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Author
Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Since creating CGI animation like Gorilla Grodd is pretty expensive, it was pretty clever to have Barry fight Zoom, lose the fight and become paralyzed where he cannot use his speed. That saves money for Grodd. As a result, this episode has some pretty good characterization throughout.

The episode opens with Barry taking about six slow steps before he cannot continue. I cannot even begin to imagine what Barry must be going through. But he must be masking his emotions pretty well from the others with the kind of pain he must surely be feeling. He had been the Flash then got his butt kicked in a very humiliating way before being paralyzed. That is a recipe for bring an emotional wreck but somehow, Barry holds it together better than I would if I had been in his position. Even still, a bit later in the episode, the tests come back and say everything is fine with Barry. I think now, at this point, the only thing preventing Barry from having his speed is Barry himself. He needs to believe in himself again.

It takes balls to put on a spare Reverse Flash suit in order to try and rescue Caitlin, especially since Harry is going in without back-up. I am starting to like Harry, he’s growing on me and isn’t such a jerk anymore.

Bringing in Henry Allen to talk to Barry was a brilliant move considering what Barry went through or rather what both went through. A pep talk from dear ol’ dad lays it all out and Barry needs to embrace what was done to him and accept it. It’s how Barry can improve being a hero and become a better hero because of it.

I knew Barry would get his speed back and just in time to beat Grodd and not only that but banishing him to another world where it’s as close to home as possible. on top of that, Harry reveals that other apes like Grodd were sent there. So, it is a nice nod to Gorilla City even if it wasn’t specifically named. Barry needed this victory since he never officially beat Grodd in their first encounter. This should be a pretty big confidence booster.

Patty Spivott, you forgive Barry so readily after lying to you? I can buy that, but it’s a little too perfect. We need to see a few bumps in this blooming relationship.

I knew Barry would get his speed back so soon and I am glad it didn’t take a few episodes or better yet, the rest of the season.

All in all, a very nice episode. 4 out of 5 stars.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Having not seen the episode as yet it does seem to raise a question as to whether Barry had lost his speed thanks to the Wells formua or had it just temprarily dampened. That would imply Wells' formula is in fact little more than an anasthetic, which would explain how Zoom so quickly recovered as his metabolism is likely supercharged and burned the serum out in seconds compared to Barrys hours.
But what about Jay? His speed was stolen by Zoom himself? Did Zoom then fail to get the chance to take Barry's thanks to Cisco hitting him with the serum and therefore distracting him from his opportunity?

The serum and its failure is just one more element that makes me question whether Wells and Zoom are really as seperate as we are being told, far too many coincidences and conveniences in Zooms knowledge and awareness of events...




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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

    Having not seen the episode as yet it does seem to raise a question as to whether Barry had lost his speed thanks to the Wells formua or had it just temprarily dampened.


From my interpretation, I think Barry's speed probably got dampened temporarily. I saw no evidence to the contrary so we are left to assume.

The episode takes place a week after Barry got beaten by Zoom, so during that time Barry was healing. By the events of the episode it was clear that Barry had healed completely and he was just mentally blocking his speed because he lost confidence in himself. That's how I looked at it.


    Quote:
    That would imply Wells' formula is in fact little more than an anasthetic, which would explain how Zoom so quickly recovered as his metabolism is likely supercharged and burned the serum out in seconds compared to Barrys hours.


Nice thinking, that does make sense. Still, the formula presented just enough of a threat to make Zoom retreat. With some tweaking, I think it can be a serious threat if the writers choose to use the formula again.


    Quote:
    But what about Jay? His speed was stolen by Zoom himself? Did Zoom then fail to get the chance to take Barry's thanks to Cisco hitting him with the serum and therefore distracting him from his opportunity?


Yes. Zoom was about to absorb Barry's speed, but before he could Cisco shot Zoom and he ran off.


    Quote:
    The serum and its failure is just one more element that makes me question whether Wells and Zoom are really as seperate as we are being told, far too many coincidences and conveniences in Zooms knowledge and awareness of events...


Perhaps. But I'd like to think that the writers/producers would be wiser not to repeat the season 1 big bad because even though Zoom and Reverse Flash are different, the two big bads are played by the same actor. So, in essence, it'd be a repeat and I think it would be in very bad taste to do that.

You do have a good point but I really hope Harry is not Zoom.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:


      Quote:

      Having not seen the episode as yet it does seem to raise a question as to whether Barry had lost his speed thanks to the Wells formua or had it just temprarily dampened.



    Quote:
    From my interpretation, I think Barry's speed probably got dampened temporarily. I saw no evidence to the contrary so we are left to assume.



    Quote:
    The episode takes place a week after Barry got beaten by Zoom, so during that time Barry was healing. By the events of the episode it was clear that Barry had healed completely and he was just mentally blocking his speed because he lost confidence in himself. That's how I looked at it.


You are probobly correct in that; reviewing some of the key scenes in the Zoom story I note that when the singularity opened over Earth-2 as Zoom was finishing with Jay we learn that Jay was sucked through the portal and that it was the passage through the portal that took his speed - not Zoom. So as you say with concerns to Barry I would apply to Jay as well... I think his speed is fine, but the trauma and fear mean its his subconcious and denial that is blocking its use. When you look at Jay's experiences they follow the same pattern as Barry's, a crushing defeat by the monstrous bogeyman that is Zoom, but in Barrys case his confidence was initially greater than Jays was as he had experience with The Reverse-Flash, his initial meetings with Reverse-Flash was very much the same experience Jay had with Zoom and would stand him in good stead. But clearly when they finally meet we and Barry are stunned to see that Zoom is on another level to Reverse-Flash. Without the pre-run of a Reverse-Flash Jay was always going to be put into a position where he would have to fight for his life against Zoom, though that it took 2 years for them to finally have aan all-or-nothing battle is an interesting point that either suggests Jay was running away as Wells accused him of, or that Jay was that good he was able to fight off his opponent repeatedly and survive. For quite a while.

Zoom could be anybody. When Jay described how hw was pulled through the singularity It was reminiscent of the way Eddie Thawne was pulled through on this end, I would be tempted to suggest Zoom is a revived Eddie, but the timings of his death and Zoom's appearance don't match. Still, I remain half convinced Eddie has somehow survived. Chiefly the way his exit was handled and the fact that if he survived somehow by his trip through the portal and was revived on the other side it would mean Eobard Thawne would be ressurected in the timestream and be due a return at some point in the future. It would also explain why the Presentday has not altered retroactively - he is destined to be ressurected, hence no paradox exists by his seeming wipe out last seasons end.

Ah, Theories! \(beer\)




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JesusFan

About Zoom

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Could Zoom be evil Barry from E2, or else evil dad from there?



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


This shows to us that Barry would get his speed from the Speed Force, as he connects to that Force, so the dampner should work better on say Superman that uses physics and strenght and density, and not on elike Barry!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


But why would ypu need to steal speed IF ine has a direct connection to the Speed Force, as assuming Zoom/Barry have?


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


That would make sense, as Eddie did nit fukkt died before getting sucjed in, so mayne he absorbed somehow that energy and became like a sentient force being then?



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Eddie is Eobards descendant, which makes him a very important character. I really did think the fact that they went to such trouble to show his body being sucked into the Singularity is a significant point and a clue to his and Eobards eventual return.
Zoom could be anybody, he is a very deliberately blank slate you are being left free to write your on theory upon, I do find it curious that Earth-2 and its particle Accelerator accident would produce two speedsters however, and Zoom is such an extraordinary prescence there is clearly much much more going on than just another victim of the Accelerator accident.
Wells made the point that Zoom Is, or was, human. The question as to how he therefore became this seemingly demonic force and aware of the Multiverse may or may not link into Barry learning of the Speedforce finally.




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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Could Zoom be evil Barry from E2, or else evil dad from there?


I don't think anything is off the table yet.



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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    That would make sense, as Eddie did nit fukkt died before getting sucjed in, so mayne he absorbed somehow that energy and became like a sentient force being then?


JesusFan we love you but just try to form letters into actual words. Sometimes your posts aren't easy to decipher.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

    Eddie is Eobards descendant, which makes him a very important character. I really did think the fact that they went to such trouble to show his body being sucked into the Singularity is a significant point and a clue to his and Eobards eventual return.
    Zoom could be anybody, he is a very deliberately blank slate you are being left free to write your on theory upon, I do find it curious that Earth-2 and its particle Accelerator accident would produce two speedsters however, and Zoom is such an extraordinary prescence there is clearly much much more going on than just another victim of the Accelerator accident.
    Wells made the point that Zoom Is, or was, human. The question as to how he therefore became this seemingly demonic force and aware of the Multiverse may or may not link into Barry learning of the Speedforce finally.




Zoom's going to be Earth-2 Iris. She got lied to one time too many and went crazy pants.



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Maybe when Eddie was sucked into that hole, he somehow became part of the energies going on there, and just needed Wells to exploit him and have his full powers get 'turned on?"

Still think that this wells is up to something, and that there is still that Crisis event to deal with coming...

maybe Zoom is barry from E2 fully powered up in speed force, and will be the Anti Moniter so to speak of the coming crisis?



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



There was an awful lot in this episode, all good! Thanks to John Shipps performance Henry Allen is such a charismatic character It is a shame a more permanent space can't be found for him, meanwhile Harrison Wells continues to intrigue and grow on us - the eerie mimicry of Eobard Thawne's death threat to Cisco was bound to be as uncomfortable for Cisco as it was for us out here watching on, up until now Wells has not been able to convince that he is trustworthy, thanks to his bravery and genorosity this episode that has all begun to change. And yet.... \(fear\)
Barry's emotional trauma is perfectly understandable throughout events here, part shame over his inability to match Zoom and prevent his own humiliation in front of his city, and part self-doubt over whether he is really any good at this to begin with. These have been aspects of his character since episode 1, but thanks to the support of his friends and the team he is in an excellent place to be able to deal with the violent events of the last few days and begin looking forward once again. Indeed looking forward is very much the theme of this story - with Grodd struggling to find a meaning to his existence and finally moving on, albeit forcibly, to something perhaps better. Henry determined to get out in the world again and find his way forward. Harrison Wells caught in a difficult decision and concluding for the moment he is best staying here and working with these new and worthy allies to fight Zoom... yes, a lot is progressed here, even Cisco's love life looks viable again! Well, for a little while.

I loved the brief shot at the three-quarter mark as while monitoring CTV Grodd rounds the building and we see the timelapsed image, very effective and surreal moment. It does seem to be hinted that the 52 portals in Central City connect to different universe, not just Earth-2, I wonder if that is reading too much into it...?




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