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Fifthchild




You wrote:

"Why I think the HB armor is slow (I'm talking reaction time and agility, not flight speed)"

Firstly I am talking all 3. Flight I will take it that you concede he is no slower. Reaction time - Tony is supposed to have increased reaction time now. As a matter of fact he would have to to have all these super-speed feets he seems to be racking up. Which means he still has that reaction time in the suit. Which seeing as the Extremis upgrade allows him to access and control all kinds of electronic gizmos (including presumably those he built with the intention of controlling them) he should be able to interface with the suit at those same near instantaneous speeds. Which leads us to 3 "agility" by which I presume you mean the ability to move quickly "on the ground". How does Iron Man move in his Extremis suit? Is it Tony's own muscles that make the legs bend at the knees aand his arm cock back to throw a punch? Or is it a case of the mechanics of the suit itself being controlled by Tony which do this and give him the strength to throw a punch as hard as the Thing or at least considerably harder than Tony Stark sans suit? And if that is the case is there any reason to believe that the suits mechanics are slower to react to the thoughts running through Tonys head than his limbs can to the nerve impulses travelling from his brain? Why is it any more difficult to imagine the same can't be said of the Hulk armor?
Or does the Extremis armor slow Tony down also? Would he be even faster without it?

> First, it was shown in WWH #1 to be slow. After Iron Man fired those incendiary missiles at Hulk, Iron Man flies over the burnt out area. He then SEES the Hulk leaping at him. The Hulk is moving slow enough that we SEE his reflection on Iron Man's face plate. Iron Man even has enough time to mutter, "Oh Hell." When wearing his sleek, Extremis armor, Iron Man has a reaction time of .004 seconds (I think DaveyM posted the scan in this thread). Think about that. A reaction time of .004 seconds. That is computer fast. If Iron Man had been wearing Extremis armor, he would have been gone before the Hulk got even close to him.

I addressed this in the posts i linked to before. Please by all means read them.
Here it is again
http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602

Second, wearing cumbersome armor makes it more difficult to make use of one's agility. I mean, if you're wearing form-fitting armor, don't you think it's easier to maneuver than if you're wearing a freaking tank? Just LOOK at the Hulkbuster armor. It looks like a box with limbs. Hard to imagine Iron Man dodging or weaving in that contraption.

Again my sme objections as before. Peoples explanation as to why its slower "Just look at it". "Is it easier to maneuver in form-fitting armor than wearing a tank?" Shouldn't the Hulk be slow as hell cos he is a big lumbering giant? I think we can all agree that that is not the case when it comes to the case because unlike the "big lumbering iants we may be familiar with in our everyday lives" Hulk has a strength to bodyweight ratio that is close to infinite. The fact that he weighs a ton or so more than Ben Ulrich or whoever is more than offset by the fact that he is a million times stronger. I'm sure you can see how the same arguments apply to IM.
At any rate my earlier posts on this are contained in this post.
http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719072840
hh

hh


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dave




Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.


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Fifthchild




> Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes?

As i understand it the reflexes/multitasking/interfacing directly with armor is independent of the armor.

>So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different.

Not really. Acceleration = Force/mass. Negligible change in mass. And an even greater ammount of force that can be brought to bear. If anything it should be able to move faster.

>Those massive legs can't be too agile.

I dont see why not. If you are talking about range of motion then that is something else and the bulk of the Hulkbuster armor may well be somewhatr estrictive anyway. And I suppose its always easy to punch a bigger target than a smaller one. But since no IM fan wanted him to stand their and slug it out with Hulk anyway ironically the Hulkbuster armor offers no real disadvantages in exactly the sort of long range ep hit and run type fight that IM may want to employ when he isnt using nanites and whathaveyous.
hh


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Maestro




> Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.

Perfect example... the Hulkbuster Armor that the Avengers and FF fought in the "Executive Program" arc written by the Knaufs. In the first scan we can see just how fast Extremis is. Then we see a bulky gigantic Hulkbuster Armor effortlessly dodge the very same Extremis blows like they were in slow motion.

Heh... I can hear IM fans yelling in front their monitors right now, "but... the Hulkbuster anticipated Tony's moves thats why it could dodge him" ! \:\-P
Well sorry, but you can anticipate till the cows come home... that don't mean squat if the guy coming at you has reflexes at speeds under 0.002 seconds. That Hulkbuster Armor was clearly as fast as Extremis because not only was it able to dodge Tony, it was also fast enough to hit him too.

Which brings us back to the HB armor that Tony wore in his fight with the Hulk. Stark has proven that he can build armors that are extremely fast, regardless of how large and bulky the Armor may be. The Argonaut clearly dwarfed the HB in size yet it was without a doubt as fast as the Extremis... that point cannot possibly be disputed. Does anyone here really think that with his proven technology to build super large armors that come with blistering speed, Tony would have designed his latest Hulkbuster (the one in WWH) to be dead slow ?
Hell no !

Tony would would have gone into that faithful fight against the Hulk with every possible advantage that he could eck out of his suit. The nanobots may have been the primary weapon but that wouldn't have stopped Stark from trying to make sure that if the bots ever failed, his Armor would have enough strength and speed to take the Hulk out physically. Isn't that why the armor is called a Hulk Buster ?



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Dark Marvel




***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.


That is how I thought it worked anyway.


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Fifthchild




> ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
>
>
> That is how I thought it worked anyway.

Theres no reason the same connection could not be extended to the Hulkbuster suit to enable it to respond just as fast. Hell I thought Extremis Iron Man could coopt and control any electrical device - it makes sense that the ease and speed of interface would be at least as good in anything that he actually built to be controlled by himself. Whats to slow him down - the extra few inches/feet for the signal to travel from Tony's brain to the CPU/limbs of the suit? Insignificant.
hh
hh


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Daveym




> ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
>
>
> That is how I thought it worked anyway.

I'm not a guru on extremis but that was my thinking more or less too...
But i have to add - The thing to bear in mind with speciality suits is that they are speciality for a reason, he uses them for special purposes hence they tend to be very strong in specific areas and utterly lacking in others!
As an example - (correct my memory if wrong guys >:-| )in the first Michilinie/layton run we were introduced to the stealth armour which was built for espionage and packed with cloaking gear, the offset was that it was badly lacking in weaponry which cost him bigtime in that mission.
These armours are not a replacement for his regular suit, they are purpose built for a specific job and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast' when as noted IM was able to see the Hulk leaping at him but unable to dodge quick enough - even an extremis luddite like me knows current IM is quite fast enough to dodge with that amount of warning....


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Fifthchild




> > ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
> >
> >
> > That is how I thought it worked anyway.
>
> I'm not a guru on extremis but that was my thinking more or less too...
> But i have to add - The thing to bear in mind with speciality suits is that they are speciality for a reason, he uses them for special purposes hence they tend to be very strong in specific areas and utterly lacking in others!
> As an example - (correct my memory if wrong guys >:-| )in the first Michilinie/layton run we were introduced to the stealth armour which was built for espionage and packed with cloaking gear, the offset was that it was badly lacking in weaponry which cost him bigtime in that mission.
> These armours are not a replacement for his regular suit, they are purpose built for a specific job

agreed

> and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'

we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.

> when as noted IM was able to see the Hulk leaping at him but unable to dodge quick enough - even an extremis luddite like me knows current IM is quite fast enough to dodge with that amount of warning....
>
http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Daveym




> > and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'
>
> we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.
>
Wrong, i can look at the available evidence and continuity and draw a conclusion from the known facts.
I have seen a lot more evidence that the suit was not up to the mobility standards of a regular suit than i have to suggest it was!
Simply Willing the buster suit to be that fast so that you can win your argument is no way to make a case.

In summary: that speciality suit was something Stark built to deliver a payload of Nanites, that was his chief strategy. He knew though he would have to get in close & personal and need a suit built for protection and power.
If that suit, indeed any speciality suit, was as fast & capable as you wish it were then it would be something he would be utilising a lot more than he does. He would be wearing a variation of that suit as his regular one, it's just common sense.
But as it stands these are only built for specific jobs, they are no replacement for the Versatility, mobility and speed that his regular suit gives him - when he was beaten by Firepower he didn't just build a Big heavily armed suit and retaliate in kind, he instead went for a faster more mobile regular suit as his standard.
When he was beaten by Ultimo he didn't opt for a bulky purpose built suit he instead went for a faster more versatile suit as his standard.... In both of these examples he designed the suit to replace his old one as well as adapting them to what actually defeated him.

There is a reason he opts for the regular slimline suit he wears and a reason he only occasionally has to resort to a specially built one and that has a great deal to do with the formers mobility & speed.



"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Epyon




The scans make clear that the HB suit knew what IM was going to do. Armed with that kind of knowledge, you don't have to be superhumanly fast. Also, and just as important, the HB suit was a robot. Its reflexes are computer fast. They are not slowed by the reaction time of the "meat" inside it, because there IS no meat. The reason why IM's reaction time wasn't superhuman until Extremis was because the meat (his body) was too slow. This was explored in IRON MAN: HYPERVELOCITY limited series. Go read it, if you don't believe me. It's a great story.

> > Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.
>
> Perfect example... the Hulkbuster Armor that the Avengers and FF fought in the "Executive Program" arc written by the Knaufs. In the first scan we can see just how fast Extremis is. Then we see a bulky gigantic Hulkbuster Armor effortlessly dodge the very same Extremis blows like they were in slow motion.
>
> Heh... I can hear IM fans yelling in front their monitors right now, "but... the Hulkbuster anticipated Tony's moves thats why it could dodge him" ! \:\-P
> Well sorry, but you can anticipate till the cows come home... that don't mean squat if the guy coming at you has reflexes at speeds under 0.002 seconds. That Hulkbuster Armor was clearly as fast as Extremis because not only was it able to dodge Tony, it was also fast enough to hit him too.
>
> Which brings us back to the HB armor that Tony wore in his fight with the Hulk. Stark has proven that he can build armors that are extremely fast, regardless of how large and bulky the Armor may be. The Argonaut clearly dwarfed the HB in size yet it was without a doubt as fast as the Extremis... that point cannot possibly be disputed. Does anyone here really think that with his proven technology to build super large armors that come with blistering speed, Tony would have designed his latest Hulkbuster (the one in WWH) to be dead slow ?
> Hell no !
>
> Tony would would have gone into that faithful fight against the Hulk with every possible advantage that he could eck out of his suit. The nanobots may have been the primary weapon but that wouldn't have stopped Stark from trying to make sure that if the bots ever failed, his Armor would have enough strength and speed to take the Hulk out physically. Isn't that why the armor is called a Hulk Buster ?
>


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Epyon




My understanding of the Extremis battle suit is that its undersheath connects directly with Tony's nervous system. That is why its reaction time is virtually instantaneous. The Hulkbuster armor was not designed that way. You argue that it could have been. Maybe it could have, I don't know. But there is evidence staring right at us in the face that it was not--as I said, Tony SAW the Hulk coming at him, WE saw the Hulk reflected in his helmet, and Tony had time to say "Oh Hell", and he still couldn't dodge? If the HB suit had the same reaction time as the Extremis suit, there is NO WAY the Hulk connects on that leap.

And yes, I know the Hulk can leap really fast. But he couldn't have been going too fast for IM to dodge, because of what I stated above. If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was.

I think these points have been discussed before, in great detail. I am sure you (and others) still disagree with me, and I am sure some (including me) disagree with you.

Personally, I think Greg Pak ignored/did not know about Iron Man's superhuman reflexes and spider-sense, and his rendition of Iron Man's fight with Hulk reflect that. I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong.

> You wrote:
>
> "Why I think the HB armor is slow (I'm talking reaction time and agility, not flight speed)"
>
> Firstly I am talking all 3. Flight I will take it that you concede he is no slower. Reaction time - Tony is supposed to have increased reaction time now. As a matter of fact he would have to to have all these super-speed feets he seems to be racking up. Which means he still has that reaction time in the suit. Which seeing as the Extremis upgrade allows him to access and control all kinds of electronic gizmos (including presumably those he built with the intention of controlling them) he should be able to interface with the suit at those same near instantaneous speeds. Which leads us to 3 "agility" by which I presume you mean the ability to move quickly "on the ground". How does Iron Man move in his Extremis suit? Is it Tony's own muscles that make the legs bend at the knees aand his arm cock back to throw a punch? Or is it a case of the mechanics of the suit itself being controlled by Tony which do this and give him the strength to throw a punch as hard as the Thing or at least considerably harder than Tony Stark sans suit? And if that is the case is there any reason to believe that the suits mechanics are slower to react to the thoughts running through Tonys head than his limbs can to the nerve impulses travelling from his brain? Why is it any more difficult to imagine the same can't be said of the Hulk armor?
> Or does the Extremis armor slow Tony down also? Would he be even faster without it?
>
> > First, it was shown in WWH #1 to be slow. After Iron Man fired those incendiary missiles at Hulk, Iron Man flies over the burnt out area. He then SEES the Hulk leaping at him. The Hulk is moving slow enough that we SEE his reflection on Iron Man's face plate. Iron Man even has enough time to mutter, "Oh Hell." When wearing his sleek, Extremis armor, Iron Man has a reaction time of .004 seconds (I think DaveyM posted the scan in this thread). Think about that. A reaction time of .004 seconds. That is computer fast. If Iron Man had been wearing Extremis armor, he would have been gone before the Hulk got even close to him.
>
> I addressed this in the posts i linked to before. Please by all means read them.
> Here it is again
> http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602
>
> Second, wearing cumbersome armor makes it more difficult to make use of one's agility. I mean, if you're wearing form-fitting armor, don't you think it's easier to maneuver than if you're wearing a freaking tank? Just LOOK at the Hulkbuster armor. It looks like a box with limbs. Hard to imagine Iron Man dodging or weaving in that contraption.
>
> Again my sme objections as before. Peoples explanation as to why its slower "Just look at it". "Is it easier to maneuver in form-fitting armor than wearing a tank?" Shouldn't the Hulk be slow as hell cos he is a big lumbering giant? I think we can all agree that that is not the case when it comes to the case because unlike the "big lumbering iants we may be familiar with in our everyday lives" Hulk has a strength to bodyweight ratio that is close to infinite. The fact that he weighs a ton or so more than Ben Ulrich or whoever is more than offset by the fact that he is a million times stronger. I'm sure you can see how the same arguments apply to IM.
> At any rate my earlier posts on this are contained in this post.
> http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719072840
> hh
>
> hh


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Quinch




"If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was."

No you are mistaking that for lightspeed.


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Epyon




> "If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was."
>
> No you are mistaking that for lightspeed.

He'd have been a blur, not a clear image if he was going supersonic.


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Quinch




> > "If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was."
> >
> > No you are mistaking that for lightspeed.
>
> He'd have been a blur, not a clear image if he was going supersonic.

Not true. Depends on if the artist was going for a frame capture or a progressive event. After all, mach 2 planes can be caught on film quite easily. Clarity just depends on shutter speed.
Frm here we can go into a two or three page debate on what exactly JRJR was doing *sighs* or just admit that we really don't have enough evidence to deny it as supersonic.
Truth is Hulk always jumps at Supersonic Speeds, when he is raging much more so.
I think you're chasing your tail on this one.


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dave





> Theres no reason the same connection could not be extended to the Hulkbuster suit to enable it to respond just as fast. Hell I thought Extremis Iron Man could coopt and control any electrical device - it makes sense that the ease and speed of interface would be at least as good in anything that he actually built to be controlled by himself. Whats to slow him down - the extra few inches/feet for the signal to travel from Tony's brain to the CPU/limbs of the suit? Insignificant.
> hh
> hh

I agree that Tony should be able to make the same connection. I think the argument hear is whether or not the physical armors are the same speed. It seems that the Hulkbuster armor is not as fast as the current standard suit.


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Gamma Ra




> ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
>
>
> That is how I thought it worked anyway.

Actually the extremis is supposed enhance Stark’s control over any computerized mechanical equipment. So by Tony getting into his own Stark manufactured armor, it shouldn’t theoretically dampen the effects he has over his Hulkbuster armor. It gives him a direct link to it making him almost one with it even though it’s a shell over an shell. As far as how powerful extremis is, look at how easy he took over the satellites in WWH.


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Jaysin1414




> The scans make clear that the HB suit knew what IM was going to do. Armed with that kind of knowledge, you don't have to be superhumanly fast. Also, and just as important, the HB suit was a robot. Its reflexes are computer fast. They are not slowed by the reaction time of the "meat" inside it, because there IS no meat. The reason why IM's reaction time wasn't superhuman until Extremis was because the meat (his body) was too slow. This was explored in IRON MAN: HYPERVELOCITY limited series. Go read it, if you don't believe me. It's a great story.
>
> > > Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.
> >
> > Perfect example... the Hulkbuster Armor that the Avengers and FF fought in the "Executive Program" arc written by the Knaufs. In the first scan we can see just how fast Extremis is. Then we see a bulky gigantic Hulkbuster Armor effortlessly dodge the very same Extremis blows like they were in slow motion.
> >
> > Heh... I can hear IM fans yelling in front their monitors right now, "but... the Hulkbuster anticipated Tony's moves thats why it could dodge him" ! \:\-P
> > Well sorry, but you can anticipate till the cows come home... that don't mean squat if the guy coming at you has reflexes at speeds under 0.002 seconds. That Hulkbuster Armor was clearly as fast as Extremis because not only was it able to dodge Tony, it was also fast enough to hit him too.
> >
> > Which brings us back to the HB armor that Tony wore in his fight with the Hulk. Stark has proven that he can build armors that are extremely fast, regardless of how large and bulky the Armor may be. The Argonaut clearly dwarfed the HB in size yet it was without a doubt as fast as the Extremis... that point cannot possibly be disputed. Does anyone here really think that with his proven technology to build super large armors that come with blistering speed, Tony would have designed his latest Hulkbuster (the one in WWH) to be dead slow ?
> > Hell no !
> >
> > Tony would would have gone into that faithful fight against the Hulk with every possible advantage that he could eck out of his suit. The nanobots may have been the primary weapon but that wouldn't have stopped Stark from trying to make sure that if the bots ever failed, his Armor would have enough strength and speed to take the Hulk out physically. Isn't that why the armor is called a Hulk Buster ?
> >


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Jaysin1414




> > > and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'
> >
> > we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.
> >
> Wrong, i can look at the available evidence and continuity and draw a conclusion from the known facts.
> I have seen a lot more evidence that the suit was not up to the mobility standards of a regular suit than i have to suggest it was!
> Simply Willing the buster suit to be that fast so that you can win your argument is no way to make a case.
>
> In summary: that speciality suit was something Stark built to deliver a payload of Nanites, that was his chief strategy. He knew though he would have to get in close & personal and need a suit built for protection and power.
> If that suit, indeed any speciality suit, was as fast & capable as you wish it were then it would be something he would be utilising a lot more than he does. He would be wearing a variation of that suit as his regular one, it's just common sense.
> But as it stands these are only built for specific jobs, they are no replacement for the Versatility, mobility and speed that his regular suit gives him - when he was beaten by Firepower he didn't just build a Big heavily armed suit and retaliate in kind, he instead went for a faster more mobile regular suit as his standard.
> When he was beaten by Ultimo he didn't opt for a bulky purpose built suit he instead went for a faster more versatile suit as his standard.... In both of these examples he designed the suit to replace his old one as well as adapting them to what actually defeated him.
>
> There is a reason he opts for the regular slimline suit he wears and a reason he only occasionally has to resort to a specially built one and that has a great deal to do with the formers mobility & speed.
>
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
HMB3




...why he (Stark) did not elect a different delivery mechanism for his nanites, one that would allow him to target the Hulk from a safer range.
Adamantium-tipped darts fired outside the Hulk's threat range IMO would have been the wiser option, using a suit that maximized speed and mobility. I for one am not saying the Hulkbuster is slow--it probably showcases excellent flight speed--but I imagine that most writers view it as cumbersome, at least more than most of his repetoire of armor suit. And really... why close in on the Hulk in the first place? Sure... Stark has had mixed success in battle against the Hulk, but rarely in the fisticuffs department.

My opinion is that Pak chose this particular suit of armor because--well, it IS the Hulkbuster suit, at least in name. It was another way for Pak to highlight Hulk's increased physical strength by showing him defeating Iron Man in an armor suit that has historically giving the Hulk a run for his money. With that said, since it IS the Hulkbuster suit, Tony IMO would factor in the Hulk's ability to leap great distances at airborne foes and implement certain countermeasures for such occassion. Ultimately, maybe Stark was taken aback because the nanites failed to do ANYTHING, at least based on his perception since it may very well be the case he never had the nanites in the first place.




> > > and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'
> >
> > we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.
> >
> Wrong, i can look at the available evidence and continuity and draw a conclusion from the known facts.
> I have seen a lot more evidence that the suit was not up to the mobility standards of a regular suit than i have to suggest it was!
> Simply Willing the buster suit to be that fast so that you can win your argument is no way to make a case.
>
> In summary: that speciality suit was something Stark built to deliver a payload of Nanites, that was his chief strategy. He knew though he would have to get in close & personal and need a suit built for protection and power.
> If that suit, indeed any speciality suit, was as fast & capable as you wish it were then it would be something he would be utilising a lot more than he does. He would be wearing a variation of that suit as his regular one, it's just common sense.
> But as it stands these are only built for specific jobs, they are no replacement for the Versatility, mobility and speed that his regular suit gives him - when he was beaten by Firepower he didn't just build a Big heavily armed suit and retaliate in kind, he instead went for a faster more mobile regular suit as his standard.
> When he was beaten by Ultimo he didn't opt for a bulky purpose built suit he instead went for a faster more versatile suit as his standard.... In both of these examples he designed the suit to replace his old one as well as adapting them to what actually defeated him.
>
> There is a reason he opts for the regular slimline suit he wears and a reason he only occasionally has to resort to a specially built one and that has a great deal to do with the formers mobility & speed.
>
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Ironguy




> And yes, I know the Hulk can leap really fast. But he couldn't have been going too fast for IM to dodge, because of what I stated above. If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was.

There's some wiggle room here.....its not like everytime someone is moving at superspeed that they appear as a blur.

I don't know how fast Hulk was moving or if the HB is connected to Extremis....but I do know that logic lapses like reflections are pretty common. If Hulk's unglued toupee didn't blow off than I think you might have something : )


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Epyon




> > > "If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was."
> > >
> > > No you are mistaking that for lightspeed.
> >
> > He'd have been a blur, not a clear image if he was going supersonic.
>
> Not true. Depends on if the artist was going for a frame capture or a progressive event. After all, mach 2 planes can be caught on film quite easily. Clarity just depends on shutter speed.
> Frm here we can go into a two or three page debate on what exactly JRJR was doing *sighs* or just admit that we really don't have enough evidence to deny it as supersonic.
> Truth is Hulk always jumps at Supersonic Speeds, when he is raging much more so.
> I think you're chasing your tail on this one.

OK, fine. But even presuming that JR Jr was giving us a supersonic freeze frame (which I don't think is the case, but I will concede for the sake of argument), Iron Man DEFINITELY saw him coming, and DEFINITELY had time to say "Oh Hell." It DEFINITELY takes more than 0.004 seconds to say "Oh Hell." And 0.004 seconds is all Iron Man needs to react to something. So the Hulkbuster armor simply does NOT have the reaction time of the Extremis armor.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Epyon




> > ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
> >
> >
> > That is how I thought it worked anyway.
>
> Actually the extremis is supposed enhance Stark’s control over any computerized mechanical equipment. So by Tony getting into his own Stark manufactured armor, it shouldn’t theoretically dampen the effects he has over his Hulkbuster armor. It gives him a direct link to it making him almost one with it even though it’s a shell over an shell. As far as how powerful extremis is, look at how easy he took over the satellites in WWH.

Stark's control over electronics (and by the way, it's not everything mechanical--it's only electronic devices that can send or receive digital signals. He can't control a lawn mower, for example) is separate and unrelated to his superhuman reflexes. The reason why he has superhuman reaction time is that the undersheath to the Extremis armor (which serves as the armor's control interface) is bonded to Stark's brain. As such, the Extremis armor reacts with the speed of thought. Stark THINKS about moving, and the suit does. In contrast, his regular suits of armor were limited by the reaction time of Stark's body.

This was all explained during the "Extremis" storyline by Warren Ellis.


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Epyon




As far as I can see, he ignored Iron Man's superhuman reaction time, spider-sense, and access to adamantium weapons and armor. I'm not saying Pak turned Iron Man into a jobber. In fact, I think Iron Man had a better showing than anyone else who has fought WWH to this point. But I don't think Pak fully understands what Iron Man is capable of these days. And given the lax editorial guidelines at Marvel, he wasn't required to "educate" himself about Iron Man. I was pleasantly surprised that Pak showcased Iron Man's control over electronics, considering that some writers (such as Dan Slott) ignore ALL of Iron Man's upgrades. This is why I would have loved to see Pak talked to the Knaufs about how a full bore Iron Man v. Hulk fight would go down. Maybe it will happen in the future. After WWH, I don't think Hulk and Iron Man are going to exactly buddy buddy.

> ...why he (Stark) did not elect a different delivery mechanism for his nanites, one that would allow him to target the Hulk from a safer range.
> Adamantium-tipped darts fired outside the Hulk's threat range IMO would have been the wiser option, using a suit that maximized speed and mobility. I for one am not saying the Hulkbuster is slow--it probably showcases excellent flight speed--but I imagine that most writers view it as cumbersome, at least more than most of his repetoire of armor suit. And really... why close in on the Hulk in the first place? Sure... Stark has had mixed success in battle against the Hulk, but rarely in the fisticuffs department.
>
> My opinion is that Pak chose this particular suit of armor because--well, it IS the Hulkbuster suit, at least in name. It was another way for Pak to highlight Hulk's increased physical strength by showing him defeating Iron Man in an armor suit that has historically giving the Hulk a run for his money. With that said, since it IS the Hulkbuster suit, Tony IMO would factor in the Hulk's ability to leap great distances at airborne foes and implement certain countermeasures for such occassion. Ultimately, maybe Stark was taken aback because the nanites failed to do ANYTHING, at least based on his perception since it may very well be the case he never had the nanites in the first place.
>
>
>
>
> > > > and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'
> > >
> > > we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.
> > >
> > Wrong, i can look at the available evidence and continuity and draw a conclusion from the known facts.
> > I have seen a lot more evidence that the suit was not up to the mobility standards of a regular suit than i have to suggest it was!
> > Simply Willing the buster suit to be that fast so that you can win your argument is no way to make a case.
> >
> > In summary: that speciality suit was something Stark built to deliver a payload of Nanites, that was his chief strategy. He knew though he would have to get in close & personal and need a suit built for protection and power.
> > If that suit, indeed any speciality suit, was as fast & capable as you wish it were then it would be something he would be utilising a lot more than he does. He would be wearing a variation of that suit as his regular one, it's just common sense.
> > But as it stands these are only built for specific jobs, they are no replacement for the Versatility, mobility and speed that his regular suit gives him - when he was beaten by Firepower he didn't just build a Big heavily armed suit and retaliate in kind, he instead went for a faster more mobile regular suit as his standard.
> > When he was beaten by Ultimo he didn't opt for a bulky purpose built suit he instead went for a faster more versatile suit as his standard.... In both of these examples he designed the suit to replace his old one as well as adapting them to what actually defeated him.
> >
> > There is a reason he opts for the regular slimline suit he wears and a reason he only occasionally has to resort to a specially built one and that has a great deal to do with the formers mobility & speed.
> >
> >
> >
> > "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Epyon




> > > and with this Hulkbuster suit he very likely sacrificed much of the regular suits ability in favor of durability and power, there's no way something that clumsy and unwieldy can be considered 'Fast'
> >
> > we are arguing over whether or not the suit is fast. You cant use the assumption that the suit is clumsy, unwieldy and slow as the premise for your argument that it is slow.
> >
> Wrong, i can look at the available evidence and continuity and draw a conclusion from the known facts.
> I have seen a lot more evidence that the suit was not up to the mobility standards of a regular suit than i have to suggest it was!
> Simply Willing the buster suit to be that fast so that you can win your argument is no way to make a case.
>
> In summary: that speciality suit was something Stark built to deliver a payload of Nanites, that was his chief strategy. He knew though he would have to get in close & personal and need a suit built for protection and power.
> If that suit, indeed any speciality suit, was as fast & capable as you wish it were then it would be something he would be utilising a lot more than he does. He would be wearing a variation of that suit as his regular one, it's just common sense.
> But as it stands these are only built for specific jobs, they are no replacement for the Versatility, mobility and speed that his regular suit gives him - when he was beaten by Firepower he didn't just build a Big heavily armed suit and retaliate in kind, he instead went for a faster more mobile regular suit as his standard.
> When he was beaten by Ultimo he didn't opt for a bulky purpose built suit he instead went for a faster more versatile suit as his standard.... In both of these examples he designed the suit to replace his old one as well as adapting them to what actually defeated him.
>
> There is a reason he opts for the regular slimline suit he wears and a reason he only occasionally has to resort to a specially built one and that has a great deal to do with the formers mobility & speed.
>
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Maestro




> The scans make clear that the HB suit knew what IM was going to do. Armed with that kind of knowledge, you don't have to be superhumanly fast.
>

Sorry but you do have to be superhumanly fast if the guy coming at you can react in 0.002 seconds. No amount of "anticipation" is going to allow you to not get hit unless your own speed at the very least is close to that of your attacker. To put it another way, your anticipation may warn you that the blow is coming... but if you are not fast enough to move back/dodge in time, this "anticipation" won't help you much.
Also, the fact that the Argonaut had a computer brain doesn't explain how the HB drone was able to hit a super fast Extremis Iron Man. The only thing that would have allowed the HB to do that would have been the speed of its armored right arm.


>Also, and just as important, the HB suit was a robot. Its reflexes are computer fast. They are not slowed by the reaction time of the "meat" inside it, because there IS no meat. The reason why IM's reaction time wasn't superhuman until Extremis was because the meat (his body) was too slow. This was explored in IRON MAN: HYPERVELOCITY limited series. Go read it, if you don't believe me. It's a great story.
>

The thing is... this isn't the old Iron Man who has had to rely on motors and transistors to enhance his armor's physical movements whenever he is inside. The Extremis virus now allows him to be "hardwired" directly to his Armor's electronics therefore allowing the armor and the man inside to move and react as one. There is no reason not to believe that Tony and the Hulkbuster were not similarly wired together. Even if Tony was not physically touching the HB armor when strapped inside, wireless and infra-red communications could still do the job of linking Stark's Extremis enhanced neurological systemn with the electronics of the HB armor itself.

Once again, we know Stark can build HB armors that are super fast. Whether they be robots or Armor to be worn is irrelevant. Both types are extremely heavy and bulky. We also know that Extremis allows Tony and whatever Armor he puts on to be able to act as one entity. That Tony might have been wearing Armor even when inside the HB is also irrelevant. Even todays technology allows linking between different components of machinery without having wires conncecting or even physical touch. There is simply no logical reason why Tony would have built a slow HB to face the Hulk when he has built fast ones before... no reason at all.

>
> > > Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.
> >
> > Perfect example... the Hulkbuster Armor that the Avengers and FF fought in the "Executive Program" arc written by the Knaufs. In the first scan we can see just how fast Extremis is. Then we see a bulky gigantic Hulkbuster Armor effortlessly dodge the very same Extremis blows like they were in slow motion.
> >
> > Heh... I can hear IM fans yelling in front their monitors right now, "but... the Hulkbuster anticipated Tony's moves thats why it could dodge him" ! \:\-P
> > Well sorry, but you can anticipate till the cows come home... that don't mean squat if the guy coming at you has reflexes at speeds under 0.002 seconds. That Hulkbuster Armor was clearly as fast as Extremis because not only was it able to dodge Tony, it was also fast enough to hit him too.
> >
> > Which brings us back to the HB armor that Tony wore in his fight with the Hulk. Stark has proven that he can build armors that are extremely fast, regardless of how large and bulky the Armor may be. The Argonaut clearly dwarfed the HB in size yet it was without a doubt as fast as the Extremis... that point cannot possibly be disputed. Does anyone here really think that with his proven technology to build super large armors that come with blistering speed, Tony would have designed his latest Hulkbuster (the one in WWH) to be dead slow ?
> > Hell no !
> >
> > Tony would would have gone into that faithful fight against the Hulk with every possible advantage that he could eck out of his suit. The nanobots may have been the primary weapon but that wouldn't have stopped Stark from trying to make sure that if the bots ever failed, his Armor would have enough strength and speed to take the Hulk out physically. Isn't that why the armor is called a Hulk Buster ?
> >


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Maestro




> > The scans make clear that the HB suit knew what IM was going to do. Armed with that kind of knowledge, you don't have to be superhumanly fast. Also, and just as important, the HB suit was a robot. Its reflexes are computer fast. They are not slowed by the reaction time of the "meat" inside it, because there IS no meat. The reason why IM's reaction time wasn't superhuman until Extremis was because the meat (his body) was too slow. This was explored in IRON MAN: HYPERVELOCITY limited series. Go read it, if you don't believe me. It's a great story.
> >
> > > > Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Extremis "virus" exists independently of the armor and this abilities should work with any armor, yes? So the only reason the Hulk Buster armor would be slower would be because that actual armor is slower, which is usually the case in comics (stronger = slower). The mechanics of movement are different. Those massive legs can't be too agile.
> > >
> > > Perfect example... the Hulkbuster Armor that the Avengers and FF fought in the "Executive Program" arc written by the Knaufs. In the first scan we can see just how fast Extremis is. Then we see a bulky gigantic Hulkbuster Armor effortlessly dodge the very same Extremis blows like they were in slow motion.
> > >
> > > Heh... I can hear IM fans yelling in front their monitors right now, "but... the Hulkbuster anticipated Tony's moves thats why it could dodge him" ! \:\-P
> > > Well sorry, but you can anticipate till the cows come home... that don't mean squat if the guy coming at you has reflexes at speeds under 0.002 seconds. That Hulkbuster Armor was clearly as fast as Extremis because not only was it able to dodge Tony, it was also fast enough to hit him too.
> > >
> > > Which brings us back to the HB armor that Tony wore in his fight with the Hulk. Stark has proven that he can build armors that are extremely fast, regardless of how large and bulky the Armor may be. The Argonaut clearly dwarfed the HB in size yet it was without a doubt as fast as the Extremis... that point cannot possibly be disputed. Does anyone here really think that with his proven technology to build super large armors that come with blistering speed, Tony would have designed his latest Hulkbuster (the one in WWH) to be dead slow ?
> > > Hell no !
> > >
> > > Tony would would have gone into that faithful fight against the Hulk with every possible advantage that he could eck out of his suit. The nanobots may have been the primary weapon but that wouldn't have stopped Stark from trying to make sure that if the bots ever failed, his Armor would have enough strength and speed to take the Hulk out physically. Isn't that why the armor is called a Hulk Buster ?
> > >


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Maestro




> My understanding of the Extremis battle suit is that its undersheath connects directly with Tony's nervous system. That is why its reaction time is virtually instantaneous. The Hulkbuster armor was not designed that way. You argue that it could have been. Maybe it could have, I don't know. But there is evidence staring right at us in the face that it was not--as I said, Tony SAW the Hulk coming at him, WE saw the Hulk reflected in his helmet, and Tony had time to say "Oh Hell", and he still couldn't dodge? If the HB suit had the same reaction time as the Extremis suit, there is NO WAY the Hulk connects on that leap.
>
> And yes, I know the Hulk can leap really fast. But he couldn't have been going too fast for IM to dodge, because of what I stated above. If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was.
>

And as some (mainly me \:\-D ) have pointed out to you... there is simply no way that Hulk not only connects with IM, but pushes him (against the counter force of Tony's very own boot jets mind you) straight into the side of a building with enough force to bring down that same building... unless Hulk himself was traveling at a very high multi-supersonic velocity. Hulk has no rockets on his feet to give him constant propulsion. The only way Hulk manages to cover such vast distances with a single leap is if all his acceleration is front loaded into the leap. By the time Tony saw the reflection in his visor it would already have been too late. Tony's "oh hell" says it all.

> I think these points have been discussed before, in great detail. I am sure you (and others) still disagree with me, and I am sure some (including me) disagree with you.
>
> Personally, I think Greg Pak ignored/did not know about Iron Man's superhuman reflexes and spider-sense, and his rendition of Iron Man's fight with Hulk reflect that. I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong.
>
> > You wrote:
> >
> > "Why I think the HB armor is slow (I'm talking reaction time and agility, not flight speed)"
> >
> > Firstly I am talking all 3. Flight I will take it that you concede he is no slower. Reaction time - Tony is supposed to have increased reaction time now. As a matter of fact he would have to to have all these super-speed feets he seems to be racking up. Which means he still has that reaction time in the suit. Which seeing as the Extremis upgrade allows him to access and control all kinds of electronic gizmos (including presumably those he built with the intention of controlling them) he should be able to interface with the suit at those same near instantaneous speeds. Which leads us to 3 "agility" by which I presume you mean the ability to move quickly "on the ground". How does Iron Man move in his Extremis suit? Is it Tony's own muscles that make the legs bend at the knees aand his arm cock back to throw a punch? Or is it a case of the mechanics of the suit itself being controlled by Tony which do this and give him the strength to throw a punch as hard as the Thing or at least considerably harder than Tony Stark sans suit? And if that is the case is there any reason to believe that the suits mechanics are slower to react to the thoughts running through Tonys head than his limbs can to the nerve impulses travelling from his brain? Why is it any more difficult to imagine the same can't be said of the Hulk armor?
> > Or does the Extremis armor slow Tony down also? Would he be even faster without it?
> >
> > > First, it was shown in WWH #1 to be slow. After Iron Man fired those incendiary missiles at Hulk, Iron Man flies over the burnt out area. He then SEES the Hulk leaping at him. The Hulk is moving slow enough that we SEE his reflection on Iron Man's face plate. Iron Man even has enough time to mutter, "Oh Hell." When wearing his sleek, Extremis armor, Iron Man has a reaction time of .004 seconds (I think DaveyM posted the scan in this thread). Think about that. A reaction time of .004 seconds. That is computer fast. If Iron Man had been wearing Extremis armor, he would have been gone before the Hulk got even close to him.
> >
> > I addressed this in the posts i linked to before. Please by all means read them.
> > Here it is again
> > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602
> >
> > Second, wearing cumbersome armor makes it more difficult to make use of one's agility. I mean, if you're wearing form-fitting armor, don't you think it's easier to maneuver than if you're wearing a freaking tank? Just LOOK at the Hulkbuster armor. It looks like a box with limbs. Hard to imagine Iron Man dodging or weaving in that contraption.
> >
> > Again my sme objections as before. Peoples explanation as to why its slower "Just look at it". "Is it easier to maneuver in form-fitting armor than wearing a tank?" Shouldn't the Hulk be slow as hell cos he is a big lumbering giant? I think we can all agree that that is not the case when it comes to the case because unlike the "big lumbering iants we may be familiar with in our everyday lives" Hulk has a strength to bodyweight ratio that is close to infinite. The fact that he weighs a ton or so more than Ben Ulrich or whoever is more than offset by the fact that he is a million times stronger. I'm sure you can see how the same arguments apply to IM.
> > At any rate my earlier posts on this are contained in this post.
> > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719072840
> > hh
> >
> > hh


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Maestro




NT


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Maestro




> > > ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
> > >
> > >
> > > That is how I thought it worked anyway.
> >
> > Actually the extremis is supposed enhance Stark’s control over any computerized mechanical equipment. So by Tony getting into his own Stark manufactured armor, it shouldn’t theoretically dampen the effects he has over his Hulkbuster armor. It gives him a direct link to it making him almost one with it even though it’s a shell over an shell. As far as how powerful extremis is, look at how easy he took over the satellites in WWH.
>
> Stark's control over electronics (and by the way, it's not everything mechanical--it's only electronic devices that can send or receive digital signals. He can't control a lawn mower, for example) is separate and unrelated to his superhuman reflexes. The reason why he has superhuman reaction time is that the undersheath to the Extremis armor (which serves as the armor's control interface) is bonded to Stark's brain. As such, the Extremis armor reacts with the speed of thought. Stark THINKS about moving, and the suit does. In contrast, his regular suits of armor were limited by the reaction time of Stark's body.
>
> This was all explained during the "Extremis" storyline by Warren Ellis.

This was explained by Ellis that due to Extremis not being a part of Tony's make up at the time, there was no reason to wire the suits he wore at the time with the kind of configuration necessary to hook directly up to Tony's biologcial nervous system. Now that Tony has had Extremis for a while it's logical to assume that all of his newer armors (including the HB) would be wired to receive Extremis's digital signals.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Maestro




>
> > Theres no reason the same connection could not be extended to the Hulkbuster suit to enable it to respond just as fast. Hell I thought Extremis Iron Man could coopt and control any electrical device - it makes sense that the ease and speed of interface would be at least as good in anything that he actually built to be controlled by himself. Whats to slow him down - the extra few inches/feet for the signal to travel from Tony's brain to the CPU/limbs of the suit? Insignificant.
> > hh
> > hh
>
> I agree that Tony should be able to make the same connection. I think the argument hear is whether or not the physical armors are the same speed. It seems that the Hulkbuster armor is not as fast as the current standard suit.

Even if it was not as fast, judging by the example I gave before of the Hulk Buster Argonaut, Tony is quite capable of building large bulky suits that come damn close to matching Extremis. I see no reason to believe that if the even bigger Argonaut HB was fast enough to hit Extremis IM, the HB Tony wore couldn't be as fast.

But the thing is... even we want to say for argument that the HB was only slightly slower than Extremis, did it not make sense for Tony to sacrifice a small bit of speed in order to get the extra strength and protection that HB gave him. Because whoever believes that the Extemis armor was fast enough to dance around the Hulk picking his spots while remaining untouchable obviously hasn't seen Hulk catching missiles, swatting tank shells and swatting aside Quick Silver.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Gamma Ra




> > > ***That it makes Tony's usual armor like an extension of himself. It it isnt like armor anymore but as if it is a part of him. To get into the Hulk Buster armor would be sort of like it was before extremis. It would be slower on account that it doesn't react to his mental/physical commands like his reg armor would case in point. If you are fast athletic person and then one day you have to put on a fat suit...you just aren't going to be as fast as you were without the suit.
> > >
> > >
> > > That is how I thought it worked anyway.
> >
> > Actually the extremis is supposed enhance Stark’s control over any computerized mechanical equipment. So by Tony getting into his own Stark manufactured armor, it shouldn’t theoretically dampen the effects he has over his Hulkbuster armor. It gives him a direct link to it making him almost one with it even though it’s a shell over an shell. As far as how powerful extremis is, look at how easy he took over the satellites in WWH.
>
> Stark's control over electronics (and by the way, it's not everything mechanical--it's only electronic devices that can send or receive digital signals. He can't control a lawn mower, for example) is separate and unrelated to his superhuman reflexes. The reason why he has superhuman reaction time is that the undersheath to the Extremis armor (which serves as the armor's control interface) is bonded to Stark's brain. As such, the Extremis armor reacts with the speed of thought. Stark THINKS about moving, and the suit does. In contrast, his regular suits of armor were limited by the reaction time of Stark's body.

I never said he was the lawnmower man \:\-\) . O.K. I not the most adept at IM knowledge but I was under the imppression that it was the nanotechnology in Tony's highly evolved skin, which is linked to his nervous system which gives him the ability to send his thoughts thus controling computerized mechanical equipment.
>
> This was all explained during the "Extremis" storyline by Warren Ellis.

>
>
>
>
>
The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)

Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63




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