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Dark Marvel




***I think that the DCU needed somebody who was willing to do whatever it took to be prepared for all eventualities. Not too many super hero friends, but allies, who were still uneasy with him. When Batman is in the room everybody should shut up because he is that dangerous. The Bat-family almost could have been it's own league and with their brains, detective work and just plain old instinct could take out anyone with just a little bit of prep...I havent read Batman in a while but a friend told me he is a lot friendlier now...I don't like that.


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Taran'Atar




Man, am I gonna get sh** for this, but if you don't like a friendly Batman, pick up All Star Batman and Robin.

Yeah, I liked the paranoid Batman too.


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Taran'Atar




Man, am I gonna get sh** for this, but if you don't like a friendly Batman, pick up All Star Batman and Robin.

Yeah I like the paranoid Batman too.


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Omar Karindu




> ***I think that the DCU needed somebody who was willing to do whatever it took to be prepared for all eventualities. Not too many super hero friends, but allies, who were still uneasy with him. When Batman is in the room everybody should shut up because he is that dangerous. The Bat-family almost could have been it's own league and with their brains, detective work and just plain old instinct could take out anyone with just a little bit of prep...I havent read Batman in a while but a friend told me he is a lot friendlier now...I don't like that.

There were always three problems with this, though: first, the writers pushed it to the point that there wasn't evena Bat-family, and tended to have paranoid Batman become so paranoid that he stopped seeming....well...smart. (Really, Bruce, when every nutjob in Arkham and Blackgate are loose, it might just be okay to call in outside help so that you don't get your back broken by the next psycho who catches you when you're all tuckered out. Doing it all yourself is not good strategy, and not intelligent.)

The second problem with it is that sales purpoises meant that Batman had to show up everywhere and be a charter JLAer. And if he's also being a paranoid, slightly crazy jerkass, then it becomes increasingly unlikely he'd be able to work with the JLA regularly or that anyone else would put up with him. Plus the reader ends up seeing him being a jerk, but not seeing him accomplishing loads and loads of things, so he loses that "abnything it takes" edge.

The third proble, of course, is that he never really was an "anything it takes" type poutside of the extreme and alternate future circumstances of DKR. Her doesn't kill, for instance, and even at his looniest he always had a strange tendency to prefer using his physical skills over prep and gadgets, which then tended to get him more lumps than a genuinely prepared, "anything it takes" sort reasonably would. Again, the end resulkt was less to make him seem like a dark, uber-prepared type in his own books than to make him seem like a nutjob who often hampered himself unnecessarily. In short, it made him look less efficient, not moreso.

Besides, friendliness often allows you to manipulate other people all the more easily, and if getting the job done is what you're really after....

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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Blue Jay




> Man, am I gonna get sh** for this, but if you don't like a friendly Batman, pick up All Star Batman and Robin.
>
> Yeah, I liked the paranoid Batman too.

I like a cautious Batman. One that has kryptonite in case Superman goes rouge and is prepared for emergencies. However, I do not like a paranoid untrusting madman that trusts no one, not even his sidekicks and has strategies with weapons ready to take out his friends in the Justice League he helped create.

The definitive Batman thinks of all good people as friends, calls them such and trusts them.


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Blue Beetle




> > Man, am I gonna get sh** for this, but if you don't like a friendly Batman, pick up All Star Batman and Robin.
> >
> > Yeah, I liked the paranoid Batman too.
>
> I like a cautious Batman. One that has kryptonite in case Superman goes rouge and is prepared for emergencies. However, I do not like a paranoid untrusting madman that trusts no one, not even his sidekicks and has strategies with weapons ready to take out his friends in the Justice League he helped create.
>
> The definitive Batman thinks of all good people as friends, calls them such and trusts them.


I agree with your perspective. It makes total sense to me that Batman would carry a piece of kryptonite in case Superman gets mind-controlled or a new, evil Kryptonian appears. He would also keep a flame-thrower handy, for whatever uses flame might be good for, and to help fight Martian Manhunter if need be. But the Morrison exaggeration of this line of thought just went too far, as Morrison is prone to do.

I also agree with Omar Karindu's comments. If Batman is allegedly a super-mastermind with plans on top of plans, then why is it that his standard approach is to dive into the midst of criminals and start punching? DC should at least be consistent.

And the very idea that Batman doesn't trust Nightwing or Robin or Oracle or Batgirl... frankly, it's offensive to me.




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Icon




> ***I think that the DCU needed somebody who was willing to do whatever it took to be prepared for all eventualities. Not too many super hero friends, but allies, who were still uneasy with him. When Batman is in the room everybody should shut up because he is that dangerous. The Bat-family almost could have been it's own league and with their brains, detective work and just plain old instinct could take out anyone with just a little bit of prep...

Whilst the personality traits you describe sound interesting, they just don't make for a good Batman IMHO. Batman is smart, and a planner, sure, but if he can't be surprised by something low level then he lacks a humanity which makes him engaging.

>I havent read Batman in a while but a friend told me he is a lot friendlier now...I don't like that.

Perhaps not so much "friendly" as "less arrogantly presumptious of his own superiority" or "less hostile towards people whose only 'crime' is being superhuman".

The paranoid control freak Batman of recent years, never asking for help, blanking out his sons (Dick and Tim) and family (Oracle, Alfred et al) never mind allies and colleagues who are deserving of his respect, actively put me off picking up any comic he was in.




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Victor




What Batman TAS got so right is that the story resonates more when we actually LIKE Bruce. When we BELIEVE that he deserves a life in the sunlight...but is noble enough to forsake it to prevent what happened to him from happening to us.
That is what makes him a hero!

Super psycho-ninja Batman with new, fast action meaness powers is an immature, emotionally stunted, crybaby.
That characterization makes bruce a mere vessel of his obsession.
He doesn't choose anything...like many paranoid people, who are brutally mean to those they care about, that batman was scared of being close to anyone for fear of loss.

What I hate about Psycho Batman is that, at the core, he really is weak.

Batmam should have an edge and should be prepared, but he shouldn't be incapable of loving or trusting those who deserve respect.

Otherwise bruce falls into the same trap that tony stark is currently in _ in which every story becomes a lesson about his weaknesses and moral failings. Such characters attract such stories because even the writers can't like Thor-cloning, mass deception loving, negative zone jailing, spiderman screwing Tony Stark.

In the same vein, writers will always want to show up Alfred bashing, brother eye creating, dick grayson firing, JLA protocol producing, humorless batman.

The darkness of the story comes from the world of shadows and how it can affect Bruce, not from Bruce's pychosis!

Victor

> ***I think that the DCU needed somebody who was willing to do whatever it took to be prepared for all eventualities. Not too many super hero friends, but allies, who were still uneasy with him. When Batman is in the room everybody should shut up because he is that dangerous. The Bat-family almost could have been it's own league and with their brains, detective work and just plain old instinct could take out anyone with just a little bit of prep...I havent read Batman in a while but a friend told me he is a lot friendlier now...I don't like that.


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