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macka




Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!


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> Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!

It was indeed extraordinary, with some magnificent turns of phrase ("The Satire years, before Camp and New Homicidal") and word-images. IMHO It works better as an illustrated text story where you can imagine the events better than the artist could hope to capture them. (Not terribly fond of the VERY CGI bits, but...)

However, that being said, I do wonder how other writers and artists will deal with this "new look and new attitude" Joker. Given Paul Dini's magnificent depiction in Detective 826, this new Joker needs time to develop and discover if he will work in a standard comic presentation.


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Omar Karindu




> > Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!
>
> It was indeed extraordinary, with some magnificent turns of phrase ("The Satire years, before Camp and New Homicidal") and word-images. IMHO It works better as an illustrated text story where you can imagine the events better than the artist could hope to capture them. (Not terribly fond of the VERY CGI bits, but...)
>
> However, that being said, I do wonder how other writers and artists will deal with this "new look and new attitude" Joker. Given Paul Dini's magnificent depiction in Detective 826, this new Joker needs time to develop and discover if he will work in a standard comic presentation.

I asn't terribly impressed by most of it, really, excepting perhaps the bit you quoted and the lovely little scenes with Harley -- it's refreshign seeing her played as frighteningly insane rather than as light comic relief. But Morrison's choice of primarily visual symbolism simply called attention, for me, to how hard his prose had to stretch in its physical descriptions where pictures would have done the job more subtly and better.

More than that, however, I'm not sure how "new" this Joker is. His smile is permanent, yes, but his terrifying annunciation of his new personality in this story is...to murder his old henchmen and then escape Arkham. He's been doing those things for around 30 years now, and while getting more of an inside track on the extent of his nihilistic thinking this time around, his actions themselves aren't especially compelling. And his little (unspoken) speech to Batman was basically straight out of Engelhart's and O'Neil's portrayals: crime is an ego-booster, he can't kill his only worthy opponent, etc.

Nothing new here, I'm afraid.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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punishment




> Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!


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Trey




> > Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!
>
Tough to read, but once I finished it I was like wow. Felt like I was in Arkham with Joker. And he's always been drawn with tons of different looks. Everyones going crazy, saying this will get retconned. What exactly was altered? Remember he got shot in the face. Hence the new stitchs, damage to his vocal cords.
> It was indeed extraordinary, with some magnificent turns of phrase ("The Satire years, before Camp and New Homicidal") and word-images. IMHO It works better as an illustrated text story where you can imagine the events better than the artist could hope to capture them. (Not terribly fond of the VERY CGI bits, but...)
>
> However, that being said, I do wonder how other writers and artists will deal with this "new look and new attitude" Joker. Given Paul Dini's magnificent depiction in Detective 826, this new Joker needs time to develop and discover if he will work in a standard comic presentation.


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> I asn't terribly impressed by most of it, really, excepting perhaps the bit you quoted and the lovely little scenes with Harley -- it's refreshign seeing her played as frighteningly insane rather than as light comic relief.

But has she ever been that way in the DCU before? She has a deeply unhealthy obsession with the Joker, but she's not been a killer in her own right IIRC.

> More than that, however, I'm not sure how "new" this Joker is. His smile is permanent, yes, but his terrifying annunciation of his new personality in this story is...to murder his old henchmen and then escape Arkham. He's been doing those things for around 30 years now, and while getting more of an inside track on the extent of his nihilistic thinking this time around, his actions themselves aren't especially compelling. And his little (unspoken) speech to Batman was basically straight out of Engelhart's and O'Neil's portrayals: crime is an ego-booster, he can't kill his only worthy opponent, etc.
>
> Nothing new here, I'm afraid.

Yes that's my other concern with the issue, someone on another board was trying to convince me that it was major shift because of the Joker's reinvention, away from the personal attacks of Barbara and Jason/Robin. I had to point out that that was nearly two decades ago, and the Joker we've had since then has been a mass murdering spree killer. Which is what his apparent current change is supposed to be into. It seems redundant.


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emerickman




> > Crap this was an amazing issue, one of my favorite batman and more importantantly joker stories ever, the nods to the past were brilliant as joker does away with his past in the comic, morrison does away with the past classic joker stories adn metamorphasises the character in both the story and th way he is handled by writers. Bravo Grant, just amazing!!


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MattS80




> > I asn't terribly impressed by most of it, really, excepting perhaps the bit you quoted and the lovely little scenes with Harley -- it's refreshign seeing her played as frighteningly insane rather than as light comic relief.
>
> But has she ever been that way in the DCU before? She has a deeply unhealthy obsession with the Joker, but she's not been a killer in her own right IIRC.
>
>
I didn't really read her series or even most of her appearances, but in No Mans Land, she was definetely at least homicidal, or at least willing to kill. She was with the Joker when he attacked officer Billy Petit's (or however you spell his last name.) camp to get the babies. I'm pretty sure she killed people. She's not really an enemy of Batmans or the Batman characters though.


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Webwalker57




I hope they don't EVER do another one of these. \>\:\-\(


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Mr. Cheese




> > > I asn't terribly impressed by most of it, really, excepting perhaps the bit you quoted and the lovely little scenes with Harley -- it's refreshign seeing her played as frighteningly insane rather than as light comic relief.
> >
> > But has she ever been that way in the DCU before? She has a deeply unhealthy obsession with the Joker, but she's not been a killer in her own right IIRC.
> >
> >
> I didn't really read her series or even most of her appearances, but in No Mans Land, she was definetely at least homicidal, or at least willing to kill. She was with the Joker when he attacked officer Billy Petit's (or however you spell his last name.) camp to get the babies. I'm pretty sure she killed people. She's not really an enemy of Batmans or the Batman characters though.

It was well written. The kind of stuff that they should put in those Batman novelizations and whatnot


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