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Author
Dane Whitman





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    Quote:
    Just caught the preview to Pleasant Hill Omega... No spoilers but... The page presented has some of the best dialogue in recent times. Too often we have the same joke repeated for pages or a build up to one punch line for pages, but here we have several different jokes, funny and in character. I am an unashamed Bendis fan and it is the greatest compliment I can think of to say I assumed this was him. Actually Spencer. Even Deadpool gets an OK line. I am so over Deadpool's style of humour which is one note at best. So, here's a question: did Bendis ever write a story with Deadpool in it?


I like Deadpool but I hate him around the Avengers.

For some reason Marvel has been trying to push him as a hero for the past several years and I hate it. Deadpool is an evil dude.

And it's not even him trying to be a hero that bothers me...it's when he gives heroes grief for not believing in him. He killed a pizza guy once for starting a rumor about a girl in high school. Stop trying to make Deadpool seem nice.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 44.0.3 on Windows 7
Dane Whitman




Deadpool kept a blind woman as a slave and span a wheel to decide how he would torture her. That is not to my taste, but once you have a character doing that it should really put them off limits for Super Hero status. You would need something like AXIS to turn that around. Now, I don't know if AXIS converted Deadpool, but from memory this drive to have him depicted as a sensitive and misunderstood do-gooder started way before that.


Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46
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    Quote:
    Deadpool kept a blind woman as a slave and span a wheel to decide how he would torture her. That is not to my taste, but once you have a character doing that it should really put them off limits for Super Hero status. You would need something like AXIS to turn that around. Now, I don't know if AXIS converted Deadpool, but from memory this drive to have him depicted as a sensitive and misunderstood do-gooder started way before that.


The worst example of the pussification of Deadpool is when he hugged Kid Apocalypse and gave him a pep talk.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 44.0.3 on Windows 7
The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Blind Al was never a slave. Their relationship was... complex. If anything his keeping her was sort of heroic.




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    Quote:
    Blind Al was never a slave. Their relationship was... complex. If anything his keeping her was sort of heroic.


It was complex...i.e. not heroic either.

She tried to escape from him once and she slept with some dude. Deadpool tracked her down killed the guy and his dogs and drug her back to his house.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Blind Al was never a slave. Their relationship was... complex. If anything his keeping her was sort of heroic.

    It was complex...i.e. not heroic either.

    She tried to escape from him once and she slept with some dude. Deadpool tracked her down killed the guy and his dogs and drug her back to his house.

He was basically protecting her, even from herself. Foolish old woman had no business running off like that, anyway.




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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 8
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    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Blind Al was never a slave. Their relationship was... complex. If anything his keeping her was sort of heroic.

      It was complex...i.e. not heroic either.



      Quote:
      She tried to escape from him once and she slept with some dude. Deadpool tracked her down killed the guy and his dogs and drug her back to his house.

    He was basically protecting her, even from herself. Foolish old woman had no business running off like that, anyway.


But she was really into the guy from the story she told.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Even more reason for Deadpool to do what he did for her own good.




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    Quote:
    Even more reason for Deadpool to do what he did for her own good.


I'm for moral relativism as much as the next guy but we had no reason to believe from the story Al told that the guy (and his dogs) deserved to be murdered.


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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623


Deadpool WAS are a really bad guy, but It should be remembered that the story youre all talking about happens at the very beginning of Joe Kellys run on the initial ongoing series, Deadpool doesnt make any bones about what a bad guy he is, and the whole story was about him being on the road to redemption - a place which he has (mostly) reached.

It was a very good story, and as well as highlighting some of the weakness of the character and some of the bad decisons he had made, it also highlights alot about how unfortunate he had been.

In truth its a story that despite its 'all ages' certification and lack of any of the violence or blood that has come to symbolise the comic today, makes you feel a little grubby for reading. This is a guy thats REALLY messed up - not crazy 'Ha! Ha!', but 'serial killer' crazy.

Is he a hero? Can he ever be a hero? That depends upon how you define 'heroism', whether you think people are always defined by their past no matter what they do in the present, and what you think of other comparable examples.

Wolverine for example has probably willingly killed dozens - does it really matter whether they were 'bad guys' (and I doubt all of them were)- he's a good guy now. Black Widow participated in Russias actions during the Cold War, and no doubt murdered, assassinated and sabotaged her way through the 1950's to the 1990's. If Russia had won the Cold War then her actions would have made her a national hero, its only because America won it and history is written by the victor that there is any criticism of her character (because American agents would have definately been doing exactly the same).

At this point there are probably more heroes with a history of criminality - some worse than others - than there are ones with a clean slate.


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


He knew too much.




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    Quote:
    He knew too much.


See you're just saying nonsensical jibber jabber without putting a context to it which tells me you're just playing devil's advocate for no reason.

The story as it was related was designed to show that Al's imprisonment wasn't all fun and games...it usually was depicted that way but that story showed there was another side to Wade and Al's relationship...Wade would kill to keep Al with him. The reason she related the story was she was worried how Deadpool would react to Wade's friend Weasel's attempts to socialize with her.

The dude he killed's motives were never a factor. Wade killed the guy to victimize Al and keep her dependent on himself. As her captor he was trying to break her spirit to keep her from escaping.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 44.0.3 on Windows 7
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    Quote:
    Deadpool WAS are a really bad guy, but It should be remembered that the story youre all talking about happens at the very beginning of Joe Kellys run on the initial ongoing series, Deadpool doesnt make any bones about what a bad guy he is, and the whole story was about him being on the road to redemption - a place which he has (mostly) reached.



    Quote:
    It was a very good story, and as well as highlighting some of the weakness of the character and some of the bad decisons he had made, it also highlights alot about how unfortunate he had been.



    Quote:
    In truth its a story that despite its 'all ages' certification and lack of any of the violence or blood that has come to symbolise the comic today, makes you feel a little grubby for reading. This is a guy thats REALLY messed up - not crazy 'Ha! Ha!', but 'serial killer' crazy.



    Quote:
    Is he a hero? Can he ever be a hero? That depends upon how you define 'heroism', whether you think people are always defined by their past no matter what they do in the present, and what you think of other comparable examples.


He killed people for money and enjoyed it. Unlike the Punisher he worked for bad people like Tolliver. He once killed a pizza delivery guy for spreading a rumor about a female classmate back in high school.




    Quote:
    Wolverine for example has probably willingly killed dozens - does it really matter whether they were 'bad guys' (and I doubt all of them were)- he's a good guy now. Black Widow participated in Russias actions during the Cold War, and no doubt murdered, assassinated and sabotaged her way through the 1950's to the 1990's. If Russia had won the Cold War then her actions would have made her a national hero, its only because America won it and history is written by the victor that there is any criticism of her character (because American agents would have definately been doing exactly the same).


Well personally I don't think Wolverine is morally any better than Deadpool so I won't argue.


    Quote:
    At this point there are probably more heroes with a history of criminality - some worse than others - than there are ones with a clean slate.


My problem is that a lot of Deadpool's actions aren't redeemable. He killed for money. He liked doing it.

A lot of other characters you can give an out to. Punisher may like killing but all the people he kills are dirty and he doesn't get paid for it. Wolverine may be a mass murderer but he doesn't like what he does. Black Widow and Captain America have killed out of patriotism but they were sanctioned by their governments. But Deadpool killed for money, sold himself to super villains and terrorists and he enjoyed his job.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


No, I just disagree. If he were trying to break her spirit it was only for her own good. Her life very much depended on her being completely dependent on Wade.




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    Quote:
    No, I just disagree. If he were trying to break her spirit it was only for her own good. Her life very much depended on her being completely dependent on Wade.


She's clearly self sufficient. \:\-z


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 10
USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623




    Quote:
    He killed people for money and enjoyed it. Unlike the Punisher he worked for bad people like Tolliver. He once killed a pizza delivery guy for spreading a rumor about a female classmate back in high school.


The killing of the delivery boy I think is out of character even for Deadpool, especially at that much more recent period in his life. I'm going to put that one down to simple bad writing.

I dont get hung up on the fact that Deadpool kills people for money. I dont recall much to suggest that he took a special enjoyment from it - certainly not in the way that Sabretooth or Bullseye did - and there hasnt been much mention of exactly who he killed in the unseen years. Probably safe to assume that they werent all bad guys, but as I said earlier this was the beginning of his career before any kind of desire to redeem himself.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Wolverine for example has probably willingly killed dozens - does it really matter whether they were 'bad guys' (and I doubt all of them were)- he's a good guy now. Black Widow participated in Russias actions during the Cold War, and no doubt murdered, assassinated and sabotaged her way through the 1950's to the 1990's. If Russia had won the Cold War then her actions would have made her a national hero, its only because America won it and history is written by the victor that there is any criticism of her character (because American agents would have definately been doing exactly the same).



    Quote:
    Well personally I don't think Wolverine is morally any better than Deadpool so I won't argue.


Then what about the Widow and other government types like her? The only thing that makes most of the people she killed 'bad' was the fact that they fell on the wrong side of a political divide - they wouldnt have been enemy combatants or soldiers killed according to the rules of war, they would primarily have been political and social opponants I expect, and many of them would more than likely have been completely innocent by any objective sense beyond the fact that Comrade Stalin/Kruschev/Gorbachov didnt like them. Does she or Nick Fury for that matter get redemption for all the good they have subsequently done?


    Quote:
    My problem is that a lot of Deadpool's actions aren't redeemable. He killed for money. He liked doing it.


This seems to be the crux of the matter - ideology. I suppose you either accept that a person can redeem themselves or you dont. Deadpools quest for redemption is a never ending one. He will never feel totally redeemed - the fact he doesnt value himself and is full of self loathing is a common reoccuring theme in his books, and he can only hope that in his long life he can do as much good as possible and hope that others feel he balanced the books a little come the end.


    Quote:
    A lot of other characters you can give an out to. Punisher may like killing but all the people he kills are dirty and he doesn't get paid for it. Wolverine may be a mass murderer but he doesn't like what he does. Black Widow and Captain America have killed out of patriotism but they were sanctioned by their governments. But Deadpool killed for money, sold himself to super villains and terrorists and he enjoyed his job.


I'm not sure how by any conventional perspective of justice a character like the Punisher can really be considered more redeemable than any of the Marvel Universes other mass murderers. The fact that he kills 'bad guys' isnt a justification for preemptive murder in any society. We give him a free pass as fans because he's doing what every person has probably dreamed of at one point or another with the whole eye for and eye thing - in fact its rarely just an eye for an eye with him - his actions are rarely proportionate to the crimes.

I dont like Deadpool as an Avenger for the same reasons I dont think that the Punisher should ever be an Avenger. I agree that no matter how much good they might do, it does not wipe their past clean, but at the same time If Deadpool is acting heroically in the present out of a genuine feeling of alturism, I dont think that his past should devalue his contribution anymore than I think that the crimes of a murderer who leaves prison, sees the light and gets involved in outreach programmes or teaching kids not to go down the same path he did does. Sure, he'll never shake that spectre of his past, and its right that there should always be some judgement of people who commit such horrible crimes, but that doesnt mean he cant be praised for his actions in the present or his efforts to do better.




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