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Author
TJ Burns




The thread below discussing Avengers membership got me to thinking about how open ended the teams have been lately. There are several people that have served terms with the Avengers lately I genuinely don't know if we count as members anymore! To wit:

Nova - Does his one-mission case as a Secret Avenger include him as a member now, or was he just an ally called in by Cap? I think that the roster in Avengers Roll Call included him.

Jewel - Is Jessica an Avenger with Cage's team, or was she just hanging out? No idea, but I think the Avengers Roll Call included her.

Prince of Orphans - John Aman spent more time with the Secret Avengers than Nova, was called in by Cap as Nova's replacement specifically, but isn't on the roster in Avengers Roll Call. Wikipedia calls him an Avenger. Shouldn't he be?

Shang-Chi - Acted as a Secret Avenger against his father, and has been aiding Spider-Man recently, but isn't on the Avengers Roll Call roster but is listed as one on Wikipedia. Member or not?

Skaar - Was clearly an agent of Captain America's infiltrating the Dark Avengers, but does that make him a full-on Avenger? He's not on the Roll Call or Wikipedia.

Speedball - Robbie was a staff member at Avengers Academy, but never served with any Avengers team otherwise. Is he a member?

Lightspeed - She's a teacher's assistant at Avengers Academy, but never was an Avenger. Does that give her Avengers status?

Sharon Carter - Wikipedia states she's a Secret Avengers MEMBER, while I see her as being more of a liasion like Maria Hill or Victoria Hand. Which is it?

At any rate, it'd be nice to see this clarified in story sometime... as well as what Avengers Academy students count as!


TJB


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    The thread below discussing Avengers membership got me to thinking about how open ended the teams have been lately. There are several people that have served terms with the Avengers lately I genuinely don't know if we count as members anymore! To wit:



    Quote:
    Nova - Does his one-mission case as a Secret Avenger include him as a member now, or was he just an ally called in by Cap? I think that the roster in Avengers Roll Call included him.

It did, and he is.


    Quote:
    Jewel - Is Jessica an Avenger with Cage's team, or was she just hanging out? No idea, but I think the Avengers Roll Call included her.

It lists her as "Former Avenger," which is mostly dead ones and traitors, but a few "living" ones like Jocasta, Bucky, Reed Richards.


    Quote:
    Prince of Orphans - John Aman spent more time with the Secret Avengers than Nova, was called in by Cap as Nova's replacement specifically, but isn't on the roster in Avengers Roll Call. Wikipedia calls him an Avenger. Shouldn't he be?

He should, imo. But yeah, he's omitted from the Roll Call. He seemed like a member before Shang-Chi.


    Quote:
    Shang-Chi - Acted as a Secret Avenger against his father, and has been aiding Spider-Man recently, but isn't on the Avengers Roll Call roster but is listed as one on Wikipedia. Member or not?

More of an Avenger than Flux.


    Quote:
    Skaar - Was clearly an agent of Captain America's infiltrating the Dark Avengers, but does that make him a full-on Avenger? He's not on the Roll Call or Wikipedia.

I think that story came out too late to be included in Roll Call.


    Quote:
    Speedball - Robbie was a staff member at Avengers Academy, but never served with any Avengers team otherwise. Is he a member?

    Lightspeed - She's a teacher's assistant at Avengers Academy, but never was an Avenger. Does that give her Avengers status?

I doubt it. The Academy is listed separately in Roll Call.


    Quote:
    Sharon Carter - Wikipedia states she's a Secret Avengers MEMBER, while I see her as being more of a liasion like Maria Hill or Victoria Hand. Which is it?

She was said to be a liaison... but she's the boss' GF, so... ya know...




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Silver




Powerwoman was officially a member of Luke's team, no question about that.

Can't count Skaar as an Avenger, just an ally because of the whole Dark Avengers affair.

Good point on the Secret Avengers characters. Nova might have only been around for one mission, but it was a 6 issue mission. Problem with having those long stories with dual use characters. If Nova wasn't destined to "die" he would have stuck around in Secret. Using the old Jocasta rule, think Prince and Shang have to count as allies only. I think we do need an official ruling on Sharon.

Avengers Academy is another problem. Lightspeed probably isn't anymore official than the other students. Stumped on Speedball, depends if the avenging actions of the other teachers is a reservist obligation or not.


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TJ Burns





Here's the thing about the Prince of Orphans: Cap specifically called him Nova's replacement and he worked with the team through more issues than Nova did. We almost have to count him... and I'm for counting Skaar since he joined EXACTLY the same as the Red Hulk did.


TJB


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Dane whitman




Nt


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Unstable Molecule


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Ditto. Regarding the Secret Avengers - if the fact that they were Avengers was a secret, that makes them unofficial in my mind - in other words, they never were Avengers.

I'd love to go back to the days of government sanction, Avengers ID cards and stipends. It made it look like an honor and a privilege to be an Avenger, rather than a "Hey, me too!" thing.




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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The Black Guardian

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    Quote:
    Ditto. Regarding the Secret Avengers - if the fact that they were Avengers was a secret, that makes them unofficial in my mind - in other words, they never were Avengers.

They were never really secret. We saw them hanging with the other Avengers.


    Quote:
    I'd love to go back to the days of government sanction, Avengers ID cards and stipends. It made it look like an honor and a privilege to be an Avenger, rather than a "Hey, me too!" thing.

The Avengers always goes sour when the government gets involved. And there are still ID cards and stipends.




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    Quote:
    and I'm for counting Skaar since he joined EXACTLY the same as the Red Hulk did.

Not the same way, Skaar helped out on a mission then disappeared. Rulk helped out on a mission and was then invited to join the team, Ross stuck around and even stood on a roster reveal page. We can't even figure out which Avengers team Skaar would technically have been on if he was considered an avenger.


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TJ Burns





Actually, Rulk was working for Cap for a while in his own book and once with the Secret Avengers before he turned up in the main title... so, yeah, like Skaar. And Skaar didn't "disappear", he got sent to help out Cage with the Thunderbolts program.


TJB


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ALANNORTON42




I've been waiting for a post like this. My reply tot eh Avengers below are that

NOVA is an Avenger and in the beginning he was more of on call. That was the purpose of the Secret Avengers. He was offered membership in I am an Avenger limited series, where he see Spiderman and tells him the news.

JEWEL: I thought she had status in New Avengers #49 when they were shown in a splash page searching for their daughter. I also thought it was more official in Avengers #1 vol 4 when Commander Rogers summoned everyone and told them he wanted them on his team.

PRINCE OF ORPHANS: Old ally of Commander Rogers I think he was a member in issue #6 of Secret Avengers. If I remember correctly the issue was solicited as a new member joining. But with what is going on in Defenders, I'm not sure what is going to happen to him.

SHANG CHI: I believe he became a member at teh end of Secret Avengers #10 and Commander Rogers referred to him as an Avengers I believe in Secret Avengers # 16. Plus John and Shang Chi were referred to as members when the team went after Valkyrie.

SPEEDBALL: I thought of him as a Avenger, he went off into battle witht he team. Since several members were also members to redeem themselves, I thought that was perfect for him. I also consider him and Justice reserve members.

AGENT 13: I thought of her as a member/liason. She led the team agaisnt Valkyrie, access to their computer sysytem and was even in their "roll call."

MARIA HILL: I consider her a member becasue she was appointed the teams leader.(even though she really didn't lead and as time went on she was used less and less.)

SKAAR: I considered him a member only becasue ghe yelled "Avengers Assemble!" I think he would be a perfect Secret Avenger, no one knows about him, his task is to go in and smash! Also seems ther will be a few Hulks around the team. Even though there is a rumor of getting rid of a certain Hulk.

RED SHE HULK: I wondered if she had status, she went off to battle with the rest of the team in Fear Itself #7 and even sttod with them at the end giving her dad a look of "you have a problem with this?"

SON OF SATAN: Is he considered a member? Though he denied it to the Thule, he did stand with the team when Cap brought in a few Avengers to arrest Venom III.

DOCTOR VOODOO: He was listedon the cover of New Avengers #6 as a possible Avenger who would die and his limited series had Avenger in the title. Was he a reserve member when Ironman was the top cop?

YOUNG AVENGERS: Hawkeye II, Patriot II, Hulkling, Wicccan and Speed I thought they were made Avengers in Avengers # vol 4 and they even referred to themselves as Avengers in I am an Avenger, I think the first issue. (that series could have been done better)

That would leave us with 99 Avengers who have been Active or reserve members (I count Spiderwoman who was a Skrull becasue they invited her to join and she servedfor almost 4 years our time and almost 1 yr Marvel time.

I would love to see Silver Surfer join and be the 100th member, yes he is in Defenders and they are starting to explore him more, but he also does hang out in Asgardia a lot to watch the egg.


ALANNORTON42




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