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Author
Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



I was right, it was Julian all along.

Your thoughts?





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Iron Man Unit 007

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,372


For me it is a non surprise.

Flashpoint and resetting things altered somethings, but to insert a new character into things that hates Barry and metahumans and then a mysterious masked menace.....yeah, not surprised.




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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

    I was right, it was Julian all along.



    Quote:
    Your thoughts?


1. I thought this was a great episode...this is the most Caitlin has ever had to do in an episode. She's been in wallflower mode for like 2 seasons.

2. I HATE that Julian is Dr. Alchemy. Because I think he's such a well needed character as the guy who gives Barry hell for all the crap he's pulled. This revelation totally undercuts him even though everything he complains about is right on the money.

3. While I didn't agree with Julian about Killer Frost on every thing else I agree with him. Barry's horrible and absolutely should not be allowed to work for the police. Being the Flash AND handling the evidence potentially compromises hundreds of the CCPD's cases. Plus as the Flash he just screws up the lives of everyone around him. And Julian's right....Barry does have a skewed moral compass.

4. Iris's speech...while that was a great supportive girlfriend speech...I think she's just enabling Barry's bad behavior. This s**t really is Barry's fault. Let him own it for a change. Sara Diggle's still been erased and Dante's still dead. He shouldn't be let off the hook until those 2 things are undone.





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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    For me it is a non surprise.



    Quote:
    Flashpoint and resetting things altered somethings, but to insert a new character into things that hates Barry and metahumans and then a mysterious masked menace.....yeah, not surprised.


I wasn't surprised...but I was hoping that Julian wasn't Dr. Alchemy. Because he's a great character in his own right as the annoyed work colleague who can't stand Barry.

I've been in Julian's shoes and had co-workers who get away with everything who coast by on their charm while I do all the work. I feel Julian's pain. I'm bummed that they've made him a bad guy...because I've totally been rooting for him.


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CajunSpeedster


Member Since: Wed Jan 27, 2016


I thought this was a good episode. Everyone hammering Barry should make him heed Garrick's advice re "You can't fix everything you just have to live with the consequences of your (original) choices." I hope Barry never says "I can fix this" again. I agree with Reverend Meteor that Iris is just enabling Barry's reckless behavior. She should support him but also encourage him to look further into the consequences of his actions BEFORE he takes them. What did Uncle ???? tell Peter Parker? "With great power comes great responsibility."

I liked the focus on Caitlain this episode. It's about time we got some development in her character. She can be so much more of a player in this series and I hope this is the beginning of her role being expanded.

Wally getting his powers? Meh . . .


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



Hmm, it was always fairly obvious. Julian wasn't going to be just some Flashpoint anomaly who came from nowhere as the timeline reset itself, his rather extreme personality was in itself a clue that something was not well with him. Him being Doctor Alchemy is a logical reveal and is another example tsht shows how closely the creative team pore over The Flash's comicbook history for their guide and inspiration...










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Panthera






    Quote:
    1. I thought this was a great episode...this is the most Caitlin has ever had to do in an episode. She's been in wallflower mode for like 2 seasons.


I just rewatched Sky High and it was funny seeing Danielle as the wallflower again.....until she unleashed her powers again.


    Quote:
    2. I HATE that Julian is Dr. Alchemy. Because I think he's such a well needed character as the guy who gives Barry hell for all the crap he's pulled. This revelation totally undercuts him even though everything he complains about is right on the money.


He'll probably have some split personality/ Savitar is threatening him situation; where he really isn't evil...or some excuse for his behavior. We'll get both a good and bad Julian.


    Quote:
    3. While I didn't agree with Julian about Killer Frost on every thing else I agree with him. Barry's horrible and absolutely should not be allowed to work for the police. Being the Flash AND handling the evidence potentially compromises hundreds of the CCPD's cases.


Umm, doesn't Barry work for the police in the comics? This is one of those suspend belief situations. ANY crook caught by a vigilante should be released. Cases would never stand in a trial.


    Quote:
    Plus as the Flash he just screws up the lives of everyone around him. And Julian's right....Barry does have a skewed moral compass.


Meh, what DC hero doesn't? Surely since he has only been a meta for 3yrs he shouldn't be perfect. He has powers, he wanted to erase the most horrible thing that had happened in his life. I don't know many 'normal' people that haven't felt the same thing. Now, add powers....


    Quote:
    4. Iris's speech...while that was a great supportive girlfriend speech...I think she's just enabling Barry's bad behavior. This s**t really is Barry's fault. Let him own it for a change. Sara Diggle's still been erased and Dante's still dead. He shouldn't be let off the hook until those 2 things are undone.


And when/if he tries to go 'fix the timeline' again she should go after him. But right now, what good will it do to constantly berate him? His friends ( rightly so) are doing that well enough. I think he is owning it. He's trying to deal with that trauma and the new trauma he's inflicted on his friends. However, his family/city still needs the Flash. You want him trying to fight villains with more psychological issues...that's Batman's schtick.

Dante, meh. Baby Sarah, that's some messed up *&^. However, how do you propose it be undone? Seems nobody wants Barry to 'try and fix' things again by altering the timeline. He might make it better; probably make it worse.

I think Diggle and Lyla are just going to have to make another baby.

And I really think Barry needs to move out of Cisco's apartment ASAP!!




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Panthera




Was anyone surprised it was Julian? Why get a star like Tom Felton to play a small role?

Great Episode:

- Does Julian know that Barry is the Flash? I know he dislikes Barry, but it's verging on animosity. He knows Caitlin was Barry's friend; I think he knows the Flash saved her? Meh, probably stretching. But what exactly does Julian remember/know from Flashpoint? What info has the Philosopher's Stone given him? hmmmm

- Caitlin gets some action. I love that she is a scientist (where you actually get to see her brain work and not just let it be said she's a scientist); but I also love she can kick some butt now too. Ever since she clocked Cisco when possessed by Grodd, i've wanted her to have some real action scenes.

- Joe being wrong. Finally. Dad/perfect Joe was getting to be too much. Yeah it's cute when he doesn't understand the science and just rolls with it. This time he didn't stay in his lane and messed up his son. Hmmm, is Barry influencing Joe now?

- HR the muse. I like how he's always on point. No, he doesn't have the science, but he does have some great deductive reasoning. Was he a drummer on his world? What's with always having a stick in his hand. Needs to cut down on the caffeine. Or maybe he doesn't. lol

-Cisco. Poor guy. I don't know what kinda of therapy this guy is going to need. I didn't follow him in the comics, what was his relationship like with his brother? Dante could have died at any point. Flashpoint just could have made it happen sooner rather than later. Meh.

- Wally. Interesting notion about him running faster than Barry did in the beginning of his career. I think that mirrors the comics. Now when Barry deals with the Crisis, Wally will take over for him. lol

-Iris. Love how supportive she is. I just don't want her character development sacrificed for Caitlin's. For some reason writers don't have a problem writing for multiple male characters, but sometimes they really have issues with more than one woman.


Case in point Arrow: the Laurel character was sacrificed for the Felicity character. Don't give me boo about acting ability. Katy did what she could with what she had. Funny how after her death, writing for the Laurel character dramatically improved. People on other boards are talking about the chemistry between Danielle and Grant, much like they talked about Stephen and what's her name (really, I had it, but it slipped my mind). Yes, but let's not have another freak up like Ollicity. Danielle/Caitlin has her strengths, Candace/Iris has hers. Let's see both.

I'm really enjoying this season so far. Is it a masterpiece, no. Maybe it has to do with not following the comics ( outside of when Wally was the Flash), maybe it just gives me an opportunity to vegge.


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Iron Man Unit 007

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,372


I know what you mean about coworkers.

However it seems that he was inserted into the police dept to get Barry ousted.

Step one to wrecking Barry's life complete.

Also, I wonder if they will shift the blame from Barry to Savitar for the loss of Cisco's brother?

Also Iris makes a valid point, was it REALLY Flashpoint that cost Cisco his brother, or was he going to die anyway?

Also Barry COULD try to warp back in time, grab Cisco's brother before he is killed and take him back to the present. Everyone should still think him dead, but now he is there, his death is bypassed and Cisco has his brother back.




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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Was anyone surprised it was Julian? Why get a star like Tom Felton to play a small role?


I wasn't surprised at all. I'm beginning to understand the formula the showrunners are using. Always suspect the new guy on the show.


    Quote:
    Great Episode:



    Quote:
    - Does Julian know that Barry is the Flash? I know he dislikes Barry, but it's verging on animosity. He knows Caitlin was Barry's friend; I think he knows the Flash saved her? Meh, probably stretching. But what exactly does Julian remember/know from Flashpoint? What info has the Philosopher's Stone given him? hmmmm


Doubtful since there has been no attack on Barry yet. But who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe Julian hates Barry BECAUSE he knows Barry is the Flash


    Quote:
    - Caitlin gets some action. I love that she is a scientist (where you actually get to see her brain work and not just let it be said she's a scientist); but I also love she can kick some butt now too. Ever since she clocked Cisco when possessed by Grodd, i've wanted her to have some real action scenes.


Now that she has powers, expect more of the same. \:\)


    Quote:
    - Joe being wrong. Finally. Dad/perfect Joe was getting to be too much. Yeah it's cute when he doesn't understand the science and just rolls with it. This time he didn't stay in his lane and messed up his son. Hmmm, is Barry influencing Joe now?


Gotta love Joe.


    Quote:
    - HR the muse. I like how he's always on point. No, he doesn't have the science, but he does have some great deductive reasoning. Was he a drummer on his world? What's with always having a stick in his hand. Needs to cut down on the caffeine. Or maybe he doesn't. lol


Glad you seem to like him, I don't. HR just seems like a colossal waste of space by not being a scientist.


    Quote:
    -Cisco. Poor guy. I don't know what kinda of therapy this guy is going to need. I didn't follow him in the comics, what was his relationship like with his brother? Dante could have died at any point. Flashpoint just could have made it happen sooner rather than later. Meh.


Cisco needs to get over it and realize that Barry can't do anything to save his brother even though Barry would if he could.


    Quote:
    - Wally. Interesting notion about him running faster than Barry did in the beginning of his career. I think that mirrors the comics. Now when Barry deals with the Crisis, Wally will take over for him. lol


He'll have to wait for 7 years for that. In the meantime, I'm crossing my fingers there will be no Fake Wally in Flash season 4. The show doesn't need him or another speedster.


    Quote:
    -Iris. Love how supportive she is. I just don't want her character development sacrificed for Caitlin's. For some reason writers don't have a problem writing for multiple male characters, but sometimes they really have issues with more than one woman.


Like, for example, Iris didn't do much in this episode other than offer support.


    Quote:

    Case in point Arrow: the Laurel character was sacrificed for the Felicity character. Don't give me boo about acting ability. Katy did what she could with what she had. Funny how after her death, writing for the Laurel character dramatically improved. People on other boards are talking about the chemistry between Danielle and Grant, much like they talked about Stephen and what's her name (really, I had it, but it slipped my mind). Yes, but let's not have another freak up like Ollicity. Danielle/Caitlin has her strengths, Candace/Iris has hers. Let's see both.


Agreed, let's see both. And no more "Olicity's". That's the last thing the Flash needs.


    Quote:
    I'm really enjoying this season so far. Is it a masterpiece, no. Maybe it has to do with not following the comics ( outside of when Wally was the Flash), maybe it just gives me an opportunity to vegge.


Been a pretty average season for me.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


That was good, as he is really anti meta, but just happens to be the henchman to a prime one himself!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Just hope that this mean that Savitor is really Iris former financee coming back as that form, as he did nebtion that Alchemy was to usher in "His return"


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