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Author
JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Remember that he was lectured once by Moon Dragon, after he finally unloaded and KO Orca that was 3X more powerful than his normal self...

She said he watered his powers down, being among Humnas so much that he almost forgotten just how powerful he was, afraid to "let it go"...

Almost like in JL cartoon when Supes "enjoyed" cutting loose on darkseid, as he knew that he could withstand his full power attack...

Another reason for Thor to appear weaker at times?

just as Supes raised among Humans, thinks like a Human, and "holds it back" afraid to hurt others?


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Jaysin1414




..but I think the real reason is that creative teams need to come up with compelling stories where these uber-powerful characters are challenged. Rather than facing a new galactic threat each month (even that would start to be unbelievable), there has to be a way for more mundane threats to seem plausible. Thus, the bad showings must creep in and show that even the god and visitors from another planet are 'mortal'. For every Imperiex or Surtur battle, so too must these guys be challenged by the likes of Toy Man and the Wrecker.

Also - folks like Thor and Superman who routinely face existential threats in their own books, have to be watered down in their team books as to not always be overshadowing the other characters (which is hard for me as an Iron Man fan to say). Sure the other earth-bound heroes are valiant and powerful, but when all existence is being threatened, MU and DCU authorities aren't putting a call in for the Vision or Wonder Woman, they're going to their big guns...Thor or Superman. In a team book, this would get old fast (especially to fans of the other characters) so the demi-gods must step back so the other heroes may step forward...





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Hatman





    Quote:
    ..but I think the real reason is that creative teams need to come up with compelling stories where these uber-powerful characters are challenged. Rather than facing a new galactic threat each month (even that would start to be unbelievable), there has to be a way for more mundane threats to seem plausible. Thus, the bad showings must creep in and show that even the god and visitors from another planet are 'mortal'. For every Imperiex or Surtur battle, so too must these guys be challenged by the likes of Toy Man and the Wrecker.



    Quote:
    Also - folks like Thor and Superman who routinely face existential threats in their own books, have to be watered down in their team books as to not always be overshadowing the other characters (which is hard for me as an Iron Man fan to say). Sure the other earth-bound heroes are valiant and powerful, but when all existence is being threatened, MU and DCU authorities aren't putting a call in for the Vision or Wonder Woman, they're going to their big guns...Thor or Superman. In a team book, this would get old fast (especially to fans of the other characters) so the demi-gods must step back so the other heroes may step forward...


Unfortunately I think this is what happens a lot to the Martian Manhunter. Because he is so powerful, he often gets taken out first to showcase how powerful the new threat is. This then makes the other characters look good, AND leaves the inspirational Superman showing on the table as well.

~Hat~


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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,466



    Quote:
    Remember that he was lectured once by Moon Dragon, after he finally unloaded and KO Orca that was 3X more powerful than his normal self...



    Quote:
    She said he watered his powers down, being among Humnas so much that he almost forgotten just how powerful he was, afraid to "let it go"...



    Quote:
    Almost like in JL cartoon when Supes "enjoyed" cutting loose on darkseid, as he knew that he could withstand his full power attack...



    Quote:
    Another reason for Thor to appear weaker at times?



    Quote:
    just as Supes raised among Humans, thinks like a Human, and "holds it back" afraid to hurt others?

I wondered how the Asgardians would be preceived by the humans if the gods cut loose and started killing them? The gods have no such mercy on giants, trolls and such I wonder how they would be preceived if they extended the same courtesy to the humans.  

I remember in an issue of Thor not wanting to kill the Wrecker during one of their earlier encounters when clearly he has the power to do so. Thor had to find a way to beat the Wrecker without killing him. In the Siege how do the gods not appear heartless by not holding back but going for the killing blow. If the gods are fighting a defensive fight while the humans are playing for keeps do the gods kill just to save themselves or die out of mercy to the humans?
 


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Don P.




the Incredible One himself has NEVER defeated the U-Foes by himself.
Some of the most powerful incarnations, Savage, Mindless, Green Scar have either been on the ropes or had their behind handed to them by the U-Foes before they got help.
The U-Foes are seriously under-rated outside of Hulk circles.


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Liam Gallagher's Unibrow


Location: Mega-City One
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    the Incredible One himself has NEVER defeated the U-Foes by himself.



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    Some of the most powerful incarnations, Savage, Mindless, Green Scar have either been on the ropes or had their behind handed to them by the U-Foes before they got help.


Not sure that's accurate. The Banner Hulk beat them solo. The Mindless Hulk beat them solo barring the Puffball Collective showing Hulk which direction to run in.

The Merged Hulk also beat them, I forget if the Pantheon got involved in that one though.


    Quote:
    The U-Foes are seriously under-rated outside of Hulk circles.


This I agree with. Vector alone is pretty uber.





Cheers.







Chancellor Liam, Dean of the Forgotten Green Academy of Gamma Sciences
"Hulk would have to be in a life or death struggle for a good 25+ years to BEGIN to start to surpass [Thor]." - MjolnirsPower
I Fought the Law and the Law Won... A Judge Dredd Respect Thread
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=2435.0
(work in progress)
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Don P.





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      the Incredible One himself has NEVER defeated the U-Foes by himself.

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        Some of the most powerful incarnations, Savage, Mindless, Green Scar have either been on the ropes or had their behind handed to them by the U-Foes before they got help.



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    Not sure that's accurate. The Banner Hulk beat them solo.


Banner Hulk got a whupping by the U-Foes. It was only because of Bereet, Rick & Betty that he was saved.


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    The Mindless Hulk beat them solo barring the Puffball Collective showing Hulk which direction to run in.


It was the Puffballs' tactics that lead to the win. The only one the Hulk actually overpowered was Vector.


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    The Merged Hulk also beat them, I forget if the Pantheon got involved in that one though.


Yes, the Pantheon helped him out a number of times while he was on the ropes. This was probably the best Hulk/U-Foes fight written so far.


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      The U-Foes are seriously under-rated outside of Hulk circles.



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    This I agree with. Vector alone is pretty uber.


No argument here.


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    Cheers.


Right back at ya.




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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Him holding back Is one reason but not a unilaterally convincing one when taken as a whole.

There is no doubt he often holds back to some degree when on earth, as do all heroes, but ALL the time? Unlikely given his temperament and the needs of the task at hand. His performance level is what it is, whether he's on Asgard, earth, out in space or elsewhere in the MU his average is quite consistent and can be gauged with some accuracy.
The occasions where he has specifically unloaded on an opponent do not generally show his strengthlevel doubling, you'd have a tough time convincing that he's going easy on every opponent it's more to do with him balancing out both his teammates and his opponents as a result of storytelling needs obviously but I don't think anyone can credibly argue he's going easy in Siege for example, not when the situation is so serious and the cost might be his own life. Chronically underestimating your opponents like that doesn't fit into Thors background, if he's taking punishment in situations like that he doesn't need to hold back at all....

After Ragnarok he has been much more demonstrative with his power and showing his strength, the loss of the Odinpower however has definitly made its mark in both storytelling terms and in his showings. If the loss of that extra power and the events in Siege are setting the example for future writers then a clear line has been drawn under the JMS interprettion of Thor as being allpowerful and a force to be reckoned with... Post JMS and with Siege he has very publicly stepped down from that high plateau to once again rejoing the MU, and that automatically means his showings are not going to be what they could be if he was still isolated in his own seperate corner of the world doing his own thing. He's now measured against much lesser bodies, the price of both being a teamplayer and fitting in.



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Bird-Man of Akah Ma'at


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,332


After Thor's resurrection, he told Stark he wasn't holding back anymore after he beat the $^!* outta him and made him walk home.

I can understand saving the best for last and all the drama and suspense that comes before it.. but I would've wanted nothing more than have Thor stand his ground like he did against the U-foes' barrage then saying something like "You broketh into the wrong house!", Mjolnir raised high, striking them all down in a fiery spectacle of mystically guided thunderbolts. The smoke clears revealing Norman and his boys laying flat out faces in the dirt as Thor stands triumphant over the smoldering figures. Next Issue: The Reckoning! Nuff said!





"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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Maestro






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          the Incredible One himself has NEVER defeated the U-Foes by himself.

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            Some of the most powerful incarnations, Savage, Mindless, Green Scar have either been on the ropes or had their behind handed to them by the U-Foes before they got help.

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          Not sure that's accurate. The Banner Hulk beat them solo.



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    Banner Hulk got a whupping by the U-Foes. It was only because of Bereet, Rick & Betty that he was saved.


Yup... Banner was saved after losing the first fight to the Ufoes (mainly due to X-Ray somehow neutralizing the gamma rays in Hulk's body which caused him to transform back to Banner). But in the rematch he won convincingly.





















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      The Mindless Hulk beat them solo barring the Puffball Collective showing Hulk which direction to run in.



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    It was the Puffballs' tactics that lead to the win. The only one the Hulk actually overpowered was Vector.



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      The Merged Hulk also beat them, I forget if the Pantheon got involved in that one though.



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    Yes, the Pantheon helped him out a number of times while he was on the ropes. This was probably the best Hulk/U-Foes fight written so far.



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        The U-Foes are seriously under-rated outside of Hulk circles.

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        This I agree with. Vector alone is pretty uber.



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    No argument here.



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      Cheers.



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    Right back at ya.






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smallfry




You are waaaay overestimating the gods. The only Asgardians with any real power are Thor, Loki, and Odin. I give the warriors three, Baldar, Sif and whatsisname there on the bridge a little better than average Asgardian ability... but the rest of them are no tougher than Luke Cage. You assume they can just kill the humans if they wanted to, but it's nowhere near that easy. Norman has launched a serious threat on Asgard, and many of it's residents are in danger of their lives.


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Kadaj




Heimdall is the dude who guards the bridge.


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midgard

hardly the same "situation" though



He didn't get clocked by Sentry and wayyyyyyyy more importantly, they didn't all combine onto one shot along with patriot like they did thor......Hulk did great, but no comparison...not even close based on how the fights were set-up with prep and all too.


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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,466



    Quote:
    You are waaaay overestimating the gods. The only Asgardians with any real power are Thor, Loki, and Odin. I give the warriors three, Baldar, Sif and whatsisname there on the bridge a little better than average Asgardian ability... but the rest of them are no tougher than Luke Cage. You assume they can just kill the humans if they wanted to, but it's nowhere near that easy. Norman has launched a serious threat on Asgard, and many of it's residents are in danger of their lives.

 
You are waaaaay underestimating the gods. There are more gods that have power than what you just listed. You didn't mention Karnilla (who is equal to or superior to Loki in magics). Hela, the Einhejar (Harokin and the warriors of Valhalla), Skurge, The Enchantress, Frey, Tyr the War god, Hermod the god of speed. Marvel dosen't have enough space in this 4 part series to bring everything that Asgard has and to be honest not everything has even been mentioned. Never the less all of these I dare say are above Luke Cage in terms of overall power. Most have magic weapons and centuires of skill using those weapons and fighting. You also forget that Luke Cage is no slouch either. Imagine a city with hundreds if not thousands of Luke Cages with weapons that can serious hurt you. Remember what Luke did when he had the Wrecker's crow bar (Venom does), imagine hundreds with swords, and other magical weapons trying to kill you. It was Loki who gave the Absorbing Man his powers and Karnilla that gave the Wrecker his so these gods outside of Odin have done things that still effect the Marvel earth.

In general the gods do not go around butching humans whether they are super powered or not but if pushed into a corner that may all change. The bottom line is that the gods will be watered down for his story because on paper the humans would and should loose this fight. What Norman bought to the fight is not enough IMO to win and is foolish at best to even try. Ares and the rest of his team didn't want to even start this fight but because Norman is being used by Loki they are going for it. In the scanned images for the next issue, it looks like Ares is having second thoughts about this and I think it will blow up in Normans face but of course Iron Man and Cap will have to be brought in to give Thor a hand with Osborne.   



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smallfry




yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of the population of Asgard isn't gods, it's Asgardians. I left out people like Enchantress and Executioner and Hela mainly because they don't necessarily have Asgard's best interests at heart anyway. I'm not all that impressed by Luke Cage in general (I could take him, for instance), but he seems to be about normal Asgardian level... the heroes and villains in the siege shouldn't have much to worry about.


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