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Author
Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Finally, we get the answers are looking for about Zoom. While not every mystery is revealed in this episode, there are plenty of answers given. But before we get to that, we have Barry testing the tachyon enhancer to his chest which enhances his speed. The test is a huge success because Barry annihilates his old speed record. Nothing is mentioned about Barry’s adventures on Supergirl’s Earth but that was to be expected.

The more I think about it, the more I don’t like Zoom. Why? Because he is essentially the Reverse Flash 2.0. Let’s see:

1. Dr. Wells acted as a mentor and so did “Jay”.
2. Dr. Wells was pretending to be someone he is not and so did “Jay”.
3. Dr. Wells lied about who he was and so did “Jay”.
4. Dr. Wells trained Barry to get faster and so did “Jay”.

So, Zoom is nothing more than a Reverse Flash rip off and it’s pretty much repeating the same villain from last season. I don’t know about you dear reader, but that is all kinds of LAZY writing right there not to mention lacking the ability to come up with something more original. I really hope season 3 will be better than this season. True, some awesome stuff happened but this season has been a repeat of season 1, the only difference is season 2 was put through the blender to make it look more original. But the same basic theme and overall story along with Reverse Flash 2.0 was there.

I kept expecting Team Flash to pull off a double cross. A way to keep Barry's speed and defeat Zoom, at least temporarily. That is how this episode SHOULD have ended. I thought for sure Barry would have Cisco open a breach and Barry speed punches Zoom into Earth-2. But Fake Wally HAD to be kidnapped without Barry even TRYING to have Cisco open a breach and get a rescue going! IDIOT! And then Caitlin gets kidnapped. Now Team Flash have two people to rescue.

All in all, just an average episode that left me feeling pretty disappointed. Zoom is Reverse Flash 2.0 and this whole season just seems like a re-do of season 1 with plenty of sprinkles of original ideas.

5 out of 10 stars.

NOTE: Sorry for the short review. I have not been feeling well this week so I didn’t feel up to writing more on this episode.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

1. I really don’t like Hunter Zolomon’s origin in this episode since it’s a far cry from his comic book roots. But since this is Earth-2 Hunter Zolomon, anything can happen in alternate Earths. So for once, I’ll let this alteration of the character’s history slide.

2. Barry puts the tachyon enhancer on his chest, the same one he wore in the Supergirl episode. Finally, we have the connection I have been wanting to see.

3. So, Cisco can open breaches to other Earth’s? Wow. If I could do that, I’d certainly do it with gusto since it would be so awesome to do!

4. I’m on Harry’s side. Since we know Zoom is dying, then Barry has no need to go to Earth-2. Eventually, Zoom would die and it’s game over, it’s as simple as that. But nooooo, Barry needs to do things the hard way.

5. I think it’s becoming very clear that Zoom cannot go to Earth-Prime without a portal. \:\)

6. Careful Barry, your getting a little cocky being faster than Zoom.

7. So, I was wrong about the clone thing. The double Jay we saw “die” was a time remnant, a past version of Hunter Zolomon.

8. I think there is more to Zoom than we think. I mean, how does he change his voice and make his eyes go pitch black? And what is with this, “You can’t stop the darkness?” Hmm.

9. Now more than ever the man in the Iron Mask had BETTER BE JAY GARRICK! Jay is a hero not a villain.

BLOOPERS/MISTAKES:

1. Wait a minute! WAIT A MINUTE! If Barry put on that device on his chest and just ran fast then WHY on Earth did he need Supergirl to give him a boost?! Barry could have done it himself!

2. Wait a minute! If Zoom murdered his past self, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ZOOM EVEN EXISTS?! Grrrr. These writers really, REALLY, need to write down some time travel rules and stick with them instead of doing whatever they freakin' want.

3. Barry's an idiot for not pulling off a double cross and so is Zoom for leaving Barry alive.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450



    Quote:

    Finally, we get the answers are looking for about Zoom. While not every mystery is revealed in this episode, there are plenty of answers given. But before we get to that, we have Barry testing the tachyon enhancer to his chest which enhances his speed. The test is a huge success because Barry annihilates his old speed record. Nothing is mentioned about Barry’s adventures on Supergirl’s Earth but that was to be expected.



    Quote:
    The more I think about it, the more I don’t like Zoom. Why? Because he is essentially the Reverse Flash 2.0. Let’s see:



    Quote:
    1. Dr. Wells acted as a mentor and so did “Jay”.
    2. Dr. Wells was pretending to be someone he is not and so did “Jay”.
    3. Dr. Wells lied about who he was and so did “Jay”.
    4. Dr. Wells trained Barry to get faster and so did “Jay”.



    Quote:
    So, Zoom is nothing more than a Reverse Flash rip off and it’s pretty much repeating the same villain from last season. I don’t know about you dear reader, but that is all kinds of LAZY writing right there not to mention lacking the ability to come up with something more original. I really hope season 3 will be better than this season. True, some awesome stuff happened but this season has been a repeat of season 1, the only difference is season 2 was put through the blender to make it look more original. But the same basic theme and overall story along with Reverse Flash 2.0 was there.



    Quote:
    I kept expecting Team Flash to pull off a double cross. A way to keep Barry's speed and defeat Zoom, at least temporarily. That is how this episode SHOULD have ended. I thought for sure Barry would have Cisco open a breach and Barry speed punches Zoom into Earth-2. But Fake Wally HAD to be kidnapped without Barry even TRYING to have Cisco open a breach and get a rescue going! IDIOT! And then Caitlin gets kidnapped. Now Team Flash have two people to rescue.



    Quote:
    All in all, just an average episode that left me feeling pretty disappointed. Zoom is Reverse Flash 2.0 and this whole season just seems like a re-do of season 1 with plenty of sprinkles of original ideas.



    Quote:
    5 out of 10 stars.



    Quote:
    NOTE: Sorry for the short review. I have not been feeling well this week so I didn’t feel up to writing more on this episode.



    Quote:
    ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:



    Quote:
    1. I really don’t like Hunter Zolomon’s origin in this episode since it’s a far cry from his comic book roots. But since this is Earth-2 Hunter Zolomon, anything can happen in alternate Earths. So for once, I’ll let this alteration of the character’s history slide.



    Quote:
    2. Barry puts the tachyon enhancer on his chest, the same one he wore in the Supergirl episode. Finally, we have the connection I have been wanting to see.



    Quote:
    3. So, Cisco can open breaches to other Earth’s? Wow. If I could do that, I’d certainly do it with gusto since it would be so awesome to do!



    Quote:
    4. I’m on Harry’s side. Since we know Zoom is dying, then Barry has no need to go to Earth-2. Eventually, Zoom would die and it’s game over, it’s as simple as that. But nooooo, Barry needs to do things the hard way.



    Quote:
    5. I think it’s becoming very clear that Zoom cannot go to Earth-Prime without a portal. \:\)



    Quote:
    6. Careful Barry, your getting a little cocky being faster than Zoom.



    Quote:
    7. So, I was wrong about the clone thing. The double Jay we saw “die” was a time remnant, a past version of Hunter Zolomon.



    Quote:
    8. I think there is more to Zoom than we think. I mean, how does he change his voice and make his eyes go pitch black? And what is with this, “You can’t stop the darkness?” Hmm.



    Quote:
    9. Now more than ever the man in the Iron Mask had BETTER BE JAY GARRICK! Jay is a hero not a villain.



    Quote:
    BLOOPERS/MISTAKES:



    Quote:
    1. Wait a minute! WAIT A MINUTE! If Barry put on that device on his chest and just ran fast then WHY on Earth did he need Supergirl to give him a boost?! Barry could have done it himself!



    Quote:
    2. Wait a minute! If Zoom murdered his past self, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ZOOM EVEN EXISTS?! Grrrr. These writers really, REALLY, need to write down some time travel rules and stick with them instead of doing whatever they freakin' want.



    Quote:
    3. Barry's an idiot for not pulling off a double cross and so is Zoom for leaving Barry alive.


Yes to everything you mentioned.

I think this episode was also disappointing because we had the break in between episodes so we had longer to wait for it and that only makes the weaknesses stand out more.

And yeah about Supergirl, when Barry did that test, why didn't he say something like "You guys wouldn't believe what just happened to me. I'll tell you about it later." That's all you needed.

PPP







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 7
MajinVegeta




Great Points!

#4 I never thought of that. Kinda like how Eddie should have gotten a vasectomy last season instead of shooting himself.

#5 I wondered how Zoom got back to his lair

#9 What if it's just plain old Earth 1 Henry, kidnapped as an ace in the hole?

My other thoughts:
Where did they get pictures of Zoom's parents for the cardboard cut-outs? When Joe and Iris ask to help did they get sent to Kinko's?

Did Barry have his speed during the graveyard scene on Arrow?

Also why did Zoom care about Caitlin, if it was his other temporal self that she hooked up with?



Posted with Google Chrome 49.0.2623.112 on Windows 7
Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

    Finally, we get the answers are looking for about Zoom. While not every mystery is revealed in this episode, there are plenty of answers given. But before we get to that, we have Barry testing the tachyon enhancer to his chest which enhances his speed. The test is a huge success because Barry annihilates his old speed record. Nothing is mentioned about Barry’s adventures on Supergirl’s Earth but that was to be expected.



    Quote:
    The more I think about it, the more I don’t like Zoom. Why? Because he is essentially the Reverse Flash 2.0. Let’s see:



    Quote:
    1. Dr. Wells acted as a mentor and so did “Jay”.
    2. Dr. Wells was pretending to be someone he is not and so did “Jay”.
    3. Dr. Wells lied about who he was and so did “Jay”.
    4. Dr. Wells trained Barry to get faster and so did “Jay”.


The whole father killing his mother bit was also a little too on the nose.



    Quote:
    So, Zoom is nothing more than a Reverse Flash rip off and it’s pretty much repeating the same villain from last season. I don’t know about you dear reader, but that is all kinds of LAZY writing right there not to mention lacking the ability to come up with something more original. I really hope season 3 will be better than this season. True, some awesome stuff happened but this season has been a repeat of season 1, the only difference is season 2 was put through the blender to make it look more original. But the same basic theme and overall story along with Reverse Flash 2.0 was there.


Yeah in all honesty it does seem like the exact same thing.

Barry gets an evil mentor and gets played...again.

If Joe turns evil next year Barry's going to run out of father figures. Personally I think Henry's off doing coke in vegas and banging hookers. He didn't seem very interested in dad time.



    Quote:
    I kept expecting Team Flash to pull off a double cross. A way to keep Barry's speed and defeat Zoom, at least temporarily. That is how this episode SHOULD have ended. I thought for sure Barry would have Cisco open a breach and Barry speed punches Zoom into Earth-2. But Fake Wally HAD to be kidnapped without Barry even TRYING to have Cisco open a breach and get a rescue going! IDIOT! And then Caitlin gets kidnapped. Now Team Flash have two people to rescue.


They didn't get Wally back? I may have blinked.



    Quote:
    All in all, just an average episode that left me feeling pretty disappointed. Zoom is Reverse Flash 2.0 and this whole season just seems like a re-do of season 1 with plenty of sprinkles of original ideas.


Maybe next year they could avoid the formula of "mystery villain + mysterious father figure - good decision making = passable plot"


    Quote:
    5 out of 10 stars.



    Quote:
    NOTE: Sorry for the short review. I have not been feeling well this week so I didn’t feel up to writing more on this episode.



    Quote:
    ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:



    Quote:
    1. I really don’t like Hunter Zolomon’s origin in this episode since it’s a far cry from his comic book roots. But since this is Earth-2 Hunter Zolomon, anything can happen in alternate Earths. So for once, I’ll let this alteration of the character’s history slide.


Well it's just too close to what TV Barry's origin already is.

Hunter's father killed his mother. Everyone thought Barry's father killed his mother. That would be like Peter Parker finding out Norman Osborn's uncle got killed by a mugger. I mean do the arch enemies need to have mirrored origins to the heroes?



    Quote:
    2. Barry puts the tachyon enhancer on his chest, the same one he wore in the Supergirl episode. Finally, we have the connection I have been wanting to see.


I was a little disappointed there is no formula or energy ray or something giving him the speed boost. He's relying on tech to get that fast...he's not actually tapping into the speed force via his actual skills or powers.


    Quote:
    3. So, Cisco can open breaches to other Earth’s? Wow. If I could do that, I’d certainly do it with gusto since it would be so awesome to do!


He's learning. So I guess next season will be Cisco sending everyone to wacky alternate worlds.

I want them to follow Gorilla Grodd to a JLApes world.


    Quote:
    4. I’m on Harry’s side. Since we know Zoom is dying, then Barry has no need to go to Earth-2. Eventually, Zoom would die and it’s game over, it’s as simple as that. But nooooo, Barry needs to do things the hard way.


I tend to agree with Harrison on everything. Barry's decision making skills are horrible.


    Quote:
    5. I think it’s becoming very clear that Zoom cannot go to Earth-Prime without a portal. \:\)



    Quote:
    6. Careful Barry, your getting a little cocky being faster than Zoom.



    Quote:
    7. So, I was wrong about the clone thing. The double Jay we saw “die” was a time remnant, a past version of Hunter Zolomon.


How do you talk a time remnant into killing themselves? I mean ok it serves your master plan but what do they get out of it...they're dead.


    Quote:
    8. I think there is more to Zoom than we think. I mean, how does he change his voice and make his eyes go pitch black? And what is with this, “You can’t stop the darkness?” Hmm.


He's succumbed to the dark side of the for...er...speed force.


    Quote:
    9. Now more than ever the man in the Iron Mask had BETTER BE JAY GARRICK! Jay is a hero not a villain.


Not saying you're wrong (because let's be honest this whole plot made zero sense anyways...time remnant agrees to suicide my ass) but to me the way Zoom was talking there is no Jay on Earth-1 or 2. On both of those worlds there's a Hunter Zolomon (they really need to talk to that Earth-1 Hunter). So if there is a Jay Garrick he's from another Earth and then as far as I can tell there would be no point in putting him into the plot just yet.

I'm just thinking Barry's going to meet a heroic Jay next season from Earth-3.

So with what we learned this episode I think the list of suspects in the iron mask narrows to:

1. Eddie Thawne (ugh)
2. Ronnie Raymond
3. Henry Allen

I don't want Eddie back, I think Henry would have worked if they had built up to that but they haven't...I could probably deal with it being Ronnie. Caitlin deserves something.

    Quote:
    BLOOPERS/MISTAKES:



    Quote:
    1. Wait a minute! WAIT A MINUTE! If Barry put on that device on his chest and just ran fast then WHY on Earth did he need Supergirl to give him a boost?! Barry could have done it himself!



    Quote:
    2. Wait a minute! If Zoom murdered his past self, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ZOOM EVEN EXISTS?! Grrrr. These writers really, REALLY, need to write down some time travel rules and stick with them instead of doing whatever they freakin' want.



    Quote:
    3. Barry's an idiot for not pulling off a double cross and so is Zoom for leaving Barry alive.





Posted with Mozilla Firefox 44.0.3 on Windows 7
Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Great Points!



    Quote:
    #4 I never thought of that. Kinda like how Eddie should have gotten a vasectomy last season instead of shooting himself.





    Quote:
    #5 I wondered how Zoom got back to his lair



    Quote:
    #9 What if it's just plain old Earth 1 Henry, kidnapped as an ace in the hole?


That would be lame. If we had seen Henry more this season they could have built up to that. But it would suck to reveal the guy who was replaced by the evil doppelganger got replaced during the six or so months Barry didn't have contact with him.


    Quote:
    My other thoughts:
    Where did they get pictures of Zoom's parents for the cardboard cut-outs? When Joe and Iris ask to help did they get sent to Kinko's?


On Earth-1 Jay's parents are stock models.


    Quote:
    Did Barry have his speed during the graveyard scene on Arrow?



    Quote:
    Also why did Zoom care about Caitlin, if it was his other temporal self that she hooked up with?


They didn't go into it but it sounds like Zoom was playing Jay most of the time. Like the part where he mentions that he was trying to throw Caitlin off the trail by showing her Hunter-1. Zoom did that not the duplicate from what it sounds like.

I think the duplicate only showed up when Zoom had a need for Jay and Zoom to be seen in the same place at the same time.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 44.0.3 on Windows 7
Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450



    Quote:
    That would be lame. If we had seen Henry more this season they could have built up to that. But it would suck to reveal the guy who was replaced by the evil doppelganger got replaced during the six or so months Barry didn't have contact with him.


Yeah, he hasn't been interested in being a Dad since he got out of jail.

PPP







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 7
Iron Man Unit 007





Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 7
Iron Man Unit 007




About Barry going to Supergirl earth, he portaled away and back in an instant of time on his Earth, despite the hours he spent on her Earth.

When he got to Star Labs he did look astonished as he said "I'm back" but didn't elaborate so the others thought he demolished his speed records.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 7
Iron Man Unit 007




In Supergirl, Barry needed the boost to reopen the portal and get home.

In this week's episode, Barry was only gone for a split second from his Earth, despite spending hours on Supergirl's Earth.

It is possible that Supergirl's Earth has a few different laws of physics and the tachyon device wasn't working on that Earth, and didn't resume function until he came back.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 45.0 on Windows 7
JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


How would Barry reconnect to the SpeedForce now then, as Zoom has all of his power now?

And Zoom wanted his power in order to just stay alive? Why would he not have used vibe to jump to other earths that habe no metas, or even kara world or something?


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