Avengers >> View Thread

Author
Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012


Avengers Roster:

Hank Pym (Antman,Giantman, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Doctor Pym, Wasp II)
Wasp
Ironman
Thor
Hulk
CaptainAmerica
Hawkeye
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Hercules
Black Panther
Vision
BlackKnight
Black Widow
Swordsman (joined Avengers #20, membership taken away when discovered he betrayed them. Reformed and reinstated. Recommended full membership from Thor)
Mantis
Moondragon
Beast
Hellcat
Two Gun Kid (My thought he was granted Avenger status when he went into battle with Thor and Hawkeye. Possibly even Moondragon granted full status.)
Captain Marvel (Ms. MARVEL, Warbird)
Wonderman (Accepted on probationary member Avengers #9, betrayed team and status was taken away. Reinstated as probationary member after battle with Gravitron. )
Falcon
Jocasta
Tigra
She Hulk
Spectrum (Captain Marvel, Pulsar, Photon)
Starfox
Mockingbird
Iron Patriot (Ironman, War Machine) (Was told during first Secret Wars though on leave he was with the Avengers, this may have given him official status or just to clarify among the other heroes. It was revealed later on Prof Xavier and Reed Richards knew of Ironman's identity.)
Namor
Thing
Moon Knight
Doctor Druid
D-man
Mister Fantastic
Invisible Woman
Gilgamesh (Hero, Hercules, Forgotten One)
USAgent
Quasar
Espirita
Human Torch
Sersi
Spiderman
Stingray
Rage (status in question. When found out he was underage he had his membership downgraded to Avenger in Training. Later he hijacked a quinjet and he was expelled. It might have been reinstated after Morgan Le Fay battle.)
Sandman (left in a huff, has been stated in other posts he was only a reserve, never a full member. My thought an Avenger is an Avenger. Plus there were two times he status was upgraded to full when filling in during the substitute Avenger status was implemented. When the Avengers battled the Sinister Six Captain America offered him reinstatement. His mind was scrambled by the Wizard. This has never been addressed.)
Spider Woman (Madame Web, Arachne)
Living Lightning
Thunderstrike
Crystal
Darkhawk
Justice
Firestar
Triathalon (3D Man)
Silverclaw
Jack Of Hearts
Antman
Lion Heart

Cage
Wolverine
Ronin (Echo)
Sentry (does anyone know if his status was taken away for his role in Siege?)
Iron Fist
Doctor Strange
Ares
Captain America
Spiderwoman
Vision
Stature
Cho
Captain Britain
Protector (was his status taken away for his betrayal)
Red Hulk
Flux
Valkyrie
Antman
Shang Chi
Storm
Quake
Venom


Havok
Rogue
Sunfire
Cannonball
Sunspot
Manifold
Hyperion
Captain Universe
Smasher
Abyss
Ex Nihlo
Nightmask
Starbrand
Victor
Adam
Blade
Powerman
White Tiger

I listed, but wasn't sure of Cho and Stature due to there age. I didn't list Agent 13 and Agent Hill, thinking it was more of an assignment. Ironman (Teen Tony, though listed as honorary I thought had full status. I felt the original Captain Marvel was given reserve status.)


That gives them 100 members.


Mr Bojo


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Dane Whitman




Yep - a pretty much spot on list in my opinion. I find is hard to count Two-gun and Nova, but I have to give you credit for giving the swerve to the GoGs, Prince of Orphans and another Nova. I have literally never heard of Flux and Victor mind you. Would like to forget Machine Man, but I think he has to be counted and I did not spot him in your list. Could be Hickman has already retconned Abyss and Ex Nihilo which would be no bad thing. (My) jury is still out on anyone coming in on the new Mighty Avengers.


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Aragorn




I think Two-Gun's status got some additional credibility from the She-Hulk storyline, where somehow time was broke and she got to rescue one time traveller from the TVA and chose "the Avenger" (meaning Two-Gun). This saw Two-Gun brought forward to the future again when he appeared as a regular in her series. It shows at least she considered him a fellow Avenger.


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TJ Burns




The Guardians of the Galaxy having full status was confirmed in New Warriors #1, when the security system recognized Justice as the Guardians' Vance Astro. They had to be given full membership to avoid Gyrich freaking out... not that they ever used it.

Two-Gun's official Avengers status has been explained as a way to give him some sort of legal standing in the 20th Century. Either way, he's an Avenger officially and fully... and at SOME point, he will serve an active term as one, according to his personal timeline.

Hellcat's status is something of a nightmare... Englehart intentionally had her NOT join at the end of his run, but she's definitely a member by #305. Most accounts just say "Screw it" and call her joining in the 140s. I do too, to be honest.

Marinna has as much right to call herself an Avenger as anyone, and is certainly given SOME status during her time with the team. The Avengers seem to see her as being one of them, and she's in the Handbook.

Rita DeMara as Yellowjacket is a WEIRD case. She definitely is recruited for a temporary line-up by Cap, making her as much of an Avenger as D-Man, but doesn't stick around... but by the time she joins up with the GOTG in the future, she seems to view herself as an Avenger. Furthermore, she also references some relationship with Hank Pym that has yet to take place on panel in some of the GOTG backups. I call her a member, but the arguement works both ways.

Englehart swears he never had the Thing join, but that's blatantly contradicted by what he actually wrote and was published. Either way, he's a member by #305. Same for Firebird, who has reverted to that codename.

Rage angrily reminds people he IS an Avenger in the Initiative title, and nobody argues. Good enough for me.

Machine Man has actually managed to participate in 4 or 5 Avengers cases, was officially removed from the roster after he attempted to murder Justice and Firestar due to some Sentinel programming, and has been re-recruited since. He's a member.

Note that the entirety of the Young Avengers and Avengers Academy kids are given official Avengers status on-panel. So they count, whether we like it or not. Personally? I'm torn.

The Handbook treats Agent 13 as an Avenger. I hate this more than words can say. The same book ignores that the Prince of Orphans joins on-panel and officially. I hate this even MORE than the other.

Daredevil officially joined in New Avengers near the end, around the same time as Storm. I'll note that while he did nothing of value in the actual title, he made the most of his membership in his own book, like Thunderstrike before him. Either way, he's official.

Captain Mar-Vell is officially inducted into the Avengers as of his death. I count him as a real member, solely because he's on the roster in three of the Avengers greatest stories. (Kree-Skrull War, Thanos War, and Korvac Saga.)


TJB


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TJ Burns





The Collector considered him to be a member as well, and collected him during the Korvac Saga, something he didn't do for several other Avengers associates, like Hellcat and Ms. Marvel.


TJB


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Jack Silver




True they were really villians but they were officially recognised by the Government as being the 'official' Avengers whereas Hank Pym's Mighty Avengers and Luke Cage's New Avengers at the time were never official and in Cage's case were seen as outlaws.

I know Avengers status can be taken away 'officially' but still that shouldn't take away the fact that the Dark Avengers were considered Avengers for a period of time and still should be included in a listing of an all-time Avengers Rooster?


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AssemblyRequired




One thing I'm fuzzy on is why members of Cage's unofficial outlaw team are considered Avengers when the Avengers Resistance, led by Justice and Tigra, is not. Their mission statements were exactly the same. Both had official Avengers on the roster. And there is a story arc in the Mighty Avengers where Hank's team, Luke's team, and the Avengers Resistance assemble together to fight the Unspoken.

That doesn't mean we have to put Slapstick or Debrii front-and-center, but I think Komodo and Diamondback would be fine Avengers. Ultra Girl possibly too.


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AssemblyRequired




Tigra is who decided they should call themselves the Avengers Resistance in Avengers: The Initiative #25.


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Dane Whitman




TGK is one of those retrospective avengers and I can live with that. Whether that She Hulk run could give anything additional credibility is a bitter pill to swallow as for my money it was ruinous. The TGK bit was a nice twist and a set up to return someone else - I forget who - which was a fun trick. The art was sometimes good on that run and that is the nicest thing I want to say about it.


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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012


I agree with a lot of what you say. But the Guardians were listed as honorary. Supposedly so they could use the Avengers computer system, but I would have thought 30 th century far superior and easily hackable. Martinez even had an Avengers ID card which he showed Spiderman.

Marrina, was listed as honorary even though Monica called her an Avenger.

Young Avengers far as I was concerned were given membership by Bendis but seemed they forgotten when it came to Children's Crusade.

Hellcat she was given reserve status.

Machine Man I would say had reserve status.


I would say the Dark Avengers were considered members, but had it stripped from their actions.


Rita only showed up because of the ringing in her head. Though she did apply for membership she never stayed for the interview.


If Agent 13 is an Avenger would you consider Maria Hill? She led the team for 17 issues. Now she acts like she never spent any time with them.

Prince of Orphans is an interesting case. Seemed he had status, helped on a couple of cases.

Mar-Vell, I would thought he had membership. Beast referred to him as part of the membership in Avengers #182.

Mr. Bojo


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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012


You are correct. I was thinking today I forgot someone.



Mr. Bojo


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TJ Burns





Worth pointing out that reserve status IS full membership, just not actively being an Avenger at that moment... and honorary members don't get Identicards, as Rick Jones demonstrated in Galactic Storm. So the Guardians are full members, but are "honorary" in the sense that they live in another era.

Young Avengers are on-panel finally given status in Children's Crusade.

Machine Man is definitely a full Avenger... again, "reserve" is the same as "full, but not actively hanging around". If he's not, then Darkhawk isn't either as he explicitly joined under the same terms... and has participated in fewer actual cases.

I LOATHE the idea of Sharon being a full Avenger, but the Handbook says she is... and Maria Hill isn't, being in the same role that Sikorsky, Gyrich, and Victoria Hand filled. I have no explanation as to why this is other than Marvel actively is trying to confuse us.

Prince of Orphans is called Nova's replacement explicitly by Cap. Apparently, that's not good enough for Marvel, although he acts as a team member for more cases than at least a third of the list.

By #182, I'd have included Mar-Vell in the Avengers, but the Handbooks disagree.



TJB


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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012


I think there should be a limited series where it is explained. Maybe a narrative from Captain America either he is recording updating files or Captain is helping out a new member. Here it is detailed who has been an Avenger. Finally letting us know who is an Avenger. Does the membership count for the Skrull Spiderwoman, did Rage, Sentry, Protector have their membership taken away. What about Wonderman and Swordsman? What does it mean to be an honorary member. In a Red Hulk story characters were referred as Avenger Associates. Get a good writer(s) and top notch artist(s) it could be a good sell. Start off why and how did the Hulk rejoin.

In Avengers #125 vol.1 Lou=Ann (I think that is her name) shows up at Avengers Mansion trying to use Rick Jones ID card, which according to Captain America have had given him. So they do get cards, but I think they are limited to what they can do while in the Mansion. I think they can use it to communicate, perhaps use as a bank card,but limited to how much they can use. A car, if its available. I would think limited to certain files.


Mr. Bojo


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Dejarik Czar

Historians



Joined vs. reserve. vs. one of us
J = invited, accepted, issued ID cards etc
R = not privy to secrets ought to drop everything if summoned
OOU = pleased to meet you comrade, perhaps we'll team up again, you are welcome here

Love the thoughtful analysis. Have to say that a mini series is so unlikely. Hard to believe we are living in Age of Avengers and seeing many ongoing titles with Hickman at the helm of the Marvel Universe.

An addendum in an Annual or pinup charter in the back of an issue might suffice. The amount of editorial research involved in Marvel ever actually trying to "definitively" (for that moment in time) resolve a serialized fictional sprawling retconned cannon ("SFSRC?") is book worthy. That and the fact that movies and cartoons further complicate matters.


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Dejarik Csar




Oy, Mighty Avengers,Secret Avengers and Uncanny are dicey to me, as they are not referenced in the NA (Illuminati) and flagship. Loop them in and I'm fine with all of the membership benefits (easy for mr to spend Stark's $)

Hate to see Cap, Wolvy or anyone in multiple books as if it's implausible


Posted with Apple Safari 6.1.1 on MacOS X
Dejarik Csar




Oy, Mighty Avengers,Secret Avengers and Uncanny are dicey to me, as they are not referenced in the NA (Illuminati) and flagship. Loop them in and I'm fine with all of the membership benefits (easy for mr to spend Stark's $)

Hate to see Cap, Wolvy or anyone in multiple books as if it's implausible


Posted with Apple Safari 6.1.1 on MacOS X
Dejarik Csar




Oy, Mighty Avengers,Secret Avengers and Uncanny are dicey to me, as they are not referenced in the NA (Illuminati) and flagship. Loop them in and I'm fine with all of the membership benefits (easy for mr to spend Stark's $)

Hate to see Cap, Wolvy or anyone in multiple books as if it's implausible


Posted with Apple Safari 6.1.1 on MacOS X
Dejarik Csar




Oy, Mighty Avengers,Secret Avengers and Uncanny are dicey to me, as they are not referenced in the NA (Illuminati) and flagship. Loop them in and I'm fine with all of the membership benefits (easy for mr to spend Stark's $)

Hate to see Cap, Wolvy or anyone in multiple books as if it's implausible


Posted with Apple Safari 6.1.1 on MacOS X

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