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emerick man




[Depending how flippin' Marvel NOW messes up the Universe thing...]

A Namor and Marrina reunion, of any sort since her latest from the dead, should have happened - yesterday!

Anyone else want this [or has it been done elsewhere already]?
293
[And officially state that her honorary status means pretty much bupkiss at this point - even though she is alive again.]


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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


She did return briefly in the Dark Reign The List: X-Men one shot.


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Hank


Member Since: Fri Jul 01, 2011




    Quote:
    She did return briefly in the Dark Reign The List: X-Men one shot.


And Namor saw and talked to her when Blood Wraith impaled him and Namor's soul got trapped in the blade if I remember right.





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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,105


If she's alive, they should still be married. I agree this is a confrontation that needs to take place. I'd like to see him explain how he could so coldly behead her (I would have expected him to move heaven and earth to cure her).

Can you imagine if the Invisible Woman was turned into a rampaging monster by Norman Osborn, and Reed tore her head off and tossed it at Norman along with a witty rejoinder? Namor has a lot to answer for: killing his wife, attacking a sovereign nation, destroying that nation and killing hundreds, perhaps thousands. He is now officially unusable as a hero until this is dealt with.




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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SpikeyIceman




You're basing that on Human culture. Namor doesn't play by the same rules or moral code.


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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,105


I don't accept that. He was the monarch of a sovereign nation under the UN. Every western nation, along with most of Africa - should be rising against Namor as an international terrorist, considering what happened to Wakanda. And by extension, there's a case to be made by the UN against the X-Men as a terrorist organization, since Namor had been among them in the months before the attack.

As for the murder of Marrina - since she was a rampaging sea serpent at the time, I doubt the US authorities would pursue Namor for this cold murder. But by God, Marrina should!




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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AssemblyRequired





    Quote:
    I don't accept that. He was the monarch of a sovereign nation under the UN. Every western nation, along with most of Africa - should be rising against Namor as an international terrorist, considering what happened to Wakanda. And by extension, there's a case to be made by the UN against the X-Men as a terrorist organization, since Namor had been among them in the months before the attack.



    Quote:
    As for the murder of Marrina - since she was a rampaging sea serpent at the time, I doubt the US authorities would pursue Namor for this cold murder. But by God, Marrina should!



Is the current Alpha Flight Marrina the same Marrina from that disturbing one-shot? Or was that a clone, with Marrina's soul not present, a soul that got reincarnated with the rest of Alpha Flight?

Comics give me a headache sometimes.

We've also got the Marrina seen briefly during Busiek's Kang storyline. I wonder if we'll ever get any clarification on how they all connect.

I think Marrina has lots of untapped story potential. The Plodex are an interesting concept.



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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908



Ridiculous. If any action can only be judged based on cultural norms then there is no way to judge anyone for what they have done. Namor can't be judged. Cyclops can't be judged. I suppose that they figure their actions are fine so no one can tell them they are wrong?

Cultural norms can't be the overriding factor in terms of whether someone's actions are right or wrong.



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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


I read the Alpha Flight series and totally forgot about Marrina in that story. Yes, it is all very confusing but I agree there is great potential for future stories.


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    If she's alive, they should still be married. I agree this is a confrontation that needs to take place. I'd like to see him explain how he could so coldly behead her (I would have expected him to move heaven and earth to cure her).

Death ends marriage, even if the death is undone.

But she is alive, in the latest incarnation of Alpha Flight. Thsi is what emerick is talking about. They need to have a reunion. I wonder what Namor would think of the hipper, more aggressive Marrina.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Are you kidding me? Hello?! Raging monster? Namor has nothing to answer for in any culture.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


You ignore the fact that Marrina wanted to die. She was grateful Namor did it.




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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


In my culture we put down raging monsters... bears, dogs or other animals that threaten human beings. So if he is a raging monster then in my culture he should be destroyed with no trial... is that what you suggest?


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Hank


Member Since: Fri Jul 01, 2011



Marrina was way out of control that issue. Namor was happy with and Marrina was changed into a giant sea serpent. Namor flips I will give you that but she was on rampage, and he did what he had to do. I don't blame Namor for what he did to her. There are many other things Namor is responsible for that he needs to answer to. Oh according to wiki Marrina never really died she was in some magical coma put there by Llan the Sorcer.





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emerick man 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Had forgotten if she was a frankensteinish half clone or the real thing too. What with all the Hercules fixes (only) Alpha Flight thing after Chaos War. Checked my old PBP for details on her depressing 'other' death http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=xmb-2009092520165546 and yep it was un-credibly her mutated and spliced up by Director Osborn and beheaded by her upset hubby. Here's other links found while looking...

DR The List: X-Men #1
http://marvel.wikia.com/Dark_Reign:_The_List_-_X-Men_Vol_1_1
00 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_nc11_0001.jpg
PP http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0001.jpg

6 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0002.jpg
7 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0003.jpg
8 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0004.jpg
9 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0005.jpg
10 http://i.newsarama.com/images/drlistxmen001_int_0006.jpg
13 Fastball special.

21 attached

All of it on youtube (turn sound off):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OICPtvBSWVc

[Edit:]And http://www.savagecritic.com/reviews/abhay-wrote-a-quick-description-of-dark-reign-the-list-x-men-1-for-no-reason/





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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


Please note that my initial post regarding the cultural stuff was in response to Spikyiceman's response to The Black Guardian...

Black Guardian stated: "Can you imagine if the Invisible Woman was turned into a rampaging monster by Norman Osborn, and Reed tore her head off and tossed it at Norman along with a witty rejoinder? Namor has a lot to answer for: killing his wife, attacking a sovereign nation, destroying that nation and killing hundreds, perhaps thousands. He is now officially unusable as a hero until this is dealt with."

So my response regarding cultural norms was NOT simply dealing with Marrina (who was a rampaging monster). I was also considering the fact that Namor attacked a sovereign nation, killing hundreds, perhaps thousands.

I did misunderstand Black Guardian's next comment thinking that it had to do with Namor being the rampaging monster and not referring to Marrina as was intended.

However, it should be noted that some cultures venerate certain animals. I could certainly conceive of some cultures that would view a monster such as Marrina being venerated (in terms of Marvel Universe cultures anyway). Those cultures would then look down on Namor and consider him guilty. So, my point remains... I don't think cultural norms can really be a viable basis upon which to make judgements on some issues.




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Hank


Member Since: Fri Jul 01, 2011



I see your point but she never really dies, nor did the Avengers get mad at him, to be honest they were more upset that Namor triggered the Ebony Blade Curse on Dane Whitman.





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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 908


Totally agree... but the discussion was going beyond her "death" and examining Namor's other actions... and whether or not he can/should be held accountable for the Wakandan invasion.

BTW... I really enjoyed the original Marrina/Namor storyline in the Avengers. The biggest disappointment for me? It took Monica (Captain Marvel) out of circulation.


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    In my culture we put down raging monsters... bears, dogs or other animals that threaten human beings. So if he is a raging monster then in my culture he should be destroyed with no trial... is that what you suggest?

I'm not even suggesting it. EVERY culture puts down raging monsters without thought.




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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,105


Source? I don't recall Leviathan Marrina having the ability to speak. In fact, I think the Cuckoo's tried to read her mind and couldn't. What makes you say she wanted to die?




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Source? I don't recall Leviathan Marrina having the ability to speak. In fact, I think the Cuckoo's tried to read her mind and couldn't. What makes you say she wanted to die?

The leviathan was not her. In fact, the Cuckoos did read her mind and detected nothing remotely like her. It was all hate and hunger. She always expressed the wish the die rather than become that. It's what she spent all of her time trying to prevent.




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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,105


But the leviathan was her - it was mentioned several times in that dreadful one-shot. And unless she said or thought "please kill me" while in that state, we can't know whether she was desperate for help (and who better than the love of her life to help her?), suicidal, or pleased as all get out to be a leviathan. My original point is that if the the Invisible Woman was transformed, Reed would do anything to save her. Heck, if Sue was transformed, NAMOR would do anything to save her. But Marrina gets her head torn off and weaponized. Therefore, the newly resurrected Marrina needs to have a reckoning with her dearly beloved husband.




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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