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aquamariner


Member Since: Mon Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 1,251


Curious


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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623


Tough question. Scarlet Witch perhaps?

Daughter of a mass-murderer, she spent her childhood being hunted, hated and misunderstood, and her early costumed days being mistreated as a member of the Bortherhood of Mutants by the man she would later descover was her father.

Married an android who was later dismantled and came back as a mindless automotron, later divorced said android, was brainwashed and turned against her fellow Avengers.

Had kids only to discover that they were figments of her imagination combined with her ability to alter reality at her whim.

Later saw another would-be boyfriend (Wonderman) killed in action.

Suffered a massive nervous breakdown that resulted in the deaths of several Avengers, and was later taken advantage of by her brother to change reality as we know it, and ultimately wipe out an entire race. Had to go into hiding, and then spent a while being chased by her former colleagues, some of whom were insistant on killing her.

I'm probably forgetting some stuff aswell.


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Aragorn




I nominate Swordsman. Coerced into joining the Avengers to betray them, he has a change of heart but is discovered before he can repent. Eventually he starts to redeem himself by helping save the world from Ares. He meets Mantis who continues his redemption and then he dies saving her, even though she hinted at disloyalty by flirting with the Vision. (all in my humble recollection).


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I nominate Swordsman. Coerced into joining the Avengers to betray them, he has a change of heart but is discovered before he can repent. Eventually he starts to redeem himself by helping save the world from Ares. He meets Mantis who continues his redemption and then he dies saving her, even though she hinted at disloyalty by flirting with the Vision. (all in my humble recollection).


Mantis was down right skanky IMO. She lost interest in Swordsman and actively pursued Vision knowing he and Wanda were involved. Mantis used Swordsman and threw him away like trash.

Maybe it's because I have a disturbed sense of humor but one scene I found funny was where Kang is holding Wanda and Mantis prisoner in these tubes and the two of them start bickering over the Vision while Kang has to remind them that oh yeah he's planning to rape and impregnate the one who is the Celestial Madonna and just kill the other one.


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Furious Ferret




Hank Pym

Has mental and emotional issues

Created the Avengers greatest adversary - Ultron

Lost the woman he loved due to temper


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Curious


Mantis. Her mother dies when she is an infant and her criminal father is blinded and dumps her with alien priests to learn Kree kung fu or some shit. She gets pimped out by plants to become more worldly...or maybe that was her crimelord uncle Khruul who pimped her out I forget but I'm pretty sure she was giving it up for uncle Khruul because he didn't know she was his niece and I doubt he took no for an answer. Her loyal boyfriend dies after she throws herself at a robot. She gets kidnapped by Kang who wants to rape and impregnate her (what's up with Kang and his family being so rapey?). Mantis bangs a tree that looks like her dead boyfriend because she's being groomed as a brood sow for some alien plot. Gets knocked up. The Cotati steal her baby. She falls in love with Silver Surfer but loses him. She dies what seems like half a dozen times. Space Phantom impersonator sullies her good name.

Reverend Meteor (geez come to think of it Avengers has probably had more mystical pregnancies than that show Angel)


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TJ Burns





The Vision. His entire life is a quest for acceptance and love among human beings, which has cost him the love of his father. When he finally achieves that? He has it all taken away from him, is effectively lobotomized, and his own friends and "family" don't care enough to fix him. Apparently, only Tony Stark seems to view the Vision as being in any way human, and that's horrible.



TJB


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008






City of Heroes is BACK!
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aquamariner


Member Since: Mon Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 1,251



    Quote:

    The Vision. His entire life is a quest for acceptance and love among human beings, which has cost him the love of his father. When he finally achieves that? He has it all taken away from him, is effectively lobotomized, and his own friends and "family" don't care enough to fix him. Apparently, only Tony Stark seems to view the Vision as being in any way human, and that's horrible.


Don't forget his ex wife used him as weapon to kill his friends in avengers dissasembled


    Quote:
    TJB





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Tate Walters




Yellow Jacket II....Helps save the world in Atlantis Attacks. Becomes a true hero in the future with the Guardians of The Galaxy. She returns to the present and the next time she shows up at the mansion door she is blown away by Tony Stark. Her death goes unnoticed. All of that story line gets dropped and forgotten, except that she is still dead and never mourned or acknowledged.


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Hank


Member Since: Fri Jul 01, 2011









Bikini House Productions: Like EDM? Check out my releases.
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TJ Burns





I'm actually willing to consider the idea that Wanda isn't responsible for that outside of being a pawn of forces outside of her control. The Life Entity for certain, but also Dr. Doom took responsibility for that attack, and it shows the kind of strategy that he would use moreso than the person Wanda is at her worst... and, ironically, ended in the sort of punishment that he swore he'd inflict on the Vision someday. It may well be his design at work.



TJB


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

    I'm actually willing to consider the idea that Wanda isn't responsible for that outside of being a pawn of forces outside of her control. The Life Entity for certain, but also Dr. Doom took responsibility for that attack, and it shows the kind of strategy that he would use moreso than the person Wanda is at her worst... and, ironically, ended in the sort of punishment that he swore he'd inflict on the Vision someday. It may well be his design at work.


My big problem with Doom being behind Wanda's problems is if Doom had control over a resource like Wanda...wouldn't he have made a point to spread some of that misery onto the Fantastic Four instead of inflicting it on the Avengers and the mutants?

Doom using Wanda means he effectively used her to commit mass genocide (even though he's not racist/specist IMO) and dismantled the Avengers. He couldn't share the hate with his worst enemies? Doom dismantled the Avengers, had mutants wiped out and still he had lame fights with the Fantastic Four. Making Doom behind Wanda's problems makes it seem like he's kind of...well...outgrown the Fantastic Four.



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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Yellow Jacket II....Helps save the world in Atlantis Attacks. Becomes a true hero in the future with the Guardians of The Galaxy. She returns to the present and the next time she shows up at the mansion door she is blown away by Tony Stark. Her death goes unnoticed. All of that story line gets dropped and forgotten, except that she is still dead and never mourned or acknowledged.


My problem with that death.

Rita goes to another timeline, comes back and gets killed in the Crossing.

Just say the Rita that died was from a slightly different GotG timeline and the real one is still in future. Or just show a Rita from a variant of the GotG where she stayed in the GotG timeline and didn't go back in time to die. Or reveal that the Yellow Jacket that died in the Crossing was a Space Phantom...Mantis was a space phantom back then.

It is so easy to bring her back. Hell have Fixer resurrect her. He was obsessed with Rita. He brought Jolt back from the dead. Him and Helmut didn't have a problem turning Blackout into a zombie meat puppet.

Or reveal the one that died was a shape-shifting Super Adaptoid or something.

There are just so many ways to bring her back...


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TJ Burns





I assume Doom didn't have fine control... he could only direct Wanda subtly, and in ways that her own darker side and subconscious fears had considered. Wanda simply doesn't think enough about the FF for her to be directed in that way. Although that's TOTALLY why he'd have had her kill Agatha by cancelling her resurrection... spite the FF in that way, by killing Franklin's nanny, and HOPE that the chaos caused in New York in Disassembled might accidentally pick off some of the FF. Either way, Richards' allies are downed, and Doom wins that way. (The What If?, of course, says that the strategist Wanda was using was Captain America, who was slowly going senile... a thing that that world's Dr. Strange confirmed was true of the 616 Universe as well, so there's that little tidbit to factor.)

I also think that the "No More Mutants" thing was one of those plans that totally went outside of Doom's control. He didn't expect Wanda's hate of her father to end up that way, and his subtle influence, intended to eliminate the only man he views as a genuine rival for control of the world (as was established in Super-Villain Team-Up), sort of spiraled into that.


TJB




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Tate Walters




Yes, but no one has and no one will, because not enough people care about her. So I continue with my belief that she's the most tragic Avenger.


Thunderstrike would have been my 2nd. Lost custody of his son and eventually his life being a hero, who very few really respected. (But he was one of my all-time favorites)


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Tate Walters




Yeah, he's a pretty great choice for a tragic character


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zeus




If it can be done in a way that doesn't invalidate Dead Avengers, I vote yes.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    If it can be done in a way that doesn't invalidate Dead Avengers, I vote yes.


I never like when they show undead characters like that or the Legion of Unliving. How many times has someone shown up to be a member of the Legion of Unliving and turned out not to even be dead in the first place (Mockingbird, Norman Osborn, Bucky etc). I'm guessing it was Mockingbird's Skrull imposter who helped Hawkeye that time he went to hell.




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AssemblyRequired







    Quote:
    It is so easy to bring her back. Hell have Fixer resurrect her. He was obsessed with Rita. He brought Jolt back from the dead. Him and Helmut didn't have a problem turning Blackout into a zombie meat puppet.


The Fixer idea is a good one. But didn't Rita make it through the Dead Avengers mini alive? Along with Swordsman?

Alpha Flight's resurrections were permanent from that situation, so why not YJ2 and the Swordsman?

Just because nobody has used them since then doesn't mean they aren't around. Namorita is back alive as well and we haven't seen her either since DnA got booted off the cosmic titles.




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zeus


Location: Plano, IL
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


You've got a point there, but I just enjoyed Dead Avengers too much to change my "vote".


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zeus


Location: Plano, IL
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


You've got a point there, but I just enjoyed Dead Avengers too much to change my "vote".


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Quantum


Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 2,270




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