Just wondering about this... with all the things that happened with Wanda
during Children's Crusade and now over in Avengers vs X-men.. would you
consider Scarlet Witch to be the most powerful sorceress around...?

Would she be up for the title? Sorceress Supreme?

And what do you all think... Is the current Scarlet Witch more powerful then the current Dr. Strange? Is she more powerful then brother Voodoo?

I say YES to these but heck... i would easily say she is one of the most
powerful beings around LOL but then again I really really like her LOL

Scarlet Phoenix

Isn't she the Nexus Being or something like that?

Seems like Dr. Strange had pretty stringent and specific training from the guy that went before him and was given specific responsibilities to protect the earth against some specific threats. Wanda has been almost the opposite - she is self taught to a large extent except for some help from Agatha Harkness here and there and maybe a tip or two from that DC magician lady if that is cannon. And she has faced much more general threats as an Avenger and otherwise.

Strange has been moping and not been the Sorceror Supreme for a while now. I liked Brother Voodoo in that role but it didn't last very long, unfortunately. Wanda as a character is in quite a fix, because she's way too powerful to be a standard superhero, and she's not evil so she can't be a villain. Right now she's almost like a mystical being trapped on earth.

I think youre right. It's time for her to level up. Take away the lack of self control, add some skill, and let her really own her title, the Scarlet Witch. Maybe Scarlet Sorceress is even better. At any rate, it would give her a rightful place, and stop her from being such a wild card to be used and abused by writers as they see fit.

Her being Scarlet Witch and Strange being Sorcerer Supreme, separately, is better for all.

And Wanda needs to be taken away from everything magic. Magic has only ruined her.

I'm frustrated with Wanda right now. I thought Children's Crusade made great strides at restoring her reputation and - equally important - her power levels to the point of making her viable and useable as a character again. And then, in her very next appearance, they use her as a phenomenally powerful anti-Phoenix, thus continuing the bad habits of overpowering her. And that power creep started when she first resurrected Wonder Man, in my opinion.

I see her becoming like Hank Pym - where future writers can't help but portray her as she was in her darkest hour.

YEAH She is a Nexis being, She fought Lore (alternate Universe Wanda) due to that. Only other I can think of is Sise-Neg who popped in Dr. Strange books a few years ago. That Nexis being thing is supposed to be a big deal but it never really went any where. I remember a What If arc (Timequake) in which they touched on it but that was it.

> I see her becoming like Hank Pym - where future writers can't help but portray her as she was in her darkest hour.

Unless we make her Sorcerer Supreme!!! It only makes sense. She's on Mother Earth, why not have the SS be female?

I'm with you. She's best as a mutant with unreliable nonspecific hexes that are generally beneficial but sometimes backfire. That's an interesting ability to work into a story. When she's used in any way other than that, she's too powerful.

Demoting Strange is only a good plotline in a short term arc IMO.

First a bad luck Hex power, then magic, then choas magic, then nooooo Reality Warping... then what ever happened in the Childresn's Crusade. What back to just Magic again??????

Wanda has almost NO training in magic. She trained with Agatha Harkness for only about six issues. Strange and Mordo spent YEARS studying with the Anicent One. Clea was Strange's disciple for about a decade of issues. Jennifer Kale studied under Dakimh for years. Wanda simply doesn't have the required knowledge.

Michael

Until she was muddied with magic, everything she ever did could be explained by telekinesis. Originally, her "hexes" were just ignorant-speak for breaking things, moving things, exploding things, etc.

She randomly caused things to happen, this became altering proabilities for things to happen.

Byrne during his tenure of West-Coast Avengers thought about it and tried to explain her proability power by adding a chronal element, that allowed her hex to affect things in the past, to have the desired effect in the present, making her change things retroactivly.
She want an object to break apart? Then the weakpoints to achieve that appear.
And thanks to her power, those weakpoints always were there, can even appear in photographs, even if for an objective observer, they weren't.

Byrne explanation scared editors and writers or something and they blamed everything on Immortus leaving her power unexplained again.

After Children's crusade, she no longer had her powers boosted to the crazy levels that she couldn't control, but I believe the story ended right after that to where we didn't get clarification of what she could or couldn't do. I assumed she still had hex powers and some magic, but just not the blatant reality warping stuff.

That story did a good job of shifting some blame off of her.

I haven't read any Avengers vs X-Men to know what they're doing there. If they're linking her to the phoenix force, that just muddles things up worse.

Not really, no. In the Squadron Supreme's first appearance, the Avengers were intangible on the Squadron's world and one of Wanda's hexes made them tangible. Later on, at the start of Englehart's run, one of Wanda's hexes caused Gaza to briefly regain his sight. Wanda's powers were difficult to explain long before Agatha started teaching Wanda.

Michael

See, both of those things could be done telekinetically.

The "TimeQuake" storyline in 'What If?' revealed a number of other Nexus Beings as Franklin Richards, Vision, Odin, Phoenix* and Kang, meaning that all of them are people who would have a counterpart in every possible timeline and alternate reality.

* - I don't remember them making it very clear if they meant Jean Grey herself, or the Phoenix entity.

It was touched on again in the Scarlet Witch miniseries, that a Nexus Being would always have some kind of powers, but there could be all kinds of variations across the multiverse, resulting in her having to battle Lore, an evil version of herself with necromantic powers, a "dark predatory variant" who was travelling between realities, killing her alternate selves and taking their power.

You're absolutely right on the training thing, indeed, the whole point Strange was making during Disassembled was that she was wielding a power level she had never trained for or earned, and thus couldn't control, but perhaps more importantly, Strange may not be the Sorceror Supreme right now, but eventually, inevitably, the status quo will reset to it being him, and anyone else who takes up the role will be required to crash and burn, usually either in failure or in madness, forcing Strange to return and take the job back.

Look at all the times there's been a new Captain America/Iron Man/Thor or Batman, and how the story always ends with the original coming back. That Strange is a lower-profile character than them (and at this point, arguably lower-profile than the Scarlet Witch) who can't hold his own ongoing book anymore is unlikely to change this Law of Comics from being applied once again.

All that said, if they wanted to try giving her a series, or miniseries, (or, best of all, something teaming her with Vision, Quicksilver and Crystal) it would be a change from the repeated attempts to give Hawkeye/Ms Marvel/Moon Knight a solo book because this time it'll sell.

But at that level, telekinesis is no different than reality altering. This was one of the most annoying things about Rachel when she had her Phoenix powers- she could alter her teammates' clothes with her TK but it was never clear why she couldn't, for example, defeat the evil alternate-reality Iron Man by turning his armor into a leisure suit, or defeat the Warwolves by reshaping the ground into an Adamantium cage around them.

Michael

Personally I liked when Wanda had Agatha Harkness as her Mentor. I remember when she told Wanda that her powers where a result of Chaos Magic and from coming into contact to Chthon, if I remember right she said that if that never happened she would have been an energy wielder like her father. I remembered that when I read Age Of Apocalypse and Wanda gets killed off by Holocaust Any way with the whole Chaos Magic thing at least her powers seemed to go some where.And with all the Retcons and everything else they have thrown at Wanda who even knows what parts of what Agatha told her where real imagined planted projected or even just dreams.

The mantle of SS should not go to anyone who is just powerful and magical in nature. As the guardian to our realm, they need to have a strong grasp on many forms of magic and the various threats our world faces. SW didn't even really get her own powers. It doesn't seem like a good fit.

What about wiccan?
In the YA Children crusade special, in a posible future, her son Wiccan is the SS..
About yor cuestion..Not yet. Too recent from past sickness. But she is still young and could prepare for it

I love Wanda and always have. She is a pure Avengers archetype in my opinion.

I also don;t think sorcerer supreme is a title conveyed for pure power even if it is accompanied by magic related powers.

A significant part of Wanda's character is that she is very powerful, inconsistently confidant, to a varying extent Pietro's protectorate and not always completely understanding or in control of her powers.

That being said she also does not posses the understanding of the supernatural world and the threats we need to be safeguarded from that Stephen, Brother Voodoo or even Dr. Druid possess (possessed).

For her to become a true officiant regarding the supernatural would actually be a major shift in who she is. Yes we know she spent time with Agatha Harkness but that as as a pupil. She could take on this type of mantle but I need a few years of stories building towards it before it would feel natural.


ZZZZZZZZZ-Chief