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they were rumours after all...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2932

Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.


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Omar Karindu




> they were rumours after all...
>
> http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2932
>
> Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.

Actually, this make sit sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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> > they were rumours after all...
> >
> > http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2932
> >
> > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
>
> Actually, this make sit sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.


Good point, should have caught that. (That'll teach me to post late at night)


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Blue Beetle




> > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
>
> Actually, this makes it sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.


Nice to see upper management doing something right. Kudos to whoever made the decision.

It amazes me how DC staffers continually want to mimick Marvel. Captain America is dead, and it looks like Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) will replace him. So let's kill Batman and have Jason Todd replace him! Monkey see, monkey do. I say kill the monkey. I don't want DC to mimick Marvel. I dropped Marvel out of disgust. I want DC to be different.




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Omar Karindu




> > > they were rumours after all...
> > >
> > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2932
> > >
> > > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
> >
> > Actually, this make sit sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.
>
>
> Good point, should have caught that. (That'll teach me to post late at night)

The thing is, I can grasp why Morrison might have plotted things that way. He set up the idea that humanity is the heir to the Fourth World and the New Gods in both his JLA run (Protex: "Creatures that were supposed to be gods ended up being mere humans."/Metron: "You are the forerunners."/Humanity becoming supoerhumans during the Mageddon conflict.) and Seven Soldiers (The New Gods create the god-hero Aurakles/Shilo Norman apparently becomes a full-fledged god.).

Who beter to be the first human to ascend to New Godhood than the ultimate human, Batman? And for Morrison, Batman is very much the peak of human potential and will, not just an obsessive who trains a lot.

All that said, overall you lose Batman...even if you revert him to human, having been an outrifght god and all that sort of scotches the whole "ultimate human" idea by resolving or finishing it as a concept. And some future writer would invariably be tempted to have the transformation recur or have stupid aftereffects. No wonder it was squelched.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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Omar Karindu




> > > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
> >
> > Actually, this makes it sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.
>
>
> Nice to see upper management doing something right. Kudos to whoever made the decision.
>
> It amazes me how DC staffers continually want to mimick Marvel. Captain America is dead, and it looks like Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) will replace him. So let's kill Batman and have Jason Todd replace him! Monkey see, monkey do. I say kill the monkey. I don't want DC to mimick Marvel. I dropped Marvel out of disgust. I want DC to be different.

In fairness, the idea was apparently not to flatly kill Batman, but to have him become the first human to ascend and become a replacement for the dying New Gods. The idea that human beings are the forerunners of the Fifth World is something Morrison's been laying in since the first issues of his JLA run.

O focurse, I don't want to see Batman-as-Phoenix anymore than I want to see Batman-as-dead-Cap, so I'm not really countering your criticism here....

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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BMK!




> > > > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
> > >
> > > Actually, this makes it sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.
> >
> >
> > Nice to see upper management doing something right. Kudos to whoever made the decision.
> >
> > It amazes me how DC staffers continually want to mimick Marvel. Captain America is dead, and it looks like Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) will replace him. So let's kill Batman and have Jason Todd replace him! Monkey see, monkey do. I say kill the monkey. I don't want DC to mimick Marvel. I dropped Marvel out of disgust. I want DC to be different.
>
> In fairness, the idea was apparently not to flatly kill Batman, but to have him become the first human to ascend and become a replacement for the dying New Gods. The idea that human beings are the forerunners of the Fifth World is something Morrison's been laying in since the first issues of his JLA run.
>
> O focurse, I don't want to see Batman-as-Phoenix anymore than I want to see Batman-as-dead-Cap, so I'm not really countering your criticism here....
>
> - Omar Karindu
>


I believe that the earlier original idead was to have most, if not all, of the DC icons to become New Gods and replaced by sidekicks (and such) before that was nixed and settled on with just Bruce Wayne.

-BMK!-




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Scott




> I believe that the earlier original idead was to have most, if not all, of the DC icons to become New Gods and replaced by sidekicks (and such) before that was nixed and settled on with just Bruce Wayne.

Yeah, someone on the boards told me that the original rumor/plan was to have Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman become the New Gods. I like the idea in a small way. I think it would have been better if this happened to the Earth-2/Golden Age heroes though.

Scott


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Blue Jay




Thanks for the article. It pretty much states the dismal state of comics at DC and Marvel Comics.

"Of course, from such bedlam and mayhem, often comes inspired madness and creativity. Right now, the place is reminiscent of Jemas era Marvel – no one knows what to do or what is expected of them. Some creators have expressed despair to me, others see an opportunity to do something fresh and exciting in 2008. They are trying lots of things. Some things will stick. Some things will stink. But some will shine brightly."


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Icon




> Thanks for the article. It pretty much states the dismal state of comics at DC and Marvel Comics.
>
> "Of course, from such bedlam and mayhem, often comes inspired madness and creativity. Right now, the place is reminiscent of Jemas era Marvel – no one knows what to do or what is expected of them. Some creators have expressed despair to me, others see an opportunity to do something fresh and exciting in 2008. They are trying lots of things. Some things will stick. Some things will stink. But some will shine brightly."

Surely some stinkers and some gold is better than overall churned out dross?


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Superman's Pal




> The thing is, I can grasp why Morrison might have plotted things that way. He set up the idea that humanity is the heir to the Fourth World and the New Gods in both his JLA run (Protex: "Creatures that were supposed to be gods ended up being mere humans."/Metron: "You are the forerunners."/Humanity becoming supoerhumans during the Mageddon conflict.) and Seven Soldiers (The New Gods create the god-hero Aurakles/Shilo Norman apparently becomes a full-fledged god.).

That was also the point of the Millennium crossover in 1988, that Earth was to be the next world in the cosmos to produce godlike beings capable of influencing the universe.





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Omar Karindu




> > The thing is, I can grasp why Morrison might have plotted things that way. He set up the idea that humanity is the heir to the Fourth World and the New Gods in both his JLA run (Protex: "Creatures that were supposed to be gods ended up being mere humans."/Metron: "You are the forerunners."/Humanity becoming supoerhumans during the Mageddon conflict.) and Seven Soldiers (The New Gods create the god-hero Aurakles/Shilo Norman apparently becomes a full-fledged god.).
>
> That was also the point of the Millennium crossover in 1988, that Earth was to be the next world in the cosmos to produce godlike beings capable of influencing the universe.
>
>
>


Though the writer of Milennium and the followup New Guardians series chucked this all out by having a bunch of lab-created mutates turn out to be the actual New Guardian cadnidates rather than the...err New Guardians themselves.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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jwd




> > > Oh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
> >
> > Actually, this makes it sound more like they were actual plans that the higher-ups at TW scotched as soon as they had "trickled up" the management chain.
>
>
> Nice to see upper management doing something right. Kudos to whoever made the decision.
>
> It amazes me how DC staffers continually want to mimick Marvel. Captain America is dead, and it looks like Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) will replace him. So let's kill Batman and have Jason Todd replace him! Monkey see, monkey do. I say kill the monkey. I don't want DC to mimick Marvel. I dropped Marvel out of disgust. I want DC to be different.

It would've been temporary. It reminds me to much of Knightfall. Bruce Wayne's back is broken ascends to become a New God. He's replaced by Jean Paul Jason who unlike Bruce is willing to kill.

I'm not suprised this idea was scrapped though. Especially with them putting their 2nd movie out and trying to keep the franchise continuing.

jwd



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Icon




> Though the writer of Milennium and the followup New Guardians series chucked this all out by having a bunch of lab-created mutates turn out to be the actual New Guardian cadnidates rather than the...err New Guardians themselves.

Though to be fair, considering that the New Guardians were pretty much all walking national stereotypes (RAM - Japanese guy - Electronic manipulator, Betty - Aboriginal Australian - Linked to dreamtime, Gloss - Chinese woman - Linked to "Dragon lines of force"), I think I'd rather be represented by the lab-created mutates...


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Superman's Pal




> > > The thing is, I can grasp why Morrison might have plotted things that way. He set up the idea that humanity is the heir to the Fourth World and the New Gods in both his JLA run (Protex: "Creatures that were supposed to be gods ended up being mere humans."/Metron: "You are the forerunners."/Humanity becoming supoerhumans during the Mageddon conflict.) and Seven Soldiers (The New Gods create the god-hero Aurakles/Shilo Norman apparently becomes a full-fledged god.).
> >
> > That was also the point of the Millennium crossover in 1988, that Earth was to be the next world in the cosmos to produce godlike beings capable of influencing the universe.
>
> Though the writer of Milennium and the followup New Guardians series chucked this all out by having a bunch of lab-created mutates turn out to be the actual New Guardian cadnidates rather than the...err New Guardians themselves.

I thought the point of the New Guardians was not that they were the next evolution of man but rather they were just to be the guardians or caretakers who prepared the world for the coming of the next evolution. I didn't read enough of the New Guardians series to know if this next evolution ever came or what it was ... if it was just a bunch of lab-created mutates as you say, that kind of sucks. But it was never meant to be the New Guardians themselves, was it?





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Blue Beetle




> Yeah, someone on the boards told me that the original rumor/plan was to have Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman become the New Gods. I like the idea in a small way. I think it would have been better if this happened to the Earth-2/Golden Age heroes though.


Earth-2 Batman as the first NEW New God would be awesome. Superman and Wonder Woman are already so godlike that their apotheosis would seem anticlimactic unless they actually become omnipotent. But Earth-2 Batman? That works. I like it. Especially since his interactions with Earth-1 Batman would be fun.

By the way, wouldn't it be wild if the Phantom Stranger were actually a NEW New God with the power to time travel?



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MSL




> Thanks for the article. It pretty much states the dismal state of comics at DC and Marvel Comics.
>
> "Of course, from such bedlam and mayhem, often comes inspired madness and creativity. Right now, the place is reminiscent of Jemas era Marvel � no one knows what to do or what is expected of them. Some creators have expressed despair to me, others see an opportunity to do something fresh and exciting in 2008. They are trying lots of things. Some things will stick. Some things will stink. But some will shine brightly."

This ain't close to the mess Jemas made, that guy knew how to screw things up and alienate fans better than the color white sticks to rice!

MSL \:\)


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Goo Girl




What's true now may not be by the time January rolls around. \:\-\)


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