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Blue Jay




Seriously, I want to know if Morrison is just nuts.

I just heard about Batman being drugged, hallucinating, and thinking he is afrom another planet while Nightwing is locked up in Arkham Asylum and some Doctor Hurt dresses up in Thomas Wayne's Batman costume declaring the Batcave his new criminal base.

I am supposed to believe not only that Batman is drugged, but that he doesn't have a clue he is drugged, and that he doesn't have an antidote for the drug on his belt.

Also, that Nightwing was taken down by a Doctor, I mean a Doctor.

Then that Batman's greatest enemy ever is some Doctor, a guy that Batman normally could take out just by looking at him the wrong way, but here a regular nobody villain has done the impossible, destroyed the Batman and taken over the Batcave, something that not even Batman's entire Rouge Gallery combined could do.

Morrison is just plain insane and DC needs to be locked up for letting him have the reins to Batman.


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> Morrison is just plain insane and DC needs to be locked up for letting him have the reins to Batman.

OR... certain fans might actually need to read the stories they are bashing before drawing any conclusions, so they know what they are talking about \:\-\)

Tenz.



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Blue Jay




I have been there and done that.

I have heard several bad comic book stories been defended as the greatest stuff of all time, then I have gone to read the comic book story only to have my brain hurt from the sheer toxic waste of ludicrous unreasonable festering plague.


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> I have been there and done that.
>
> I have heard several bad comic book stories been defended as the greatest stuff of all time, then I have gone to read the comic book story only to have my brain hurt from the sheer toxic waste of ludicrous unreasonable festering plague.

I'm not saying that you SHOULD read the story. If it is not to your liking then it is not to your liking and that's perfectly ok. What I don't get though is the complaints about the story, that HAD you read it you'd know it is nothing like what you complain about.

Tenz.



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Blue Jay




Let us just say I been through this before.

I heard some folks defend Loeb's work as some great stuff, even though from a glance you could tell it was garbage.

I read up on several negative complaints on Loeb's work which all were sensible complaints and not merely people complaining for no reason.

Then I read Loeb's work and my brain hurt from the utter madness.

The point is, you can usually spot feces a mile away.

Morrison's work on Batman is feces.

Reading it will only get me too close to the feces to be safe for me. \:\)


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> I heard some folks defend Loeb's work as some great stuff, even though from a glance you could tell it was garbage.

I agree that sometimes it is easy to spot if something is good or bad. However, in your initial post you complain about specific things in a story that don't really hold up had you read the story. You might STILL not like the story even if you had read it but you'd know that you were complaining about stuff that in the context of the story just don't hold up, so saying that Morrison is crazy because of these things would be like me saying he was crazy because he thought apples were oranges even though I didn't even know if he thought that, but only because I usually don't like what he is doing.

Tenz.



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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


> Seriously, I want to know if Morrison is just nuts.
>
> I just heard about Batman being drugged, hallucinating, and thinking he is afrom another planet while Nightwing is locked up in Arkham Asylum and some Doctor Hurt dresses up in Thomas Wayne's Batman costume declaring the Batcave his new criminal base.
>
> I am supposed to believe not only that Batman is drugged, but that he doesn't have a clue he is drugged, and that he doesn't have an antidote for the drug on his belt.
>
> Also, that Nightwing was taken down by a Doctor, I mean a Doctor.
>
> Then that Batman's greatest enemy ever is some Doctor, a guy that Batman normally could take out just by looking at him the wrong way, but here a regular nobody villain has done the impossible, destroyed the Batman and taken over the Batcave, something that not even Batman's entire Rouge Gallery combined could do.
>
> Morrison is just plain insane and DC needs to be locked up for letting him have the reins to Batman.





- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


And he DEFINITELY wouldn't have some brand-new villain no one's ever heard of just waltz into the Batcave....




- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



Using examples from the books themselves have never been fair. How are we supposed to just assume things if we can actually see the facts? You are the Ruinator of all good message board debate \:\-\)

Tenz.



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Blue Jay




Morrison's writing is sloppy and worse still it goes against the very core of the established Batman character.

Batman isn't some rookie just starting out that can get taken down easily.

Batman is a professional, a near god like entity contained in a human body.

Yes, he has his limits and his weaknesses but he compensates for those with technology, advanced medicine, a photographic memory, and knowledge about nearly everything.

Batman is the equivalent of a universal representation of DC and here DC has ruined their own iconic symbol.

It is just plain nuts.


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Blue Jay




Thanks you proved my point.

Notice Batman knew he was hallucinating.

Also, it took electricity in one instance and a super strong guy surprising Batman in another instance to take him down.

Laslty, Ras Al Ghul had been mentioned before he walked into the Batcave.

Finally, Batman took down all these characters shortly afterwards like nothing and they didn't even really hurt Batman.

Thanks.


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> Thanks you proved my point.

Actually no it didn't. In the Morrison story there is a perfectly good explaination as well, so your complaint still amounts to you not having read the story.

Tenz.



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spiderprince





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Blue Jay




Also, if you check out Denny O'Neil's Birth of the Demon from 1989 and Steve Englehart's Dark Detective you will find that Batman has evolved from the 1970s to be stronger, faster, quicker and more prepared for any eventuality.

If I read Morrison's stuff and I find it beyond horrible will you admit the same and give up reading it?


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Blue Jay




Last I heard most people that have been reading the comic, didn't even notice how Bruce got poisoned and again he had no protection against it.

Check out Steve Englehart's Dark Detective for the real way to do such a scenario.


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killer shrike




Morrison is responsible for the creation of the "Bat-God" aura by how he portrayed him in JLA, which to me is more annoying than seeing him have to struggle to win.

I, for one, have no problem seeing the character taken down a few pegs, since it humanizes him. I'm also glad he's avoiding a lot of the tradtional rogues since they are overused.



> Seriously, I want to know if Morrison is just nuts.
>
> I just heard about Batman being drugged, hallucinating, and thinking he is afrom another planet while Nightwing is locked up in Arkham Asylum and some Doctor Hurt dresses up in Thomas Wayne's Batman costume declaring the Batcave his new criminal base.
>
> I am supposed to believe not only that Batman is drugged, but that he doesn't have a clue he is drugged, and that he doesn't have an antidote for the drug on his belt.
>
> Also, that Nightwing was taken down by a Doctor, I mean a Doctor.
>
> Then that Batman's greatest enemy ever is some Doctor, a guy that Batman normally could take out just by looking at him the wrong way, but here a regular nobody villain has done the impossible, destroyed the Batman and taken over the Batcave, something that not even Batman's entire Rouge Gallery combined could do.
>
> Morrison is just plain insane and DC needs to be locked up for letting him have the reins to Batman.



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Blue Jay





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Blue Jay




So he screwed up Batman twice.

First, he made him invincible, then he made him a weakling.


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killer shrike




> So he screwed up Batman twice.
>
> First, he made him invincible, then he made him a weakling.


How can you say Morrison screwed up Batman twice if you like seeing him as the "a near god like entity contained in a human body" he was in JLA? It would seem to me that portrayal is what you were looking for.


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Blue Jay




No.

I want to see Batman as Batman, no more no less.

See Birth of the Demon, Dark Detective and Blind Justice for the definitive Batman.

I want to see Batman act like a powerful Batman with his weaknesses which he perserveres over.

I don't want to see him be a god and I don't want to see him be taken down like some rookie.


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> I don't want to see him be a god and I don't want to see him be taken down like some rookie.

But that's just it. He is NOT taken down like just some rookie. That's what I keep telling you. You are complaining based on a lot of assumptions and hearsay and not what is actually in the book.

The first time we saw Ra's Al Ghul he didn't exactly come off as a someone who could be a match for Batman, but as the story went on we learned more about him and he grew as a character. At this point we don't know a lot about the Black Glove so to say that Black Glove taking Batman down through some agents is the same as Batman being taken down like some rookie is jumping to conclusions about the character.

You don't like Morrison and his writing and that's perfectly ok, but that doesn't make your statements about the story any more true.

Tenz.



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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> If I read Morrison's stuff and I find it beyond horrible will you admit the same and give up reading it?

Nope. If you read it and don't like it, you don't like it. There's nothing I can do about that, but that doesn't mean I'd have to dislike it. And as I've said several times already I don't really care whether or not you read it or not, or whether or not you like it. I just wanted to point out that your assumptions on what happens in the story and that it makes Batman out to be some kind of rookie is just not true.

Tenz.



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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> Last I heard most people that have been reading the comic, didn't even notice how Bruce got poisoned and again he had no protection against it.

I guess they just have to go and read the story again then, cause how he is poisoned is shown clearly in the book (even if it is mostly in black and red colors). And you can't have protection against all kinds of poison in your body. Most of the time it needs to be administered AFTER getting poisoned and if you are out cold that's pretty hard to do.

Tenz.



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Blue Jay




It is a gimmick.

Ras Al Ghul was mentioned before he appeared and you could tell from the start he wasn't your typical villain.

He also went head to head with Batman several times.

You call not having a clue, being unprepared, and being taken out by henchmen not being a rookie?

It is rookie material.

Morrison is treating Batman as a weakling.




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Blue Jay




Assumptions?

It sounds like a clear case.

If I read it and come to the same conclusion, will you then admit Morrison is treating Batman like a rookie?


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spiderprince




> It is a gimmick.
>
> Ras Al Ghul was mentioned before he appeared and you could tell from the start he wasn't your typical villain.

Black Glove was also mentioend numerous times before he even went up against Batman.
>
> He also went head to head with Batman several times.

But he had to start somewhere. Thats where Black Glove is.
>
> You call not having a clue, being unprepared, and being taken out by henchmen not being a rookie?

1) He knew something was going on, didn't know what
2) Underprepared? I guess you were talking about the poison. The guys a doctor, and he injected Bruce with some new form of heroin he's developed. How's Bruce supposed to be prepared for that?
3) We can actually attribute that more to him already being in a bad mental state. Plus these guys are obviously top tier guys to have also taken down Nightwing. Throw even more at Batman at a bad time and he's going to lose.

> Morrison is treating Batman as a weakling.

Just read the book dude.
>
>



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Blue Jay




Black Glove is a group, not the villain.

Further, Batman agreeing to being put in a deprivation tank with some wacky doctor and then not having a clue about it later is beyond lunacy.

Morrison takes these elements of the Silver Age way to seriously, their is a reason why DC got rid of them in the first place.


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Tenzel Kim

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Jul 30, 1997
Posts: 223



> Ras Al Ghul was mentioned before he appeared and you could tell from the start he wasn't your typical villain.

Ras Al Ghul was mentioned once before he showed up in Batman #232 so I don't see how that is actually much different. If anything the Black Glove has been given a lot more build-up than Ra's got. Also based on the evidence so far I don't see how you can say that the Black Glove is "your typical villain".

> You call not having a clue, being unprepared, and being taken out by henchmen not being a rookie?
>
> It is rookie material.

I'd say that all depends on the master villain and the henchmen. With enough preparation I don't see why he shouldn't be able to take Batman out using henchmen. Actually it wasn't the henchmen that took him out but you'd know that if you had read the story \:\-\)

> Morrison is treating Batman as a weakling.

Based on what exactly? Not the comic at least.

Tenz.



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spiderprince




> Black Glove is a group, not the villain.

You know who I meant.

> Further, Batman agreeing to being put in a deprivation tank with some wacky doctor and then not having a clue about it later is beyond lunacy.
>
> Morrison takes these elements of the Silver Age way to seriously, their is a reason why DC got rid of them in the first place.

Like I said I'm not sold on the idea either, but I'm interested enough at this point. I don't think its nearly as atrocious as you say, but if answers and clarity aren't soon forthcoming then I'm out.

Oh and a correction to my previous post, it was weapons grade crystal meth (street heroin) that Bruce was shot up with.


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Icon




> Assumptions?
>
> It sounds like a clear case.

And therein lies our problem with your argument. "Sounds" does not equal "is". You are allowing preconceptions and other peoples opinions to make your choices, instead of making up your own mind after readinf it.

> If I read it and come to the same conclusion, will you then admit Morrison is treating Batman like a rookie?

No, because it'll only be an opinion, and as we have tried to make clear to you many, many, MANY times, your opinion does not magically become a fact. Neither does ours.

However, we would be more likely to take your opinions seriously if they were based on informed reading, rather than mass assumption.


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darth-sinister




> Seriously, I want to know if Morrison is just nuts.
>

No, but he did take a lot of drugs in his life. So there is that.


> I just heard about Batman being drugged, hallucinating, and thinking he is afrom another planet while Nightwing is locked up in Arkham Asylum and some Doctor Hurt dresses up in Thomas Wayne's Batman costume declaring the Batcave his new criminal base.
>
> I am supposed to believe not only that Batman is drugged, but that he doesn't have a clue he is drugged, and that he doesn't have an antidote for the drug on his belt.
>

Yep.

> Also, that Nightwing was taken down by a Doctor, I mean a Doctor.
>
> Then that Batman's greatest enemy ever is some Doctor, a guy that Batman normally could take out just by looking at him the wrong way, but here a regular nobody villain has done the impossible, destroyed the Batman and taken over the Batcave, something that not even Batman's entire Rouge Gallery combined could do.
>

A doctor who has spent a lot of time preparing for this. He has outsmarted even the great Batman.


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