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Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html


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Kory Stephens

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! why,god,why?! :*(



> Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?
>
> http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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Zeroun




I've got a bad feeling about this. And by 'bad' I mean 'Brand New Day'.


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Captain Kazmir




Marvel has been blowing away DC for the last few months in the sales department. I think DC needs to basically start from scratch if they hope to catch them.

The DC comics I have read lately just seem to be going thru the motions. Perhaps a company wide reboot like back in 1987 is needed.




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Stupid Baby


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,121


> I've got a bad feeling about this. And by 'bad' I mean 'Brand New Day'.


aw crap, I dont want to stop collecting Batman like I had to do for Spiderman




"I would never want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member" - Groucho Marx
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Stupid Baby


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,121


> Marvel has been blowing away DC for the last few months in the sales department.

see, I keep hearing that, yet everyone I know who collects comics, doesnt like Marvel now becuase of Mr Quesada.


I think DC needs to basically start from scratch if they hope to catch them.
>
> The DC comics I have read lately just seem to be going thru the motions. Perhaps a company wide reboot like back in 1987 is needed.
>
>





"I would never want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member" - Groucho Marx
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ditko




>Hmm.. hopefully they have something cool planned. I like reading a lot of DC titles. Marvel? I don't think there is one Marvel title I actually enjoy reading monthly, if at all.

DC actually makes comic books and I think they are fun. They don't make comics to promote movies or look like them. If they start mimicing Marvel, then I see that as a bad thing.


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Knightwing




> >Hmm.. hopefully they have something cool planned. I like reading a lot of DC titles. Marvel? I don't think there is one Marvel title I actually enjoy reading monthly, if at all.
>
> DC actually makes comic books and I think they are fun. They don't make comics to promote movies or look like them. If they start mimicing Marvel, then I see that as a bad thing.

I agree, after being a hard core marvelite for 18 plus years, over the last few years I have come to read ONLY DC, marvel just isn't what they think they are, or used to be.


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nightshadow124




> > >Hmm.. hopefully they have something cool planned. I like reading a lot of DC titles. Marvel? I don't think there is one Marvel title I actually enjoy reading monthly, if at all.
> >
> > DC actually makes comic books and I think they are fun. They don't make comics to promote movies or look like them. If they start mimicing Marvel, then I see that as a bad thing.
>
> I agree, after being a hard core marvelite for 18 plus years, over the last few years I have come to read ONLY DC, marvel just isn't what they think they are, or used to be.

And you are free to have your opinion but if you look at the sales numbers, Marvel is kicking DC's butt. I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but I remember looking at the sales numbers and there are very few DCs books in the top 20.


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ditko




> > >Hmm.. hopefully they have something cool planned. I like reading a lot of DC titles. Marvel? I don't think there is one Marvel title I actually enjoy reading monthly, if at all.
> >
> > DC actually makes comic books and I think they are fun. They don't make comics to promote movies or look like them. If they start mimicing Marvel, then I see that as a bad thing.
>
> I agree, after being a hard core marvelite for 18 plus years, over the last few years I have come to read ONLY DC, marvel just isn't what they think they are, or used to be.

So it's not just me, eh? I once loved Marvel, and while part of me perhaps has grown out of it, I overall just feel their books are not comic books anymore. They're a licensing company now.


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ditko




>
>
> And you are free to have your opinion but if you look at the sales numbers, Marvel is kicking DC's butt. I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but I remember looking at the sales numbers and there are very few DCs books in the top 20.


I'm not disputing the sales, those are facts. And I'm (sadly) not surprised. Most agree artistic integrity was at an all time low in the early '90s. Bt it was a boom for sales. I'm not sure Watchmen, From Hell, Maus or myriad Vertigo titles sold in the top 10 or 20 either. My point is that Marvel's books aren't really fun for me anymore and I just don't think they're making cmics anymore, not like I knew them. I'm glad people still dig 'em though. It just have that same feeling for me.


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Christopher the Archangel




According to comicbookresources.com, in an interview with tomasi and necieza, this was planned from the beginning. so there are likely to be numbers one's on the way and the characters being used and growing into newer roles. but these book are all below the 40 000 sales mark, and DC is suffering a 20% market share gap to Marvl, aprox. 52% marvel, 28-30% dc. and dc has totally screwed what was built into infinate crisis when they were neck in neck wiht marvel fans and all the marvel fans i knew were also buying dc. but after infinate crisis, they called it quits. it seems to be a bit of a quality issue, while marvel explore (with some notable exceptions) characters, dc continues with the same old, same old, hell, i usually grab 30% dc and 70 % marvel, but now it's getting way to lopsided with marvel because i have dropped several books, and then they fired dixon for no good reason. personally i think it was politics, and then shooter.

right now i'm getting:

batman
jsa
gl
gl corpse
action comics (depending on the story)

dropped:

jla
outsiders (damn you didio!!)
nightwing
robin
detective

marvel:

dd
captain america
uncanny x-men
wolverine
wolvie. origins
new avengers
mighty avengers
ff
u. spidey
iron man
amazing spidey (only dan slott stories)
thunderbolts
si and most tie ins (black panther and thor were great)
hulk


the imballence is awful and dc needs to get its act together. dude, without morrison and johns i'd only be buying green lantern corpse. that is sad. and marvel just signed john hickman, while dc has fired dixon, which sucks because i just realized how good he was on outsiders, and now he will be doing gi joe, so dynamite *(i think) will be getting cash from me now. the imballence is bad.



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Christopher the Archangel




They have just moved ahead and i for like most of it. I just don't see dc actually moving ahead. They seem to have squandered most of what was built out their pre-infinate crisis stories and it's sad.
However, marvel has decided to bring people in with hard edged contriversial stories, something dc did well in the late 80s.

and watchmen, followed a very peculiar cycle because everybody bought the first issue or so, lost interest, then heard how good the rest of it was and came back, causing higher sales by the series end, and then the graphics sold out of control, like dark knight did. This was the time when man of steel was pretty big, along with batman year one, the giffen justice league, and a few other projects like morrison's animal man and doom patrol or starlin's batman. but now dc seems to serve mediocrity on many books, outsiders was thrown to the dogs, but i'm looking forward to tomasi's run on it, flash seems blah to me, jla isn't interesting at all, supergirl has always been a mediocre book, and most of the others are similar. DC needs more good writers then morrison and johns, they just got JMS, but then only gave him brave and the bold.


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christopher the archangel




> They have just moved ahead and i for like most of it. I just don't see dc actually moving ahead. They seem to have squandered most of what was built out their pre-infinate crisis stories and it's sad.
> However, marvel has decided to bring people in with hard edged contriversial stories, something dc did well in the late 80s.
>
> and watchmen, followed a very peculiar cycle because everybody bought the first issue or so, lost interest, then heard how good the rest of it was and came back, causing higher sales by the series end, and then the graphics sold out of control, like dark knight did. This was the time when man of steel was pretty big, along with batman year one, the giffen justice league, and a few other projects like morrison's animal man and doom patrol or starlin's batman. but now dc seems to serve mediocrity on many books, outsiders was thrown to the dogs, but i'm looking forward to tomasi's run on it, flash seems blah to me, jla isn't interesting at all, supergirl has always been a mediocre book, and most of the others are similar. DC needs more good writers then morrison and johns, they just got JMS, but then only gave him brave and the bold.



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ditko




> They have just moved ahead and i for like most of it. I just don't see dc actually moving ahead. They seem to have squandered most of what was built out their pre-infinate crisis stories and it's sad.
> However, marvel has decided to bring people in with hard edged contriversial stories, something dc did well in the late 80s.
> .......
>to me, jla isn't interesting at all, supergirl has always been a mediocre book, and most of the others are similar. DC needs more good writers then morrison and johns, they just got JMS, but then only gave him brave and the bold.

Maybe my problem is that Marvel has moved on. Interesting. I have an affinity for their characters as do many others. However, Spider-man is their anchor and I'm not sure I can ever forgive them for OMD. X-Men have grown up as have The Avengers. I think I've outgrown the X-Men.

DC does need more talent. Wizard's Top Ten artists/writers are loaded with Marvel. Maybe JMS will help. I will say that GL, JSA and Detective Comics are books I find fun. Rogue's Revenge is cool and the new Flash I bet will be fun. Final Crisis is my favorite book right now.

Guess it's just opinions. Marvel maybe got a little stale to me and Spider-man just killed it. But there's probably people who feel the reverse.


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jwd





In Captain America they kill off Steve Rogers and replace him with a character they pretty much pulled out of the 1940s or won readers have thought dead for that long.

So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up. Or I suppose it could be Jason Todd possibly. Another character people had thought dead for awhile.

Really I think cancelling these 3 titles and launching whatever they have planned isn't gonna help them at all. More often than not these days people take cancelled/start new titles as a good jumping off point.



jwd




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darth-sinister




>
> In Captain America they kill off Steve Rogers and replace him with a character they pretty much pulled out of the 1940s or won readers have thought dead for that long.
>
> So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up. Or I suppose it could be Jason Todd possibly. Another character people had thought dead for awhile.
>
> Really I think cancelling these 3 titles and launching whatever they have planned isn't gonna help them at all. More often than not these days people take cancelled/start new titles as a good jumping off point.
>
>
>

>

Except this isn't copying Captain America. It's copying the Knight Trilogy, but putting a different spin on it. Morrison had this in place since 05.


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Icon




> So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up.

I can think of few things that would alienate readers more. Not only not Bruce Wayne, but not even any of the characters we know, but an overly convenient time travelling version of one of them that we know nothing about the evolution of?

> Really I think cancelling these 3 titles and launching whatever they have planned isn't gonna help them at all. More often than not these days people take cancelled/start new titles as a good jumping off point.

Sad, but true.


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OB




> Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?
>
> http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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Gawain




> > Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?
> >
> > http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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Icon




> > > Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?
> > >
> > > http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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Knightwing




.


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Racer Cool




> Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it?
>
> http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html

Batman title changes that I heard:

1. Batman -----> Batman & Robin (Dick Grayson as Batman and Daimain as Robin)

2. Robin -----> Red Robin (either Tim Drake or Jason Todd)

3. Nightwing -----> Nightwing & Flamebird (Actually a Superman title now)

4. Birds of Prey -----> Batwoman (may not be Kathy Kane)




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christopher the archangel




it's in interview with Quesada and Jemas about the early years of the ultimate line. its on comic book resources as a two part interview:

Ultimate Bill Jemas & Joe Quesada, Part's I & II

but dude, what happened with alot of characters went wrong. but they did crazy in the 80s too.


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CensusTaker




> > > >Hmm.. hopefully they have something cool planned. I like reading a lot of DC titles. Marvel? I don't think there is one Marvel title I actually enjoy reading monthly, if at all.
> > >
> > > DC actually makes comic books and I think they are fun. They don't make comics to promote movies or look like them. If they start mimicing Marvel, then I see that as a bad thing.
> >
> > I agree, after being a hard core marvelite for 18 plus years, over the last few years I have come to read ONLY DC, marvel just isn't what they think they are, or used to be.
>
> So it's not just me, eh? I once loved Marvel, and while part of me perhaps has grown out of it, I overall just feel their books are not comic books anymore. They're a licensing company now..

You look at the flagship titels- New & Mighty Avengers, the X-men, Spideman, Iron Man... but some of the `fringe' material `gaurdians of the gallaxy' `immortal iron fist' & `incredible hercules' particularly are still fun rollicking comics in the mighty marvel manner. Still, except for the two batman titles and two of the above marvel, I mainly read indi titles and classics trades anyway!


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OB




>  >  > Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it? >  >  >  >  >  > http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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jwd





> >
> > In Captain America they kill off Steve Rogers and replace him with a character they pretty much pulled out of the 1940s or won readers have thought dead for that long.
> >
> > So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up. Or I suppose it could be Jason Todd possibly. Another character people had thought dead for awhile.
> >
> > Really I think cancelling these 3 titles and launching whatever they have planned isn't gonna help them at all. More often than not these days people take cancelled/start new titles as a good jumping off point.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >

>
> Except this isn't copying Captain America. It's copying the Knight Trilogy, but putting a different spin on it. Morrison had this in place since 05.

And Knight trilogy could be considered copying the Death of Superman - Replacing a known hero with someone or several othters. In regards to Captain America I meant replacing the hero (Captain America/Batman) with a former partner (Bucky/Jason Todd) thought dead. Either that or instead of being replaced by a partner from their past, a partner from the future (future Tim we've seen in stories with the future Titans perhaps.





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jwd





> > So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up.
>
> I can think of few things that would alienate readers more. Not only not Bruce Wayne, but not even any of the characters we know, but an overly convenient time travelling version of one of them that we know nothing about the evolution of?

Well people still seem to be loving what's happening with Bucky as Cap as far as I can tell.

As a permanent replacement I agree. Putting anyone but Bruce Wayne under the cowl permanently is a bad idea. If it was temporary though and being its Batman I think anyone knows it would be temporary I think it'll just depend on the kinds of stories they tell.

jwd




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Icon




> >  >  > Just screams "Marketing ploy" doesn't it? >  >  >  >  >  > http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110804-GothamCancellations.html



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darth-sinister




>
> > >
> > > In Captain America they kill off Steve Rogers and replace him with a character they pretty much pulled out of the 1940s or won readers have thought dead for that long.
> > >
> > > So for Batman they're not killing off Bruce Wayne but what if they replace him with Tim Drake. Not the current Tim Drake but one from an alternate future we've seen pop up. Or I suppose it could be Jason Todd possibly. Another character people had thought dead for awhile.
> > >
> > > Really I think cancelling these 3 titles and launching whatever they have planned isn't gonna help them at all. More often than not these days people take cancelled/start new titles as a good jumping off point.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >

> >
> > Except this isn't copying Captain America. It's copying the Knight Trilogy, but putting a different spin on it. Morrison had this in place since 05.
>
> And Knight trilogy could be considered copying the Death of Superman - Replacing a known hero with someone or several othters.

Except that the Knight Trilogy was being planned at the same time as the Superman arc was. Superman just got out there first.

>In regards to Captain America I meant replacing the hero (Captain America/Batman) with a former partner (Bucky/Jason Todd) thought dead. Either that or instead of being replaced by a partner from their past, a partner from the future (future Tim we've seen in stories with the future Titans perhaps.
>
>

For all we know, there is no replacing.


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Victor




I don't begrudge you your right to not like Nightwing and I think your description correctly describes certain arcs when he has been mishandled by the creative team du jour. But it seems like if you're going to take the time to slam the character and not just his handling, you should at least attempt to offer a coherent impeachment.

Otherwise, what's to discuss and why bothering posting? I mean, what character is "necessary"?

Victor


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