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Author
G.Puke




See pic...one from each column.


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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,764


Can I have TWO Thors for six bucks ;\-\)
Vidar


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sheridan




Prof. X
Thor
Cable
IM
GL




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Oculporate




1$ Cable
3$ Professor X
5$ Iron Man
4$ The Flash
1$ Shazam

1$ left over





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Voyeur




Professor X, Superman, Cable, Mr. Fantastic, Green Lantern


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Thorion


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,209



Leader: Nick Fury ($1), Muscle: Thor ($3) & Shazam ($1), Enforcer: Cable ($1), Technicians: Mr. Fantastic ($3) & Black Panther ($2), Wild Card: Flash ($4)





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Voyeur




Only 5 guys, total.

One from each category. Gotta spend the full 15 that way, or less. But you can't save to get extra guys.



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Olorin




For me the toughest picks to get to $15 or less are deciding between The Muscle and The Technician (where I think Mr. Fantastic is smarter and Iron Man is more powerful). For me it makes sense mostly to lock in Professor X as Leader (due to his overwhelming telepathic powers), Cable as Enforcer (he's tough and he's cheap on this list), and Flash as Wild Card (the guy is too powerful in this group to pass up).

Here are a couple picks:

Professor X ($3)
Wonder Woman ($2)
Cable ($1)
Iron Man ($5)
The Flash ($4)

Professor X ($3)
Shazam ($1)
Cable ($1)
Iron Man ($5)
The Flash ($4)

Professor X ($3)
Thor ($3)
Cable ($1)
Mr. Fantastic ($3)
The Flash ($4)

Professor X ($3)
Thor ($3)
Cable ($1)
Iron Man ($3)
Green Lantern ($4)



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Thorion


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,209









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mysteryman





    Quote:
    See pic...one from each column.


Hmmm.....very interesting way to post this.
Nice to see a variation, kudos to you!

My Picks:

Leader: $3 Professor-X...the tp coordination and a solid leader
The Muscle: $3 Thor...seems so cheap! \:\)
The Enforcer: $1 Cable...seems under-costed is also an ok leader and TP
The Technician: $5 Iron Man...didn't think I would be able to afford this guy but the other picks were cheap enough...adds another capable leader
The Wild Card: $3 Green Lantern...was a toss-up between him and Flash but only had $3 left so choice was made easy...also another leader typ


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Thorion


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,209



L: Batman ($4), M: Thor ($3), E: Cable ($1), T: MF ($3), WC: GL ($3)





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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Prof. X
    Thor
    Cable
    IM
    GL


Professor X is easily the most powerful of the Leader group and so is a bargain at $3

Thor is as powerful as anyone in the Muscle group and so is a bargain at $3. Any margin between Superman, Hulk, and Thor is not nearly as significant as the difference between their pricing.

Cable would arguably beat any of the other enforcers one-on-one and so is a bargain at $1.

Green Lantern is the most powerful of the Wild Card group and so is a bargain at $3.

Given that we've maxed out in every group on only $10 that makes the Technician decision easier as cost doesn't factor in.

Mr. Fantastic is the best prep master of the Technicians, but Iron Man has significantly more inherent power and is nearly as good at prep so Iron Man it should be.

Your group should beat any other group named in this thread.




How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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Oculporate




That or Flash/Shazam depending on your opinion on Flash vs. GL


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    That or Flash/Shazam depending on your opinion on Flash vs. GL


So consider Thor and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Shazam (Billy Batson) and Flash (Barry Allen). Flash is the only one who can't fly and is limited in how much he can affect the flyers. If Hal creates a force bubble around himself, Thor, and Shazam, then Flash is out of the fight and Shazam gets double-teamed. Once Shazam is down, Thor and Hal can then double team Flash. Green Lantern is just more versatile than Flash unless we subscribe to Flash's very highest showings only.




How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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bouken red






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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,929




    Quote:
    See pic...one from each column.


The Leader - Professor (3)
Muscle - Shazam (1)
Enforcer - Hawkgirl (2)
Technician - Iron Man (5)
Wild Card - Flash (4)





Moderator: Star Trek Board ''He stood alone at Gjallerbru... and that answer is enough.''
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Volstagg jr




I should be insulted you got Thor listed at $3 but seeing as not a single poster picked Superman or Hulk, things have a way of working out. These guys know a bargain when they see one!


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Oculporate




Average showings. GL and Flash vs. Superman. GL can't touch Superman, Flash made him look silly (then Supes made Flash look silly but each was obviously the two most powerful there). 1000 GL's vs SBP GLs lose, SBP vs. 3 Flashes Flashes win. Flash is on average at least equivalent and if not superior to GLs.

However I can understand the versatility argument and can agree that in many situations you are correct, but not all.


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Oculporate




Yep, only people who didn't took the other WW or Shazam bargains.


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bragagain007


Member Since: Tue Dec 27, 2016
Posts: 435



    Quote:
    See pic...one from each column.

Professor X / Superman / Cable / Reed Richards / Green Lantern




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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,929




    Quote:
    See pic...one from each column.


No one has argued about Superman being top, as he is the king of the herald levelers.

However the point system, shows a near peer Captain Marvel being a fifth cheaper and Thor just over half the points, which I think is fair, 2 Thors probably could beat Superman.

Obviously the sheer amount which points can buy you can make a difference from picking a street (Batman) to a prime meta (Professor), so I can see why some people opted for Thor instead.






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Braugi




I see a couple of great values here. Thor, being only $3, assuming it is classic Thor is a steal. Professor X at $3 is a good leader and also top tier powerwise. Mr. Fantastic is reasonably powerful and the best deus ex machina tech in comics. Black Panther at $2 is also a steal. IM has the benefit of being very powerful and a good tech guy, but I think Mr. F and BP are excellent picks...

I'm going with:
The Leader: Professor X...top level psi power with good leadership
ability, and if he isn't in the field,
my other pics are also capable in that role
The Muscle: Thor. Classic Thor I have a guy nearly as strong as the
Hulk, with the highest Energy projection of anyone
on this list...
Enforcer Hawkgirl: Nth metal has some useful properties against some
enemies
and makes her a threat against even some big league
opponents, which Punny and Black Widow aren't. Wolverine
has almost deus ex machina healing and cutting, but at $5
he's to expensive. Cable at 1 might be the biggest steal
but I'm assuming that his psi is kept very much in check,
so its pretty much classic Cable with almost no super
powers.
Technician: Mr. Fantastic...he's actually pretty powerful, a pretty
good field leader, and has the most deus ex machina tech
showings in comdics. I did consider going with BP and
pushing for Wolverine, but that leaves the team overall
weaker IMO
Wild Card: Flash...look, both Spidey and GL are good picks
and depends on which GL, because some could be great
secondary leaders. GL's have great EP and versatility, and
Spidey punches way out of his weight class...still, spidey
is overcosted IMO for what he gives you, and while GL
is a value at 3, Flash brings solid power and his own deus
ex machina power with the speed force and speed tricks

On a good showing, Flash can own teams by stealing speed
or whatever....on a lower showing, he could lose
to Spidey, but is still something to be reckoned with, and
pairing him with Reed Richards is a potentially dynamite
combination (not to mention giving Reed access to nth metal)

So, my team of Professor X, Thor, Hawkgirl, Mr. Fantastic, and the Flash

with alternate versions that swap Flash and GL and/or Richards and Black Panther

I don't think you get much from bumping to Iron Man from those two honestly.

For a pretty even match, you stick with Professor X, take Shazam, Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, and Green Lantern (or Black Panther and Flash)...Shazam doesn't bring as much plot device power as Thor, but is a true peer to Superman IMO, and Wolverine brings his own plot device power in the enforcer category, and is probably better than Hawkgirl


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Braugi




Shazam is essentially Captain marvel isn't he? If so, he's a real bargain at $1

Cable, I think it depends a lot on what level his psi is at, which seems to change so much I don't know. If you treat him as classic cable, with virtually no psi, IMO Wolverine is more formidible (and you've got Prof. X psi already), and both Wolverine and Hawkgirl can punch out of their weight class (with the nth metal weaponry, she's a threat to Superman level opponents...with her durability she's also vulerable to street levellers, but don't underrate the nth metal).

I don't know how Flash is being written now, and he's always struggled with some lower level foes, but he's also shown the ability to own top tiers when needed...plot device power.

I also think you may be undervaluing Reed's 'pull it from my butt' tech power, though the gap has closed quite a bit in the past decade. Black Panther may be the best value there though, as he had some VERY impressive showings in his last solo series...

But yeah, those are all very efficient and effective pics, and the Prof. X pick is a complete no brainer.


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Braugi




stealing all of the evil Impulses kinetic energy and leaving him as a statue, dumping people in the speed force, etc.

With speed tricks fully in force, he could own them. His typical operating level is lower, however, so I think either GL or Flash is a great pick...even better if you can pick the GL...they all have their respective strengths, but someone like Kilowog is scary to face, or if you want to really game it, someone like Mogo...


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Braugi




but also a team with at least 4 characters that have shown massive plot device powers...Thor's godblast and other stuff, Mr. F tech, Flash speed force and speed tricks, and Hawkgirl nth metal. In any given situation, someone is going to pull out a win with one of those...


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:


      Quote:
      See pic...one from each column.



    Quote:
    No one has argued about Superman being top, as he is the king of the herald levelers.



    Quote:
    However the point system, shows a near peer Captain Marvel being a fifth cheaper and Thor just over half the points, which I think is fair, 2 Thors probably could beat Superman.


Historically, the board as a whole puts Thor above Superman. Some years ago when Incriptus did his project to gauge how herald-levelers fared against one another, and got 41 responses, the results for these five averaged out to be:

Thor beats Superman 58.3% of the time.
Thor beats Hulk 61.8% of the time.
Thor beats Wonder Woman 75.2% of the time.
Thor beats Captain Marvel (Batson) 55.6% of the time.
Thor on average beats all herald-levelers 60.9% of the time.

Superman beats Hulk 64.2% of the time.
Superman beats Wonder Woman 71.8% of the time.
Superman beats Captain Marvel (Batson) 50.8% of the time.
Superman on average beats all herald-levelers 56.7% of the time.

When I engaged in a "Survivor" game a few years ago with a couple of dozen people on the board voting out the least powerful of the group remaining each day, Superman placed fourth. Thor came in first, Black Adam second, and Silver Surfer third.

So basically, in every survey I've seen in 15 years on this board, board consensus is that Thor > Superman regardless of Busiek's take.





How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Average showings. GL and Flash vs. Superman. GL can't touch Superman, Flash made him look silly (then Supes made Flash look silly but each was obviously the two most powerful there). 1000 GL's vs SBP GLs lose, SBP vs. 3 Flashes Flashes win. Flash is on average at least equivalent and if not superior to GLs.


I'm not sure that's a fair analogy. SBP had a phobia when it came to Flashes. Also, Hal's given Superman a tough fight before.


    Quote:
    However I can understand the versatility argument and can agree that in many situations you are correct, but not all.


Of course Flash is going to fare better against some opponents than Green Lantern, but in general, Flash's versatility options are seldom used compared to Green Lantern's. Who's going to have more trouble against Flash's traditional rogue's gallery between Flash and GL? Captain Boomerang? Captain Cold? Heat Wave? Mirror Master? Trickster? Reverse Flash? On average, I think Green Lantern's going to have an easier time.

But what about GL's rogues - Solomon Grundy, Hector Hammond, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, Doctor Polaris, Krona, Major Force, Parallax, Atrocitus? I think it's pretty clear that Green Lantern will have a slightly easier time against most of them than Flash. It's also apparent that GL's rogue's gallery is much tougher.





How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Shazam is essentially Captain marvel isn't he? If so, he's a real bargain at $1



    Quote:
    Cable, I think it depends a lot on what level his psi is at, which seems to change so much I don't know. If you treat him as classic cable, with virtually no psi, IMO Wolverine is more formidible (and you've got Prof. X psi already), and both Wolverine and Hawkgirl can punch out of their weight class (with the nth metal weaponry, she's a threat to Superman level opponents...with her durability she's also vulerable to street levellers, but don't underrate the nth metal).


Actually, if anyone in the Enforcer group is going to beat Cable, I think it's probably Hawkgirl, but even Cable without psi is very formidable. He's got a lot of tech including a big gun, so that range weapon gives him an advantage over Hawkgirl, who needs to get close. But up close, Cable's stalemated Wolverine hand to hand and even beaten Captain America:




    Quote:
    I don't know how Flash is being written now, and he's always struggled with some lower level foes, but he's also shown the ability to own top tiers when needed...plot device power.


Yes, Flash has a lot of plot device power, but so does Green Lantern's ring, and as I pointed out in another post here, Green Lantern's cosmic rogue's gallery is on average notably stronger than Flash's Earth-bound foes.


    Quote:
    I also think you may be undervaluing Reed's 'pull it from my butt' tech power, though the gap has closed quite a bit in the past decade. Black Panther may be the best value there though, as he had some VERY impressive showings in his last solo series...


Yes. I pointed out that about Reed in my evaluation. The thing is yes, if you have indefinite prep time, Reed is going to be more valuable than Tony, but if you have no prep time, Iron Man is going to be much more potent than Mr. Fantastic. I'm just saying on average, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Iron Man, and Cable is going to be a more powerful team than Flash (Barry Allen), Mr. Fantastic, and Hawkgirl. The difference isn't humongous though and the more prep involved, the closer it will be.





How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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Man-Beast


Member Since: Wed Jul 09, 2014




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bragagain007


Member Since: Tue Dec 27, 2016
Posts: 435




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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,929




    Quote:

      Quote:


        Quote:
        See pic...one from each column.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        No one has argued about Superman being top, as he is the king of the herald levelers.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          However the point system, shows a near peer Captain Marvel being a fifth cheaper and Thor just over half the points, which I think is fair, 2 Thors probably could beat Superman.



    Quote:
    Historically, the board as a whole puts Thor above Superman. Some years ago when Incriptus did his project to gauge how herald-levelers fared against one another, and got 41 responses, the results for these five averaged out to be:



    Quote:
    Thor beats Superman 58.3% of the time.
    Thor beats Hulk 61.8% of the time.
    Thor beats Wonder Woman 75.2% of the time.
    Thor beats Captain Marvel (Batson) 55.6% of the time.
    Thor on average beats all herald-levelers 60.9% of the time.



    Quote:
    Superman beats Hulk 64.2% of the time.
    Superman beats Wonder Woman 71.8% of the time.
    Superman beats Captain Marvel (Batson) 50.8% of the time.
    Superman on average beats all herald-levelers 56.7% of the time.



    Quote:
    When I engaged in a "Survivor" game a few years ago with a couple of dozen people on the board voting out the least powerful of the group remaining each day, Superman placed fourth. Thor came in first, Black Adam second, and Silver Surfer third.



    Quote:
    So basically, in every survey I've seen in 15 years on this board, board consensus is that Thor > Superman regardless of Busiek's take.








Moderator: Star Trek Board ''He stood alone at Gjallerbru... and that answer is enough.''
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