Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday.

Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas.

Agree/Disagree and add more!

Thanos (for pwning SS among other)
Fernus (for pwning Supes among others)
Mordru
Durok
Desak
Morg WOL
Lord Tantalus
Titannus
Cyborg Supes w/rings
PE Zuras
Tyrant
Highfather
Takion
The Doctor
Dr. Manhatten
Solar
Superboy Prime
Ion Sodam Yat
Karnilla
Monarch
Molecule Man
HP Doomsday
Phoenix (GOTG)
The Void
Super Adaptoid
Amazo
Annihilus (Annihilation)
Afro Magus
Runner
Grandmaster
Champion w/gem
Mangog (recent)
Destroyer
Despero (V&V)

Grandmaster should be in skyfather class.


Not sure on this one. If someone fights him outside of a boxing ring/rules he doesn't do as well. Might just be herald, tough to say.


Ultron (Phalanx version)
Count Nefaria
Squirrel Girl

~Hat~

He's s beast, but Thor killed him the second go round. Despero was said not to be as strong as Superman, just vicious and smart. I can't say with authority he is a tier above Surfer, in fact, like I said before I think a cold Surfer beats the crap out of him. I don't know about Karnilla.

Also, Kurse, Magog, Hyperstorm and Insane Genis Vell.


> Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday.

> > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > Mordru > Durok > Desak > Morg WOL > Lord Tantalus > Titannus > Cyborg Supes w/rings > PE Zuras > Tyrant > Highfather > Takion > The Doctor > Dr. Manhatten > Solar > Superboy Prime > Ion Sodam Yat > Karnilla > Monarch > Molecule Man > HP Doomsday > Phoenix (GOTG) > The Void > Super Adaptoid > Amazo > Annihilus (Annihilation) > Afro Magus > Runner > Grandmaster > Champion w/gem > Mangog (recent) > Destroyer > Despero (V&V)

I think Despero was a step above in V&V.
I am not sure about how Thor won.
Karnilla is said to be 2nd behind Odin in Asgard though she has few showings.


Agreed.

Thanks for the replies. I will edit the list later.

any version post his earliest showings...early Thanos is arguably at this level or at top end herald...

But he was also stalemated by Plastic Man. I think this is more of a case of a character getting uber props early in his showings, then having a pretty crappy one at the end. Powerwise, he's still Jonn's peer. He's a top end herald IMO.

probably

debatable...based on his first appearances probably, but based on his fight with a hammerless Thor in Oemings run, he's probably a top end herald...doesn't have the versatility of Surfer or Thor, but is stronger and more durable than either, by a fair margin.

at least, possibly low skyfather...he's strong enough to go toe to toe with King Thor, strength on strength, and HE was strong enough to dent Cap's sheild...and most 'strong' teambusters like Kurse or Durok wouldn't generally be able to do that IMO...

Yes

probably

with rings, yes

skyfather

possibly low skyfather

tough to guage actually

yes

yes but only barely

arguably...supposedly she's powerful enough, but she has some lackluster showings, so its hard for me to really place her ahead of Loki powerwise...

depends on the version...

yes

potentially skyfather

probably yes for both

yes
yes
probably

yes
yes
> Despero (V&V)
yes

> Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. >

Using just the definitions above...

Post power-up Nefaria

WWIII Black Adam (he did battle the combined JLA & JSA teams to a draw)

Graviton

Red Hulk (qualifies under the "without too much effort annihilates a herald level character" part of your defintion)

Sentry pre-Mighty Avengers (he did annihilate Terrax...)

Onslaught

8th Day Juggernaut

Mongul with yellow rings

KC Superman (may be borderline here)

Black Mary (before losing her powers in defeating Eclypso)

War Hulk

World War Hulk

> Agree/Disagree and add more! > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > Mordru > Durok > Desak > Morg WOL > Lord Tantalus > Titannus > Cyborg Supes w/rings > PE Zuras > Tyrant > Highfather > Takion > The Doctor > Dr. Manhatten > Solar > Superboy Prime > Ion Sodam Yat > Karnilla > Monarch > Molecule Man > HP Doomsday > Phoenix (GOTG) > The Void > Super Adaptoid > Amazo > Annihilus (Annihilation) > Afro Magus > Runner > Grandmaster > Champion w/gem > Mangog (recent) > Destroyer > Despero (V&V)

> Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other)

agree

> Fernus (for pwning Supes among others)

Besides (PM), I don't see any (JLA) member winning this guy!

> Mordru

To be honest, he's just more powerful b/c of the artifacts he gets/steals, I still believe that (Loki) with prep can probably take hime!

> Durok

He's very questionable b/c of (Oeming)'s run, remember that it was (Rune/Odinpower Thor) who took him out! So with that in mind I have to say yes!

> Desak

Agree

> Morg WOL

Agree

> Lord Tantalus

Agree

> Titannus

Agree

> Cyborg Supes w/rings

Well anybody with (10: QR's) has to be!

> PE Zuras

Agree, Zuras IMHO opinion is (Skyfather) level, and is equal in pwr to (Zeus)!

> Tyrant

Agree

> Highfather

Low End Skyfather

> Takion

See Above

> The Doctor

See Above

> Dr. Manhatten

See Above

> Solar

See Above

> Superboy Prime

Agree

> Ion Sodam Yat

Agree

> Karnilla

Low End Skyfather

> Monarch

Agree

> Molecule Man

Agree

> HP Doomsday

Agree

> Phoenix (GOTG)

Agree

> The Void

High End Herald

> Super Adaptoid

Agree

> Amazo

Agree

> Annihilus (Annihilation)

High End Herald

> Afro Magus

High End Herald

> Runner

High End Herald

> Grandmaster

Agree

> Champion w/gem

High End Herald

> Mangog (recent)

Agree

> Destroyer

Agree

> Despero (V&V)

Agree

Don't think there was ever a doubt Thanos was tier ahead of heralds
Agreed for pwning a group of JLAers
Haven't followed him enough to say
Not enough impressive showings to say for sure has been BFR'd for like a decade or two hasn't he?
Too specialized to say but cleaning house on pantheons is impressive. Need to see him outside of that realm to be convinced though.
Yup. He's def. in the realm see defeat of all of the previous heralds or man handling at the very least.
Yup. Black legacy or whatever it's called is like the PC Omegas.
Didn't follow him.
If this is permanent w/rings then yes. Otherwise give it to MM or Wonderwoman and they're in the class too.
Skyfather at least. Not sure why he's demoted here.
I must be missing something these last two guys are at least skirting on skyfather level.
Haven't seen anything in combat from Highfather to say for sure.
Same as Highfather.
Pass
Pass
Pass
Yep herald team annihilator for sure.
Pass
Asgard witch? what's she done above say Hela?
At least.
Skirting skyfatherish realm
Yup.
Potentially.
Verdict still out on Void and Sentry.
Depends on who he gets around too much to say for sure.
Depends on version Android version is skyfather imo. Namor look alike is at least herald team beater level.
Pass
Reality manipulation is hard to gauge but yeah at least this level.
Again other than smacking SS around what's he done?
Not enough combat to say. Think most just give him this high a rating based on Elder of Universe title.
No way. He was never able to consciously tap the power gem when he had it (Infinity Quest). If Champ is here Dumb Drax is skyfather level hehe.
Any version is herald team beater level.
Same depending on who is inhabiting it could skirt skyfather level.
Don't care who said what. V&V Despero showed it against multiple herald levelers.

Add
Terminus
Supreme
Godstalker-base level potential to be skyfather level with Celestial amping
Goddess
Warlock- Potentially, Depending on incarnation
Black Adam- Potentially
Lunatik
Jinni- Thor villain
Fredd
Vartox- At least in hyperbole..need to bring him back with better outfit.
Onslaught
Dark Angel
Minion
Elder Demon
Millenius

All I can think of for now.

yeah, in that story he seemed above top tier...aside from that, not really...

he grabbed Durok in a bear hug and unleashed some of his internal energy powers, Durok was KO'd

The thing is, Loki beat her. Utgard Loki OWNED her, and was in turn owned by Baldur...though to be fair, his heat powers are hard to quantify, and it melted them...

Yes
Yeah, but he had similar showings before, under his own power IIRC...
with Isis' power he SHOULD be, but didn't show anything more than his normal levels used effectively IMO.

He had one good showing in Thunderbolts where he blindsided all the worlds heroes, but aside from that, he's done nothing out of line with a high end Surfer or Thor issue. Thor has defeated him head to head as well.

All in all, with his high end showings factored in, he's a solid herald IMO.

Yeah

even post Mighty Avengers is somewhat ambiguous, so yeah, Sentry is there

maybe
maybe a low end

IMO he's a high end herald.
maybe...maybe top end herald...at best the bottom end of this category...Isis' powers didn't seem to make her stronger, faster, or more durable, just add a significant amount of other mystic powers, which makes her more like Thor or Surfer, who has comparable physical stats and huge levels of EP as well...such capacity would move a mid range herald like Mary, CM, or even Superman to the top tier category IMO, but because of the combat speed advantage MAY put her slightly over the edge...

yes
herald

gained the runepower. Thor faced him under only his own power and without Mjolnir, and came away with a KO.

Also, what actual showings indicate that Karnilla is above top end herald?

Further, we have enough showings of the Void to indicate that he's WAY above Thor, who is top tier herald...why would he be top end herald when he's probably superior to several guys you agree with in the teambuster rank...
>

> > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > agree > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > Besides (PM), I don't see any (JLA) member winning this guy! > > Mordru > To be honest, he's just more powerful b/c of the artifacts he gets/steals, I still believe that (Loki) with prep can probably take hime! > > Durok > He's very questionable b/c of (Oeming)'s run, remember that it was (Rune/Odinpower Thor) who took him out! So with that in mind I have to say yes! > > Desak > Agree > > Morg WOL > Agree > > Lord Tantalus > Agree > > Titannus > Agree > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > Well anybody with (10: QR's) has to be! > > PE Zuras > Agree, Zuras IMHO opinion is (Skyfather) level, and is equal in pwr to (Zeus)! > > Tyrant > Agree > > Highfather > Low End Skyfather > > Takion > See Above > > The Doctor > See Above > > Dr. Manhatten > See Above > > Solar > See Above > > Superboy Prime > Agree > > Ion Sodam Yat > Agree > > Karnilla > Low End Skyfather > > Monarch > Agree > > Molecule Man > Agree > > HP Doomsday > Agree > > Phoenix (GOTG) > Agree > > The Void > High End Herald > > Super Adaptoid > Agree > > Amazo > Agree > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > High End Herald > > Afro Magus > High End Herald > > Runner > High End Herald > > Grandmaster > Agree > > Champion w/gem > High End Herald > > Mangog (recent) > Agree > > Destroyer > Agree > > Despero (V&V) > Agree >

I think we have enough to go on in this thread. We have officially populated a Heraldbuster class (despite minor arguments.)

I think the next level (Cosmic or Skyfather) should include Odin, fed Galactus, Inbetweener, Neron, Superman Prime, Yuga Khan, etc. - basically anyone who could casually beat a heraldbuster or give a good fight to a group of heraldbusters.

It's not really important to populate this level but it probably goes from Odin to the Celestials and stops short of abstracts/uber gods.

> > > > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > > > > Using just the definitions above... > > > > Post power-up Nefaria > Yes > > > > WWIII Black Adam (he did battle the combined JLA & JSA teams to a draw) > > > Yeah, but he had similar showings before, under his own power IIRC... > with Isis' power he SHOULD be, but didn't show anything more than his normal levels used effectively IMO. > > > Graviton > He had one good showing in Thunderbolts where he blindsided all the worlds heroes, but aside from that, he's done nothing out of line with a high end Surfer or Thor issue. Thor has defeated him head to head as well. > > All in all, with his high end showings factored in, he's a solid herald IMO. > > > > > Red Hulk (qualifies under the "without too much effort annihilates a herald level character" part of your defintion) > > > Yeah > > > Sentry pre-Mighty Avengers (he did annihilate Terrax...) > even post Mighty Avengers is somewhat ambiguous, so yeah, Sentry is there > > > > Onslaught > > > > > 8th Day Juggernaut > maybe > > > > Mongul with yellow rings > > > maybe a low end

... should be even higher based on his performance against the same Sodam who was also at the time backed up in that fight by some top tier GLs.

Spoilers from GL Corps #26 below:

http://www.comicboards.com/app/show.php?msg=comicbattles-2008072402272412&search=Maestro

> > > KC Superman (may be borderline here) > IMO he's a high end herald. > > > > Black Mary (before losing her powers in defeating Eclypso) > > > maybe...maybe top end herald...at best the bottom end of this category...Isis' powers didn't seem to make her stronger, faster, or more durable, just add a significant amount of other mystic powers, which makes her more like Thor or Surfer, who has comparable physical stats and huge levels of EP as well...such capacity would move a mid range herald like Mary, CM, or even Superman to the top tier category IMO, but because of the combat speed advantage MAY put her slightly over the edge... > > > War Hulk > yes > > > > World War Hulk > > > herald > > > > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > > Mordru > > > Durok > > > Desak > > > Morg WOL > > > Lord Tantalus > > > Titannus > > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > > PE Zuras > > > Tyrant > > > Highfather > > > Takion > > > The Doctor > > > Dr. Manhatten > > > Solar > > > Superboy Prime > > > Ion Sodam Yat > > > Karnilla > > > Monarch > > > Molecule Man > > > HP Doomsday > > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > > The Void > > > Super Adaptoid > > > Amazo > > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > > Afro Magus > > > Runner > > > Grandmaster > > > Champion w/gem > > > Mangog (recent) > > > Destroyer > > > Despero (V&V) > >

> gained the runepower. Thor faced him under only his own power and without Mjolnir, and came away with a KO. > > Also, what actual showings indicate that Karnilla is above top end herald? > > Further, we have enough showings of the Void to indicate that he's WAY above Thor, who is top tier herald...why would he be top end herald when he's probably superior to several guys you agree with in the teambuster rank... > > > > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > agree > > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > Besides (PM), I don't see any (JLA) member winning this guy! > > > Mordru > > To be honest, he's just more powerful b/c of the artifacts he gets/steals, I still believe that (Loki) with prep can probably take hime! > > > Durok > > He's very questionable b/c of (Oeming)'s run, remember that it was (Rune/Odinpower Thor) who took him out! So with that in mind I have to say yes! > > > Desak > > Agree > > > Morg WOL > > Agree > > > Lord Tantalus > > Agree > > > Titannus > > Agree > > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > Well anybody with (10: QR's) has to be! > > > PE Zuras > > Agree, Zuras IMHO opinion is (Skyfather) level, and is equal in pwr to (Zeus)! > > > Tyrant > > Agree > > > Highfather > > Low End Skyfather > > > Takion > > See Above > > > The Doctor > > See Above > > > Dr. Manhatten > > See Above > > > Solar > > See Above > > > Superboy Prime > > Agree > > > Ion Sodam Yat > > Agree > > > Karnilla > > Low End Skyfather > > > Monarch > > Agree > > > Molecule Man > > Agree > > > HP Doomsday > > Agree > > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > Agree > > > The Void > > High End Herald > > > Super Adaptoid > > Agree > > > Amazo > > Agree > > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > High End Herald > > > Afro Magus > > High End Herald > > > Runner > > High End Herald > > > Grandmaster > > Agree > > > Champion w/gem > > High End Herald > > > Mangog (recent) > > Agree > > > Destroyer > > Agree > > > Despero (V&V) > > Agree > >

I haven't read it yet, but I'd still be inclined to think that Yat is more powerful, if less effective. Yat has superspeed (which I doubt he used against Mongul) that Mongul doesn't have an answer to, along with comparable strength, similar stacked durability,and comparably EP.

Yat is, IMO, BARELY above the limit based on his powerset, though he seemed to do fairly well against Superman Prime. Both of these are pretty questionable, but its really the stacked durability that might make the difference. Yat's capacity for using superspeed almost certainly cements him there, even if he doesn't use the power often.

> > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > Using just the definitions above... > > Post power-up Nefaria > > WWIII Black Adam (he did battle the combined JLA & JSA teams to a draw) > > Graviton > > Red Hulk (qualifies under the "without too much effort annihilates a herald level character" part of your defintion) > > Sentry pre-Mighty Avengers (he did annihilate Terrax...) > > Onslaught > > 8th Day Juggernaut > > Mongul with yellow rings > > KC Superman (may be borderline here) > > Black Mary (before losing her powers in defeating Eclypso) > > War Hulk > > World War Hulk > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > Mordru > > Durok > > Desak > > Morg WOL > > Lord Tantalus > > Titannus > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > PE Zuras > > Tyrant > > Highfather > > Takion > > The Doctor > > Dr. Manhatten > > Solar > > Superboy Prime > > Ion Sodam Yat > > Karnilla > > Monarch > > Molecule Man > > HP Doomsday > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > The Void > > Super Adaptoid > > Amazo > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > Afro Magus > > Runner > > Grandmaster > > Champion w/gem > > Mangog (recent) > > Destroyer > > Despero (V&V) >

wait a minute...if you're talking about the Superman living in the Sun you're right, but if you're talking about the one that was Superboy Prime, then he's teambuster...

Did NOTHING.

> >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using just the definitions above... > > > > > > > > Post power-up Nefaria > > > Yes > > > > > > > > WWIII Black Adam (he did battle the combined JLA & JSA teams to a draw) > > > > > > > Yeah, but he had similar showings before, under his own power IIRC... > > > with Isis' power he SHOULD be, but didn't show anything more than his normal levels used effectively IMO. > > > > > > > Graviton > > > He had one good showing in Thunderbolts where he blindsided all the worlds heroes, but aside from that, he's done nothing out of line with a high end Surfer or Thor issue. Thor has defeated him head to head as well. > > > > > > All in all, with his high end showings factored in, he's a solid herald IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > Red Hulk (qualifies under the "without too much effort annihilates a herald level character" part of your defintion) > > > > > > > Yeah > > > > > > > Sentry pre-Mighty Avengers (he did annihilate Terrax...) > > > even post Mighty Avengers is somewhat ambiguous, so yeah, Sentry is there > > > > > > > > Onslaught > > > > > > > > > > > 8th Day Juggernaut > > > maybe > > > > > > > > Mongul with yellow rings > > > > > > > maybe a low end > > > > ... should be even higher based on his performance against the same Sodam who was also at the time backed up in that fight by some top tier GLs. > > I haven't read it yet, but I'd still be inclined to think that Yat is more powerful, if less effective. Yat has superspeed (which I doubt he used against Mongul) that Mongul doesn't have an answer to, along with comparable strength, similar stacked durability,and comparably EP. > > Yat is, IMO, BARELY above the limit based on his powerset, though he seemed to do fairly well against Superman Prime. Both of these are pretty questionable, but its really the stacked durability that might make the difference. Yat's capacity for using superspeed almost certainly cements him there, even if he doesn't use the power often. > > > > > > Spoilers from GL Corps #26 below: > > > > http://www.comicboards.com/app/show.php?msg=comicbattles-2008072402272412&search=Maestro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KC Superman (may be borderline here) > > > IMO he's a high end herald. > > > > > > > > Black Mary (before losing her powers in defeating Eclypso) > > > > > > > maybe...maybe top end herald...at best the bottom end of this category...Isis' powers didn't seem to make her stronger, faster, or more durable, just add a significant amount of other mystic powers, which makes her more like Thor or Surfer, who has comparable physical stats and huge levels of EP as well...such capacity would move a mid range herald like Mary, CM, or even Superman to the top tier category IMO, but because of the combat speed advantage MAY put her slightly over the edge... > > > > > > > War Hulk > > > yes > > > > > > > > World War Hulk > > > > > > > herald > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > > > > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > > > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > > > > Mordru > > > > > Durok > > > > > Desak > > > > > Morg WOL > > > > > Lord Tantalus > > > > > Titannus > > > > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > > > > PE Zuras > > > > > Tyrant > > > > > Highfather > > > > > Takion > > > > > The Doctor > > > > > Dr. Manhatten > > > > > Solar > > > > > Superboy Prime > > > > > Ion Sodam Yat > > > > > Karnilla > > > > > Monarch > > > > > Molecule Man > > > > > HP Doomsday > > > > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > > > > The Void > > > > > Super Adaptoid > > > > > Amazo > > > > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > > > > Afro Magus > > > > > Runner > > > > > Grandmaster > > > > > Champion w/gem > > > > > Mangog (recent) > > > > > Destroyer > > > > > Despero (V&V) > > > > > >

manhandle the Savage Hulk, casually breaking every bone in his body simultaneously. Further, he was owning entire teams of heroes, Thor included. All in all, he's consistently been at LEAST on par with Sentry during his 'I own Terrax' days...and THAT Sentry is beyond Thor, Surfer etc.

All in all, the Void is at least a solid teambuster...

> gained the runepower. Thor faced him under only his own power and without Mjolnir, and came away with a KO. > > Also, what actual showings indicate that Karnilla is above top end herald? > > Further, we have enough showings of the Void to indicate that he's WAY above Thor, who is top tier herald...why would he be top end herald when he's probably superior to several guys you agree with in the teambuster rank... > > > > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > agree > > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > Besides (PM), I don't see any (JLA) member winning this guy! > > > Mordru > > To be honest, he's just more powerful b/c of the artifacts he gets/steals, I still believe that (Loki) with prep can probably take hime! > > > Durok > > He's very questionable b/c of (Oeming)'s run, remember that it was (Rune/Odinpower Thor) who took him out! So with that in mind I have to say yes! > > > Desak > > Agree > > > Morg WOL > > Agree > > > Lord Tantalus > > Agree > > > Titannus > > Agree > > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > Well anybody with (10: QR's) has to be! > > > PE Zuras > > Agree, Zuras IMHO opinion is (Skyfather) level, and is equal in pwr to (Zeus)! > > > Tyrant > > Agree > > > Highfather > > Low End Skyfather > > > Takion > > See Above > > > The Doctor > > See Above > > > Dr. Manhatten > > See Above > > > Solar > > See Above > > > Superboy Prime > > Agree > > > Ion Sodam Yat > > Agree > > > Karnilla > > Low End Skyfather > > > Monarch > > Agree > > > Molecule Man > > Agree > > > HP Doomsday > > Agree > > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > Agree > > > The Void > > High End Herald > > > Super Adaptoid > > Agree > > > Amazo > > Agree > > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > High End Herald > > > Afro Magus > > High End Herald > > > Runner > > High End Herald > > > Grandmaster > > Agree > > > Champion w/gem > > High End Herald > > > Mangog (recent) > > Agree > > > Destroyer > > Agree > > > Despero (V&V) > > Agree > >

This was right after he was fighting Loki, Fenris, and Ulik with Mjolnir knockoffs, and Asgard was being destroyed. AFTER his fight with Durok, he retraced Odin's steps, plucked both eyes out and actually died on the World Tree in order to gain the Runepower.

He fough Durok with only his classic powerset and with Mjolnir broken.

> > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > Don't think there was ever a doubt Thanos was tier ahead of heralds > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > Agreed for pwning a group of JLAers > > Mordru > Haven't followed him enough to say > > Durok > Not enough impressive showings to say for sure has been BFR'd for like a decade or two hasn't he? > > Desak > Too specialized to say but cleaning house on pantheons is impressive. Need to see him outside of that realm to be convinced though. > > Morg WOL > Yup. He's def. in the realm see defeat of all of the previous heralds or man handling at the very least. > > Lord Tantalus > Yup. Black legacy or whatever it's called is like the PC Omegas. > > Titannus > Didn't follow him. > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > If this is permanent w/rings then yes. Otherwise give it to MM or Wonderwoman and they're in the class too. > > PE Zuras > Skyfather at least. Not sure why he's demoted here. > > Tyrant > I must be missing something these last two guys are at least skirting on skyfather level. > > Highfather > Haven't seen anything in combat from Highfather to say for sure. > > Takion > Same as Highfather. > > The Doctor > Pass > > Dr. Manhatten > Pass > > Solar > Pass > > Superboy Prime > Yep herald team annihilator for sure. > > Ion Sodam Yat > Pass > > Karnilla > Asgard witch? what's she done above say Hela? > > Monarch > At least. > > Molecule Man > Skirting skyfatherish realm > > HP Doomsday > Yup. > > Phoenix (GOTG) > Potentially. > > The Void > Verdict still out on Void and Sentry. > > Super Adaptoid > Depends on who he gets around too much to say for sure. > > Amazo > Depends on version Android version is skyfather imo. Namor look alike is at least herald team beater level. > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > Pass > > Afro Magus > Reality manipulation is hard to gauge but yeah at least this level. > > Runner > Again other than smacking SS around what's he done? > > Grandmaster > Not enough combat to say. Think most just give him this high a rating based on Elder of Universe title. > > Champion w/gem > No way. He was never able to consciously tap the power gem when he had it (Infinity Quest). If Champ is here Dumb Drax is skyfather level hehe. > > Mangog (recent) > Any version is herald team beater level. > > Destroyer > Same depending on who is inhabiting it could skirt skyfather level. > > Despero (V&V) > Don't care who said what. V&V Despero showed it against multiple herald levelers. > > Add > Terminus > Supreme > Godstalker-base level potential to be skyfather level with Celestial amping > Goddess > Warlock- Potentially, Depending on incarnation > Black Adam- Potentially > Lunatik > Jinni- Thor villain > Fredd > Vartox- At least in hyperbole..need to bring him back with better outfit. > Onslaught > Dark Angel > Minion > Elder Demon > Millenius > > All I can think of for now. > > > > > > > > >

> This was right after he was fighting Loki, Fenris, and Ulik with Mjolnir knockoffs, and Asgard was being destroyed. AFTER his fight with Durok, he retraced Odin's steps, plucked both eyes out and actually died on the World Tree in order to gain the Runepower. > > He fough Durok with only his classic powerset and with Mjolnir broken.

Bill fights Fenris, Thor takes out Durok. In Thor 83, Bill is left in charge. Thor meets with the Odinpower which reveals why it left him, then Thor sacrifices his eyes. In Thor 84, Thor sacrifices himself and returns with the Runepower and Odinpower.

He is only 'enlightened' in 84 and 85. Mjolnir is broken before the fight with Durok.

> This was right after he was fighting Loki, Fenris, and Ulik with Mjolnir knockoffs, and Asgard was being destroyed. AFTER his fight with Durok, he retraced Odin's steps, plucked both eyes out and actually died on the World Tree in order to gain the Runepower.

> wait a minute...if you're talking about the Superman living in the Sun you're right, but if you're talking about the one that was Superboy Prime, then he's teambuster... > > > I think we have enough to go on in this thread. We have officially populated a Heraldbuster class (despite minor arguments.) > > > > I think the next level (Cosmic or Skyfather) should include Odin, fed Galactus, Inbetweener, Neron, Superman Prime, Yuga Khan, etc. - basically anyone who could casually beat a heraldbuster or give a good fight to a group of heraldbusters. > > > > It's not really important to populate this level but it probably goes from Odin to the Celestials and stops short of abstracts/uber gods. > > > > > > > Thanks to vermin for bringing this up yesterday. > > > > > > Now I want to populate it. Basically, just think of a character who, without too much effort, annihilates a herald character or battles a group of heralds and prime metas. > > > > > > Agree/Disagree and add more! > > > > > > Thanos (for pwning SS among other) > > > Fernus (for pwning Supes among others) > > > Mordru > > > Durok > > > Desak > > > Morg WOL > > > Lord Tantalus > > > Titannus > > > Cyborg Supes w/rings > > > PE Zuras > > > Tyrant > > > Highfather > > > Takion > > > The Doctor > > > Dr. Manhatten > > > Solar > > > Superboy Prime > > > Ion Sodam Yat > > > Karnilla > > > Monarch > > > Molecule Man > > > HP Doomsday > > > Phoenix (GOTG) > > > The Void > > > Super Adaptoid > > > Amazo > > > Annihilus (Annihilation) > > > Afro Magus > > > Runner > > > Grandmaster > > > Champion w/gem > > > Mangog (recent) > > > Destroyer > > > Despero (V&V)

> Bill fights Fenris, Thor takes out Durok. In Thor 83, Bill is left in charge. Thor meets with the Odinpower which reveals why it left him, then Thor sacrifices his eyes. In Thor 84, Thor sacrifices himself and returns with the Runepower and Odinpower. > > He is only 'enlightened' in 84 and 85. Mjolnir is broken before the fight with Durok. > > > This was right after he was fighting Loki, Fenris, and Ulik with Mjolnir knockoffs, and Asgard was being destroyed. AFTER his fight with Durok, he retraced Odin's steps, plucked both eyes out and actually died on the World Tree in order to gain the Runepower. > > > > He fough Durok with only his classic powerset and with Mjolnir broken.