it in his apartment for months afterwards...Are we then suppossed to believe that these spiderman issues were also 'not real' in marvel continuity...Heck why doesn't Bendis just create his own version of the marvel universe, if he's not going to take seriously any other writers work but his own?

This just sums up to me what's wrong with Marvel these days. It's either ineffectual/incompetent editing, or editorial cowardness on their part from not wanting to rein in their 'star' writers...I can just picture the scene...

"Hey Mr Bendis...sorry to interrupt but I think this issue contradicts these 12 issues here..."

BENDIS: "But I wrote it."

"Oh...Okay I see your point...sorry to disturb you Mr Bendis"

*rhe* The really annoying thing is I really, REALLY, wanted to like this issue, as Secret wars is what got me into Marvel in the first place. (Through the UK reprints...)and even seeing Reed in the old 'Byrne' style uniform, brought back some nostalgia...But jeez... What a waste!...Especially as given the artwork was really nice...

LTCBF




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Clea Lover




>
>
> Ok these questions may seem very minor....but....
>
> The Fantastic four were staying with the Avengers after the first Secret Wars Right? And then they built Four Freedoms Plaza because the Baxter Building had been destroyed? If thats true then WHY on earth does Reed say "But I've had the Baxter Buildings interdemensional sensors on the lookout for the beyonder ever since the battleworld idiocy"? The Baxter Building had been destroyed before the Secret wars....Right?
>
> Next....when Xavier is looking into the Beyonders mind and he's "Showing him something" There are 8 shadowed figures standing there....but the royal family is just 6....was that intentional do you think? maybe to show he comes fromt he inhumans and not to show just the royal family?
> And...does it seem that theres some mental chatting happening between Xavier and Blackbolt at the end of the scene with them on the moon.....it almost appears as if theres more to be read into that.
>
> When they confront the Beyonder on top of the "Baxter Building" they tell him he has no right to interfere in the species evolution...then make the comment "It's our species" (Note Black Bolt is standing with them) when he tells them that they Interfere.....since when is it better to this group to expell a creature with Power....didn't Xavier open his school to train people in the use of their powers for the greater good? Isn't Franklin Richards on par with the power level of the Beyonder (Or at least somehwere close to it) he's not being sent to the galaxy of Naph'leham......so what gives Reed? And I can't see Blackbolt being that passive on sending one of his people away....he's very protective of his people and would never allow the "Team" to decide what to do if the Beyonder is a true Inhuman.....he would deal with that with his council...the royal family, and make his own decision.
>
> Um....Dr Strange has a fantasy with Wanda? PLEASE! Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

I don't think that was Wanda. It's a woman named Victoria Bently she was seeing Dr. Strange after Clea left for the Dark Dimension.

>
> Iron Men and woman everywhere? Who's dream is that supposed to be out of the group standing there?
>
> Namor say what? "And quite an (Should it really be An?) %^$#ing idiot" Would Namor really speak like that?
>
> So Ultimately my guess as to the idea of the entire thing is this: The Beyonder is an inhuman from the future. Obviously he was questioning how Blackbolt could still be alive after all this time.....and being that this issue didn't seem like it was really showing anything besides the fact that the Illuminati has been active in marvels history for a while.....which would be silly if showing this was not to a point. I hope this issue will be relivant in the future....maybe the idea is that the Beyonder will be present sometime soon in the Inhumans future...getting ready to enter the Mists.
>
> Also....someone in another post said the Beyonder died in Annihilation....can someone tell me where that was? I read the entire thing and I guess missed it....so I was hoping for someone to tell me so I can check it out.
>
> Thanks....tell me what your thought were on this.
>
> Philmer-Ken
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
pariscub





>
> I don't think that was Wanda. It's a woman named Victoria Bently she was seeing Dr. Strange after Clea left for the Dark Dimension.
>
Actually, it IS Wanda... her heardress is on the night table.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
pariscub




I think most of the story is the Beyonder's fantasy, a rehearsal for his real arrival on Earth. That's the only way for the whole story to make sense.

And if he's an Inhuman, he definitely comes from the future, which would explain why Black Bolt doesn't know him.

However, if it happens before his arrival on Earth in SWII, he shouldn't have human form, or if he has, he should look like Captain America as he started by taking Steve's form in SWII. The blakc-haired look came later.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
SanctumSanctorumComix





> > Um....Dr Strange has a fantasy with Wanda? PLEASE! Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
>
> I don't think that was Wanda. It's a woman named Victoria Bently she was seeing Dr. Strange after Clea left for the Dark Dimension.
>

Two things of note:

1) It's Wanda. Look at the night stand next to her. That's Scarlet Witch's headdress.

I kinda secretly hoped Doc and Wanda would "hook up" one of these days.
OK. That's MY hang up.

;-)

But as far as "ULTIMATE FANTASIES" go, for STRANGE... that's pretty dumb.

2) Victoria Bentley and Strange NEVER hooked up.
She first appeared BEFORE Clea was ever introduced.
You're thinking of MORGANNA BLESSING.
While VICTORIA BENTLEY (another woman I would have liked to see DOC have a relationship with) has ALWAYS loved Strange (since she first appeared in Strange Tales # 114 - only a few issues after STRANGE himself), he has always looked upon her as a friend.

MORGANNA BLESSING on the other hand (whom I never liked as his "significant other") dated STRANGE after CLEA left him (due to the fact that Clea sensed how much Morganna loved Doc).

That's all.
Minor correction.

;-)


Tamam Shud!

~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix

The "SANCTUM-onious" One!




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on MacOS X
James




> I think most of the story is the Beyonder's fantasy, a rehearsal for his real arrival on Earth. That's the only way for the whole story to make sense.
>
> And if he's an Inhuman, he definitely comes from the future, which would explain why Black Bolt doesn't know him.
>
> However, if it happens before his arrival on Earth in SWII, he shouldn't have human form, or if he has, he should look like Captain America as he started by taking Steve's form in SWII. The blakc-haired lok came loater.

Bendis is a ego manic.I don't think he has any respect for what came before.He would not be at Marvel if not for being friends Joe Quesada.Remumber he had a fit becuase DC didn't want to do a Batman Daredevl crossover.I also remumber Kurt Busiek said something about how Woverine didn't fit with the Avnegers.And JLAing it would not work.Bendis got mad and had a fit and jumped all over Kurt.Who I think is a better writer then Bendis will ever be.As far as writing the Avengers go.He thinks he's a better writer then Frank miller on Daredevl.And thinks hes the next Stan Lee.He even has the nerve to compare himself with Stan Lee.Tell me that's not ego right there.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Roxx




Hey all,

I don't post here often, but watch. \:\-\)

I just read issue 3, but I really just had to express how much I HATED IT.

As soon as I heard Xavier make his surprise announcement. And it was a surprise, on that page.

The Beyonder an Inhuman? Talk about COMPLETELY missing the creator of the character, Jim Shooter's point. It just trashed the creator of the characters origin, and viewpoint 100% utterly and completely.

That soooo is not what the character of the Beyonder was about.

This also reminds me of that whole Beyonder Kosmos debacle. Which last year or so I remember on Byrne's board, mentioning how a creator then, who had a grudge against Shooter, took it out on his character, the Beyonder. Which probably explains what happened to the character. And how that made no sense either. And it did seem mean spirited back then.
Anyway I just read issue 3, and UTTERLY HATED IT!

I just thought the original concept of the character was a great idea. And it's a shame, the character hasn't been handled well ever since, in others hands.

And while I did mention Jim Shooter, check out his Valiant Solar run, the first 15 issues. To read how he handles all powerful type characters. I think he always handled them well, in a way other creators never could.

I look back on this issue, as a big disappointment in a comic book. And the first in quite a while to this degree. I enjoyed the One-shot and the first two issues of this mini-series. I was also hyped when I heard the Beyonder would be in issue 3. So that for me makes it even more of a disappointment.

But this for me was a total washout of a great character idea, and two writers in Bendis, and Reed who clearly did not do there research, or just missed the point entirely of what this character was and should be about, and the potential the character originally had.

At this point Bendis and Reed totally dropped the ball. And worse, this probably relegates the character into something not special at all anymore. And a status that will probably stick with the Beyonder from now on.

The only good thing is maybe with this type of expose, he'd get a Marvel Legends figure. Which would be cool. But that's about it.



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 1.5.0.12 on Windows XP
Century: Your Alien Hero




...that in the interviews promoting this issue, they talked about "repairing" the Beyonder, and "putting him back out there as a useable character".

> Hey all,
>
> I don't post here often, but watch. \:\-\)
>
> I just read issue 3, but I really just had to express how much I HATED IT.
>
> As soon as I heard Xavier make his surprise announcement. And it was a surprise, on that page.
>
> The Beyonder an Inhuman? Talk about COMPLETELY missing the creator of the character, Jim Shooter's point. It just trashed the creator of the characters origin, and viewpoint 100% utterly and completely.
>
> That soooo is not what the character of the Beyonder was about.
>
> This also reminds me of that whole Beyonder Kosmos debacle. Which last year or so I remember on Byrne's board, mentioning how a creator then, who had a grudge against Shooter, took it out on his character, the Beyonder. Which probably explains what happened to the character. And how that made no sense either. And it did seem mean spirited back then.

Indeed, the "Kosmos" explanation involved Galactus, Death and all the other cosmic powers taking a dive and "pretending" to be less powerful than the Beyonder because....uh....it doesn't make sense.

And of course, the "Shooter grudge" also played out in far more mean-spirited ways in Byrne's work on Star Brand.

> Anyway I just read issue 3, and UTTERLY HATED IT!
>
> I just thought the original concept of the character was a great idea. And it's a shame, the character hasn't been handled well ever since, in others hands.
>
> And while I did mention Jim Shooter, check out his Valiant Solar run, the first 15 issues. To read how he handles all powerful type characters. I think he always handled them well, in a way other creators never could.

It's yet another one of those examples of a character whose original concept was simple enough, and worked well enough, that every attempt to revise who and what he is has been a terribly misguided idea.

> I look back on this issue, as a big disappointment in a comic book. And the first in quite a while to this degree. I enjoyed the One-shot and the first two issues of this mini-series. I was also hyped when I heard the Beyonder would be in issue 3. So that for me makes it even more of a disappointment.
>
> But this for me was a total washout of a great character idea, and two writers in Bendis, and Reed who clearly did not do there research, or just missed the point entirely of what this character was and should be about, and the potential the character originally had.
>
> At this point Bendis and Reed totally dropped the ball. And worse, this probably relegates the character into something not special at all anymore. And a status that will probably stick with the Beyonder from now on.
>
> The only good thing is maybe with this type of expose, he'd get a Marvel Legends figure. Which would be cool. But that's about it.

That's about all we could get from it. The chances of some other writer seeing the issue and getting inspired to restore the Beyonder to the original concept are pretty slim.

Strangely, there's also a lot of "just doesn't fit anywhen" about the issue, given that Xavier was walking at this time, and the Beyonder didn't take that particular human form until Secret Wars 2 #3. And yet the issue gives a weird sort-of implication that Secret Wars 2 entirely took place on the Beyonder's asteroid in a fake city with fake people, right down to the Illuminati interrupting the Heroes for Hire/gold building scene from #2. And yet if they ARE trying to say that, it can't possibly work.

Of course, I already knew they were ruining the Beyonder when I bought the issue for the art alone, and then they go and cheese me/myself/Century off even more with Strange's "perfect world". For the love of Zod, enough with people wanting to sleep with the Witch already. There isn't someone from his series who it'd have made sense for Strange to want?


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