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Author
Hyperstorm




Has anyone else noticed that Captain America has engaging in cronyism is his management of the Avengers teams? It is something that has cropped up in the past, but has become especially pronounced during Brian Michael Bendis' run on the title. Promotions seem to be based more on perceived loyalty than actual qualifications.

For example:

-Hawkeye is made leader of the Secret Avengers despite the fact that it is unclear if he can even spell the words quiet or subtle. Aren't there Avengers who have actual training and practice in covert operations who would have made better choices?

-I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?

-Luke Cage has been given command of two teams despite his obvious lack of leadership ability. Leeroy Jenkins would be proud. He may be loyal muscle, but it is clear that the Peter Principle has caught up to him. Even the writers seem to acknowledge that Cage sucks as a leader since they consistently utilize the Sentry and later Dr. Strange as crutch characters whose sole job seems to be bailing the team out and protecting Luke Cage from the consequences of his actions.

Up until the late 1980's, the Avengers used extensive background checks and a team vote before handing out what are essentially very high level security clearances. Nowadays, it seems that Captain America is doling them out wily-nily on his own authority. Does anyone else see the problem here?


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TJ Burns





Well, someone finally addressed the elephant in the room. \:\) Seriously, Cap's been on this kick since Civil War at the latest, and I have noticed. It's how we end up with things like putting the Beast, who is easily the most easy to identify Avenger on the planet, on the covert team, when his entire contribution could be matched by, say, Mockingbird, who actually HAS covert training. If the past few years have proved anything, it's that the Avengers traditions have gone to seed under both Cap AND Tony's leadership.


TJB


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Has anyone else noticed that Captain America has engaging in cronyism is his management of the Avengers teams? It is something that has cropped up in the past, but has become especially pronounced during Brian Michael Bendis' run on the title. Promotions seem to be based more on perceived loyalty than actual qualifications.



    Quote:
    For example:



    Quote:
    -Hawkeye is made leader of the Secret Avengers despite the fact that it is unclear if he can even spell the words quiet or subtle. Aren't there Avengers who have actual training and practice in covert operations who would have made better choices?

Hawkeye is more than qualified to lead.


    Quote:
    -I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?

If you think Avengers requires anything special for membership, then you don't know the Avengers. Past members have been terrorists and criminals.


    Quote:
    -Luke Cage has been given command of two teams despite his obvious lack of leadership ability. Leeroy Jenkins would be proud. He may be loyal muscle, but it is clear that the Peter Principle has caught up to him. Even the writers seem to acknowledge that Cage sucks as a leader since they consistently utilize the Sentry and later Dr. Strange as crutch characters whose sole job seems to be bailing the team out and protecting Luke Cage from the consequences of his actions.

Luke is awesome and more than qualified.


    Quote:
    Up until the late 1980's, the Avengers used extensive background checks and a team vote before handing out what are essentially very high level security clearances. Nowadays, it seems that Captain America is doling them out wily-nily on his own authority. Does anyone else see the problem here?

These are all people of exemplary backgrounds.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Ancient One 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,832


Hawkeye...Yeah, that works for me. Don't forget, he spent his early years with one of the world's best covert operators, Black Widow. He also led the west coast team for a few years. And after the founding five and Cap, he has the most seniority.

But the other two...

Jessica Jones is a nothing character who really doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the book, and indeed is one of the many reasons I dropped the title a few years back.
But who created her? Yep, Bendis did. I don't know if he's getting any kickbacks from keeping her around, but god knows I can't think of another reason.

And who is the Marvel character Bendis would most like to date? That's right...Luke Cage.

If you're going to accuse anyone of cronyism...give Bendis the finger (double entendre intended).


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Hyperstorm




Regarding Hawkeye, standing next to someone skilled does not make you skilled and all of his previous appearances have him as a showboating loudmouth who always craves the spotlight. Not someone you want leading a team that does not officially exist.


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emerick man




j/k!

No. Seriously. Joking.

What did Cap see in her?! Maybe he should consider Maria Hill. Here's her action figure:



No wait that's Quake again. \:\)


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tobyboy




Hawkeye has always been seen as a capable leader as far as I can remember... and that's since Avengers No 44--the original Red Guardian/Black Widow/Bamboo Curtain story line back in the 60s. It depends on the writer.


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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,017




    Quote:
    -I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?


I think the intent of putting her on the team is to give the team the sort of emotionally heart created by The Chick character in most team fiction.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChick

However, for whatever reason Bendis just doesn't have it in him to truly write characters as archetypes. Perhaps doing so feels cartoony to him. Perhaps in his experience the people he knows sound and think much like himself, so can't quite buy someone talking in ways that clearly denote them as archetypes.

He does seem to see some value in those tropes as he uses characters whose superficial visual suggests they were put in to represent those archetypes. But he just can't quite seem to go through with it when it comes time to write the dialogue.

In any case, if you are going to put Spider-Man on the team, I tend to think he should be used in The Chick role. He seems to represent traditionally female values in a team setting, and is a cooler, more interesting example of The Chick archetype than Jessica Jones could ever be despite his physical gender.




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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


I agree, Hawkeye has the leadership capability. However, I think the point being made is whether or not he is the best to lead a covert squad. I have to say that he probably isn't... and that Mockinbird (who has the training, the contacts and already leads a covert operation with the WCA) would make more sense.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:
    Has anyone else noticed that Captain America has engaging in cronyism is his management of the Avengers teams? It is something that has cropped up in the past, but has become especially pronounced during Brian Michael Bendis' run on the title. Promotions seem to be based more on perceived loyalty than actual qualifications.



    Quote:
    For example:



    Quote:
    -Hawkeye is made leader of the Secret Avengers despite the fact that it is unclear if he can even spell the words quiet or subtle. Aren't there Avengers who have actual training and practice in covert operations who would have made better choices?


Hawkeye was a successful leader of a team of fugitive super villains.


    Quote:
    -I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?



My guess is Cap has a soft spot for girls who take it in their brown eye


    Quote:
    -Luke Cage has been given command of two teams despite his obvious lack of leadership ability. Leeroy Jenkins would be proud. He may be loyal muscle, but it is clear that the Peter Principle has caught up to him. Even the writers seem to acknowledge that Cage sucks as a leader since they consistently utilize the Sentry and later Dr. Strange as crutch characters whose sole job seems to be bailing the team out and protecting Luke Cage from the consequences of his actions.


I guess every leader has to have a start somewhere. I hate him in Thunderbolts though.



    Quote:
    Up until the late 1980's, the Avengers used extensive background checks and a team vote before handing out what are essentially very high level security clearances. Nowadays, it seems that Captain America is doling them out wily-nily on his own authority. Does anyone else see the problem here?


Wasn't he director of SHIELD? Is that still the case. If so isn't it his purview to decide who in the super hero community gets said clearance?




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:
    I agree, Hawkeye has the leadership capability. However, I think the point being made is whether or not he is the best to lead a covert squad. I have to say that he probably isn't... and that Mockinbird (who has the training, the contacts and already leads a covert operation with the WCA) would make more sense.


I think Hawkeye wouldn't be boastful in this situation. He was given a responsibility and usually when someone gives him a responsibility he excels at it. Since it's a special responsibility...he will take it seriously. If it was just run of the mill hero work he might get complacent, lazy and arrogant.

Hawkeye wants everyone to respect him. When people show him that respect and make a special point of it he tends to come through.






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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


True enough... you are right, when given a responsibility he does follow through. I just wonder who else on the Avengers would have been a better choice to lead a covert ops team... Mockingbird? Black Widow?


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MysteryMan





    Quote:
    Has anyone else noticed that Captain America has engaging in cronyism is his management of the Avengers teams? It is something that has cropped up in the past, but has become especially pronounced during Brian Michael Bendis' run on the title. Promotions seem to be based more on perceived loyalty than actual qualifications.



    Quote:
    For example:



    Quote:
    -Hawkeye is made leader of the Secret Avengers despite the fact that it is unclear if he can even spell the words quiet or subtle. Aren't there Avengers who have actual training and practice in covert operations who would have made better choices?



    Quote:
    -I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?



    Quote:
    -Luke Cage has been given command of two teams despite his obvious lack of leadership ability. Leeroy Jenkins would be proud. He may be loyal muscle, but it is clear that the Peter Principle has caught up to him. Even the writers seem to acknowledge that Cage sucks as a leader since they consistently utilize the Sentry and later Dr. Strange as crutch characters whose sole job seems to be bailing the team out and protecting Luke Cage from the consequences of his actions.



    Quote:
    Up until the late 1980's, the Avengers used extensive background checks and a team vote before handing out what are essentially very high level security clearances. Nowadays, it seems that Captain America is doling them out wily-nily on his own authority. Does anyone else see the problem here?





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Reverend Meteor




It seems like everyone always seems to be written as dumber or incompetent to showcase Cap's competence.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 13.0.1 on Windows 7
MysteryMan





    Quote:
    It seems like everyone always seems to be written as dumber or incompetent to showcase Cap's competence.





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
MysteryMan






    Quote:

      Quote:
      -I have read a few Avengers comics with Jessica Jones in them. Her contribution consisted of standing in the background holding a baby. How exactly is she qualified to be a Avenger in any standing?



    Quote:

    My guess is Cap has a soft spot for girls who take it in their brown eye


omigawd...that soooo wrong...lol


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