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Author
Keith




Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.


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Maestro




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.

Although I don't quite agree, the prevailing wisdom here is that Bill's cyborg enhancements make him the stronger and tougher of the two. As far as Godblasts go... Both hammers have the exact same properties so BRB should be able to do a GB too.


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nightman




it has never been proven that bill is stronger than thor; yes, he won one battle, but thor has beaten him as well. They are about equal in strength.


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Darth Fear-ious




he knows no magic. Thor has to say certain magic spells to call forth his godly essence, which then, allows it to mingle with the hammer.


Great as Bill is, he is still mortal. Doing such a feat would undoubtedly kill him. Assuming of course he could even muster enough soul aura to do anything to begin with.


*****************************************************************************************






"And they complained when I smacked my wife."




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God Dragon




> > Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.
>
> Although I don't quite agree, the prevailing wisdom here is that Bill's cyborg enhancements make him the stronger and tougher of the two. As far as Godblasts go... Both hammers have the exact same properties so BRB should be able to do a GB too.

Bill only won his first fight with Thor because Thor reverted to Donald Blake in the midst of their struggle, which made him easy prey. Bill himself acknowledged that the only reason Bill won their second fight was because he recovered first (Bill and Thor had knocked each other out). And Bill also acknowledged that the only reason he recovered first was because Bill's physiognomy allows him to use low levels of heat (which was all around him, due to the fact that Odin intentionally sent Bill and Thor to a very hot location for their fight) to revive him. So really, Bill and Thor are physical equals in strength and durability (in subsequent battles, Thor has won, but you could argue that's because Thor was stark raving mad and Bill was trying to reason with him).

As for whether Bill can use the godblast, etc., I honestly don't know. Bill hammer is certainly the equal of Mjolnir. But if the god blast is calling upon Thor's immortal essence, then I agree Bill can't use that power, because he's not immortal.


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Bootch




> Thor has to say certain magic spells to call forth his godly essence, which then, allows it to mingle with the hammer.

Why does this post sound so erotic?

*love*


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God Dragon




> > Thor has to say certain magic spells to call forth his godly essence, which then, allows it to mingle with the hammer.
>
> Why does this post sound so erotic?
>
> *love*


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Daveym




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.


Well, my personal view is that Bill may well be physically stronger due to his nature as a cyborg.
He was granted the power of Thor on top of his natural Cyborg enhancments so do the math on that... the original Marvel.com entry for him actually stated this detail in his entry: Beta Ray Bill - Bill has obtained powers and physical attributes similar to Thor, augmenting his already powerful cyborg body. He is very strong, nearly invulnerable, immune to disease, and is virtually immortal.

Regardless though we know thaat Bill has enourmous energy projection powers like Thor, whether these come from him or his hammer is unclear but I would assume as a proper God and son of Odin Thor would have to be fundamentally more powerful anyway....

Just take all these stats/handbook entries with the right defree of caution, none of Marvel.coms biography entries were very detailed or authoritive to begin with - likely there will be differing opinions with the writers anyway so it just depends who writes what entry.


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Tanthius




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.

So do you hate Marvel Thor too? Hating copies can really limit your scope of comic reading because I bet tons of characters you read are copies of another at some point. Heck Superman was a copy of a character in a book called Gladiator. Bill in his first appearance looks and acts and has none of the same powers as Thor. He's a completely different character. Odin saw him fit to bestow the power's of his son on him because he was such a noble being (and so that Thor could still be Thor). Bill's a pretty terrific character take a look at him through some un-jaded glasses and you might see something you like.

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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chen




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.
>
First off Bill and Thor have the exact same strength levels, no BS about Bill being stronger/durable because he's a cyborg. Before he gained Thor's powers he was strong enough to pose a threat to Thor but IMHO not as strong as Thor. When he gained Thor's powers he gained all of Thor's stats to the same degree (that's the whole point of being worthy of Mjolnir) not Thor's powers added to his own. If that were the case Bill would have smoked Thor in that one on one fight for Mjolnir but didn't and only lasted that one minute more because he's more adept at high tempretures (and Odin knew it would teach Thor a lesson that he could be beaten in a fight against an exact equal).

People who state that say that because they want to give Bill props but not Thor so they say he's stronger and more durable or he's a better fighter or blah blah which is unfair since Bill's only been in about thirty-forty comics and Thor's been well over a thousand so Thor has way more showing good and bad. Second Bill has shown every ability for EP as Thor with the exception of a Godblast, it still hasn't been confirmed if he can or cannot perform one. Besides those stats at Marvel.com is pure trash and should be taken with a VERY large grain of salt.


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Keith




You don't make a very compelling argument. Thor in the conext of a comic was an original. Using an "archetype" in a contemporary medium is not the same kind of hackneyed writing as taking that concept and copying it in the same medium over and over. Thor-girl, Cyborg Thor, Future Thor, Norvell Thor, etc. etc. It is uncreative writing. Instead of creating context and depth for the original concept of Thor, the writers say...let's make a cyborg, let's make a human copy, let's (fill in the blank).

And by the way, I do see copies everywhere. And I hate them everywhere. If I see one original idea in a movie, I don't need another 10 that are for all purporses the same. If there is a successful tv show, I don't like seeing literal 40 or 50 knock-offs of the same idea. If I drive to a small town, I don't like seeing it swamped with the same soul-numbing ubiquitous chain stores.



> > Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.
>
> So do you hate Marvel Thor too? Hating copies can really limit your scope of comic reading because I bet tons of characters you read are copies of another at some point. Heck Superman was a copy of a character in a book called Gladiator. Bill in his first appearance looks and acts and has none of the same powers as Thor. He's a completely different character. Odin saw him fit to bestow the power's of his son on him because he was such a noble being (and so that Thor could still be Thor). Bill's a pretty terrific character take a look at him through some un-jaded glasses and you might see something you like.
>
> "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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nightman




no matter what you say, bill is thor's equal in strength, not superior. *rhe*


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Daveym




> no matter what you say, bill is thor's equal in strength, not superior. *rhe*

Really?! What's your proof for that then?

Did I actually say Bill was definitly stronger than Thor? No.
What i said is that the available evidence would suggest he is and even backed it with a scan of Bills own verdict, so if you believe he is no stronger then by all means please disclose the proof of it.

Don't just say it as if it's fact when all it is is your opinion - I want you to PROVE it.




"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Maestro




> > Thor has to say certain magic spells to call forth his godly essence, which then, allows it to mingle with the hammer.
>
> Why does this post sound so erotic?
>
> *love*


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dave




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.

On that site, Spiderman has greater energy projection than the Sentry, who is supposedly a planet buster. I guess those webs are a bit tougher than we though, huh?




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nightman




you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.


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djcc




> > Thor has to say certain magic spells to call forth his godly essence, which then, allows it to mingle with the hammer.
>
> Why does this post sound so erotic?
>
> *love*

um -it didn't until you made the connection --whatchoo thinking Bootch? I hope Mrs. Bootch is OK with that...and then tonite you can be...

Beta Ray Bootch (and I'm not going there with the enchanted hammer thing......)


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Daveym




> you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.

> you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.

That was Blood & Thunder INSANE thor / That was also Bill wanting to HELP Thor not fight him.

And Yes I am implying i feel Bill >may< be stronger and you will note my wording to be quite precise on the point, I backed it up with a scan of Bills verdict and the fact is he IS a cyborg which logically must augment that power to some degree given Thors power on top of his own has to have an effect, as that very scan suggested.>
You in return are stating as FACT what is merely an opinion....!

So I ask again - where's your evidence he isn't any stronger?


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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bd2999




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.

They are comparable. The stats on Marvel.com are pretty bad overall. Sadly some of hte fan stats are better and more accurate. It just depends on who did it and so on. In theory I can say that Bill should be stronger but that does not seem to be the case.

Strength is about the same, they have fought before and seem equal. Speed wise they are about the same, the hammers are the same, and durability is about the same. I would say their EP level is the same (Bill used an unfocused god blast in Stormbreaker, when he defeated the one demon).

The thing is that Bill does not hold back against big foes as often as Thor does. Bill is more willing to use that mystical blast, while Thor will keep trying to show that he is the stronger of the two. Bill goes for the win quicker, so in most fights Bill would likely do similar to Thor, but has better odds due to using ep more often.


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Keith




What's the big deal about being part robot? Thor is a god, the child of Odin and Gea.

> > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
>
> > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
>
> That was Blood & Thunder INSANE thor / That was also Bill wanting to HELP Thor not fight him.
>
> And Yes I am implying i feel Bill >may< be stronger and you will note my wording to be quite precise on the point, I backed it up with a scan of Bills verdict and the fact is he IS a cyborg which logically must augment that power to some degree given Thors power on top of his own has to have an effect, as that very scan suggested.>
> You in return are stating as FACT what is merely an opinion....!
>
> So I ask again - where's your evidence he isn't any stronger?
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Daveym




> What's the big deal about being part robot? Thor is a god, the child of Odin and Gea.
>
And we know being son of Odin & Gaea doesn't mean you can beat Allcomers and Bill was giving him a fight even before he got the Hammer, upon lifting it he specifically states its effect!
My point is that Bill is a genetically engineered Cyborg with the power of Thor, are you saying that if Thor became a Cyborg too he would be no more powerful or effective, that it would make no difference? Being a cyborg makes no difference?
Did the power replace Bills own or did it add to it? That is the unanswered question, though Bill indicated it had added...

I'm not saying Bill is *definitly* stronger I'm pointing to the facts and evidence suggesting... that he could well be!


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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gumbo




Thor in the context of a comic wasn't original; he wasn't the first mythologically based hero or god to ever appear in comics, heck not even the first time the god Thor ever appeared in comics.

He bore some similarities to Captain Marvel, lightning signaling appearance, his alter ego like Captain Marvel Jr. was lame of leg.

He had the same color code as Superman for all intents and purposes, plus that cape.

Hardly the first uber powerful or plot device hero that used an item of some kind to draw his power from.

Fact is; like it or not the comic Thor is a knock off of the original mythological Thor with a little bit here and there thrown in from other sources.


> You don't make a very compelling argument. Thor in the conext of a comic was an original. Using an "archetype" in a contemporary medium is not the same kind of hackneyed writing as taking that concept and copying it in the same medium over and over. Thor-girl, Cyborg Thor, Future Thor, Norvell Thor, etc. etc. It is uncreative writing. Instead of creating context and depth for the original concept of Thor, the writers say...let's make a cyborg, let's make a human copy, let's (fill in the blank).
>
> And by the way, I do see copies everywhere. And I hate them everywhere. If I see one original idea in a movie, I don't need another 10 that are for all purporses the same. If there is a successful tv show, I don't like seeing literal 40 or 50 knock-offs of the same idea. If I drive to a small town, I don't like seeing it swamped with the same soul-numbing ubiquitous chain stores.
>
>
>
> > > Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.
> >
> > So do you hate Marvel Thor too? Hating copies can really limit your scope of comic reading because I bet tons of characters you read are copies of another at some point. Heck Superman was a copy of a character in a book called Gladiator. Bill in his first appearance looks and acts and has none of the same powers as Thor. He's a completely different character. Odin saw him fit to bestow the power's of his son on him because he was such a noble being (and so that Thor could still be Thor). Bill's a pretty terrific character take a look at him through some un-jaded glasses and you might see something you like.
> >
> > "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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Zarko




> What's the big deal about being part robot? Thor is a god, the child of Odin and Gea.

what does his heritage have anything to do with this? bill's strength WITHOUT the thorpower was close, if not equal to, that of thor. WITH the thorpower ADDED to it, the only logical conclusion is that he's now STRONGER than thor. he's not just a cyborg. he's a cyborg who's AS STRONG as thor who was further augmented by thor's very own power. it's basic math. thor strength = 100, cyborg bill strength = 99. 100 + 99 = 199! wowowewow we've learned to add!
>
> > > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
> >
> > > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
> >
> > That was Blood & Thunder INSANE thor / That was also Bill wanting to HELP Thor not fight him.
> >
> > And Yes I am implying i feel Bill >may< be stronger and you will note my wording to be quite precise on the point, I backed it up with a scan of Bills verdict and the fact is he IS a cyborg which logically must augment that power to some degree given Thors power on top of his own has to have an effect, as that very scan suggested.>
> > You in return are stating as FACT what is merely an opinion....!
> >
> > So I ask again - where's your evidence he isn't any stronger?
> >
> >
> > "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Zarko




> no matter what you say, bill is thor's equal in strength, not superior. *rhe*

...he's got you with this one. this clearly one of the better posts i've seen on this site. chalk full of evidence and issue references and what not.


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nightman




and i disagree with your opinion; as chen said, bill and thor are peers in strength, bill is not stronger than thor.


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Keith




Thor's godhood has been striped by Odin, leaving him with his natural strength, but without godly "enchantment" (i.e., storm powers, vortex's, energy blasts, mjolnir enchantments, etc.) Bill fought Thor and proved to be basically his exact physical equal. He recovered first from a double knock-out because he was in a "heat" environment that favored him. If they fought a frozen tundra Thor would probably have recovered first because of his nordic heritage and the fact that BRB's physiology favors heat. In normal environments their strength, durability, etc. was equal.

BRB gaining the "enchantment" was the equivalent of Thor regaining his godhood back. Bill retained his strength, but received all of Thor's "god" powers outlined above. What is so hard to understand about this? It is born out by the fact that they battle basically even after the first encounter, or Thor wins. This shows they are equals. If BRB kept his strength and Thor's strength, he would basically be 2x Thor (or Thor with Belt of Strength) and the fight would be no contest. This is clearly not the case and the former theory of BRB's power up with the "enchantment" is completely consistent with their physical encounters.

My cyborg comment is the idea that people say BRB is a Cyborg therefore stronger than Thor makes zero sense.

> > What's the big deal about being part robot? Thor is a god, the child of Odin and Gea.
> >
> And we know being son of Odin & Gaea doesn't mean you can beat Allcomers and Bill was giving him a fight even before he got the Hammer, upon lifting it he specifically states its effect!
> My point is that Bill is a genetically engineered Cyborg with the power of Thor, are you saying that if Thor became a Cyborg too he would be no more powerful or effective, that it would make no difference? Being a cyborg makes no difference?
> Did the power replace Bills own or did it add to it? That is the unanswered question, though Bill indicated it had added...
>
> I'm not saying Bill is *definitly* stronger I'm pointing to the facts and evidence suggesting... that he could well be!
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Sinister1




....You emphasize that The power of Thor augments Bills own innate cyborg strength. The same goes for Thor. He has innate power from his heritage (Odin and Gaea). This was evidenced in his first battle with Herbcules. Odin took away a portion of his power, only leaving him with his strength that was his "birthright" to fight Hercules with. Of course he lost to Hercules from that point forward however, he definitely showed superhuman strength being able to lift a bulldozer (although straining). There were also a couple of other things he did though he lost he still was able to put up a fight for a few panels.
> > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
>
> > you are implying that you feel bill is stronger than thor and that is not so. Thor has defeated bill more often than bill has defeated thor. In fact, in thor 472, he dropped bill with one blow.
>
> That was Blood & Thunder INSANE thor / That was also Bill wanting to HELP Thor not fight him.
>
> And Yes I am implying i feel Bill >may< be stronger and you will note my wording to be quite precise on the point, I backed it up with a scan of Bills verdict and the fact is he IS a cyborg which logically must augment that power to some degree given Thors power on top of his own has to have an effect, as that very scan suggested.>
> You in return are stating as FACT what is merely an opinion....!
>
> So I ask again - where's your evidence he isn't any stronger?
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Hulk rules all




> Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.

Beta Ray Bill should have better stats than Thor. He don't have no glass jaw. He don't have hair like a girl's. He don't speak like a mental retard. He ain't as overrated and underpowered as Thor. He don't talk big like Thor and fail to back up his words. So, Beta Ray Bill is definitely on a higher level than Thor. I think the dude who created Beta Ray Bill wanted to make a character much more believable, more powerful, more interesting, more dynamic and better looking than Thor. As far as I'm concerned, the dude succeeded big time. In my book, Beta Ray Bill>Thor anywhere, anytime and everytime. In other words, Eight tooth wonder>Glass jawed one. When Beta Ray Bill finally fights the Hulk, it'll be a good one. Not at all so one sided as when Hulk uses Thor as his personal punching bag everytime they fight.


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Keith




"He don't speak like a mental retard." LOL.

> > Over at Marvel.com, the official stat for BRB for energy projection is 7, but for Thor it is only 6. At a minimum, Thor has the godblast (most potent attack) which BRB has never been shown to possess. Personally, I hate any type of copies to begin with, but it is really an insult to make the derivative character more powerful than the original.
>
> Beta Ray Bill should have better stats than Thor. He don't have no glass jaw. He don't have hair like a girl's. He don't speak like a mental retard. He ain't as overrated and underpowered as Thor. He don't talk big like Thor and fail to back up his words. So, Beta Ray Bill is definitely on a higher level than Thor. I think the dude who created Beta Ray Bill wanted to make a character much more believable, more powerful, more interesting, more dynamic and better looking than Thor. As far as I'm concerned, the dude succeeded big time. In my book, Beta Ray Bill>Thor anywhere, anytime and everytime. In other words, Eight tooth wonder>Glass jawed one. When Beta Ray Bill finally fights the Hulk, it'll be a good one. Not at all so one sided as when Hulk uses Thor as his personal punching bag everytime they fight.


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Daveym




> and i disagree with your opinion; as chen said, bill and thor are peers in strength, bill is not stronger than thor.

I supplied my thoughts, rationalisation and Evidence! You as per usual bring absolutely NOTHING but a one line opinion dressed as fact... ;->

Ever wonder why everybody dismisses you all the time..... *rhe*


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Daveym




And my point is purely that that the fact he IS a cyborg has to have some bearing on the use of the power he was granted.
I'm saying that the fact alone that Bill is able to ignore extremes of temperature to a degree Thor can't indicates the truth of this. He now has certain advantages that Thor does not as he is a melding of both science & odinpower.
This is like asking what a solar powered Superman got from picking up Mjolnir in JLAvengers - assuming he is allround more powerful than Thor what would the Hammer give him?! Absolutely Nothing going by your reasoning....



"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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