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Attok12




The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....

....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....

That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@

Someone please tell me what the appeal of this character is. I'm begging you. The Rhino shows up EVERY month, in at least one or two titles. Over and over again. The MU super-heroes are dopes. Why do they put the Rhino in jail when they know he will break out the next day, only to get caught again, put in jail again and then break....get the picture?

The Rhino needs to die. He needs to die a lot. And then when he's dead, he needs to die again. A lot.

Even Mephisto wouldn't want him in his realm!

End of "I hate the %$%^&&** Rhino rant.

Have a nice day. \:\-\)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Pav




Maybe the writers just like using him. He's got an interesting personality when written well - the stories that portray him as a pretty intelligent guy anyway. That Flowers for Rhino story sounded pretty good, although admittedly I haven't read it.

Maybe the writers just like the comical value of a big guy trying to smash stuff by ramming headfirst, as if that's the best course of action. It's a pretty good visual.

Maybe, just maybe, the writers who post here write him just to spite you. Considering the Rhino (or Mr. Hyde, or the Wrecking Crew) can't appear without you causing a ruckus (did I just say "ruckus?"), I wouldn't put it past some of them.

In all honestly, I understand where you're coming from. There are SO MANY obscure characters, both hero and villain, that I would love to see instead of The Wrecker or Hydra. But whatever man, we don't always get what we want. And I'd much rather read about the Rhino than read about how much you hate him. We all know.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Dr. Shallot




And don't forget the awesome Captain Ultra(this must be before his new all yellow suit in Iron Man that you mentioned).

And Photon/Pulsar too, or whatever she's called these days.

Slott giveth and then he taketh away.

The Rhino is pretty generic these days. Maybe his usage is an inside joke amongst Marvel writers?






Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Attok12




> Maybe, just maybe, the writers who post here write him just to spite you. Considering the Rhino (or Mr. Hyde, or the Wrecking Crew) can't appear without you causing a ruckus (did I just say "ruckus?"), I wouldn't put it past some of them.

True. Dan Slott does know I don't like his work....

Gotta give him props where it's due, though....in the preview of the issue, a bystander (a kid) said something to the effect "Hasn't the Rhino been arrested five times already this week?" (something like that) I will admit I found that line mildly amusing.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Attok12




> And don't forget the awesome Captain Ultra(this must be before his new all yellow suit in Iron Man that you mentioned).

I saw Captain Ultra and agree....given his new uniform, this issue of She-Hulk likely takes place prior to the Iron Man issue.

And I saw Wanda. You know, if a SCARLET WITCH ongoing series came out and Dan Slott wrote it, I wouldn't get it. But, to be fair, I wouldn't get a SCARLET WITCH series written by Peter David, JMS, and a few other writers, too.

Not that I need to worry about this. She'll likely never get her own ongoing series. \:'\(


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Dan Slott




> The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....
>
> ....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....

Yeah. Keep tellin' yourself that.... \:\)

> That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@

Okay, this is where you take the prize, sir. Read the darn thing first. The FACT that it's getting ridiculous is EXACTLY what that scene is about.

It is a scene ABOUT that. It ADDRESSES that. If you're gonna b*tch and moan about the preview pages, at least READ the darn thing first. Seriously. The letters? That form the words? That inside all of those bubbles? They're there for a reason.

Oh, and BTW, since you wrote LITERALLY over THREE DOZEN posts about how I was misusing the Bengal over in the Initiative-- when I wrote to you REPEATEDLY that there was a reason. That I'd talked it over with Bengal's creator, Fabian Nicieza, when we FIRST decided to use him over in the Initiative-- and that HE was cool with it. Now that we've finally spelled it out in A:TI #5, can we FINALLY lay THAT to rest? Geez!


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
AJ




> > The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....
> >
> > ....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....
>
> Yeah. Keep tellin' yourself that.... \:\)
>
> > That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@
>
> Okay, this is where you take the prize, sir. Read the darn thing first. The FACT that it's getting ridiculous is EXACTLY what that scene is about.
>
> It is a scene ABOUT that. It ADDRESSES that. If you're gonna b*tch and moan about the preview pages, at least READ the darn thing first. Seriously. The letters? That form the words? That inside all of those bubbles? They're there for a reason.
>
> Oh, and BTW, since you wrote LITERALLY over THREE DOZEN posts about how I was misusing the Bengal over in the Initiative-- when I wrote to you REPEATEDLY that there was a reason. That I'd talked it over with Bengal's creator, Fabian Nicieza, when we FIRST decided to use him over in the Initiative-- and that HE was cool with it. Now that we've finally spelled it out in A:TI #5, can we FINALLY lay THAT to rest? Geez!

AJ

Proud Mod of the Sentry Message Board! Please come and check us out at: http://members4.boardhost.com/SiParadise/


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Todd Arliss




> > The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....
> >
> > ....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....
>
> Yeah. Keep tellin' yourself that.... \:\)
>
> > That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@
>
> Okay, this is where you take the prize, sir. Read the darn thing first. The FACT that it's getting ridiculous is EXACTLY what that scene is about.
>
> It is a scene ABOUT that. It ADDRESSES that. If you're gonna b*tch and moan about the preview pages, at least READ the darn thing first. Seriously. The letters? That form the words? That inside all of those bubbles? They're there for a reason.
>
> Oh, and BTW, since you wrote LITERALLY over THREE DOZEN posts about how I was misusing the Bengal over in the Initiative-- when I wrote to you REPEATEDLY that there was a reason. That I'd talked it over with Bengal's creator, Fabian Nicieza, when we FIRST decided to use him over in the Initiative-- and that HE was cool with it. Now that we've finally spelled it out in A:TI #5, can we FINALLY lay THAT to rest? Geez!


Dan,any chance of a new GLI mini-series?

If you can do such a thing,PLEASE have Captain Ultra,Frog-Man,Madcap and Mecano-Marauder all be considered for membership. As for villains,how about Brain-Drain or Captain Barracuda? Neither of these guys have been seen in years!

I'm sad to see you leave SHE-HULK,but I hope your Spidey run is good to great (please Dan,NO Rhino for the first ten issues! How about using the long-unused Styx & Stone instead?). Please,KEEP on writing Marvel comics.

'Nuff said!


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Attok12




Nowhere in the original thread did I insult you and your work at all. I even went out of my way to say that the intent of the post wasn't about your writing. IT WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO. It just so happened that your new SHE-HULK issue was where he showed up again. He could have showed up in BIRDS OF PREY #109, and I would have still complained about the Rhino.

In case you haven't noticed, I've been trying to stop with my negative comments about your work and the work of Peter David. So nowhere did I even mention anything about the Bengal, nor do I even give a flying flip about what goes on with him in your title. I don't even flip through the issue anymore at the store.

So, your reply is pretty damn insulting, an unwarrented attack in my opinion, one based on the past. I have moved on, so why haven't you?

The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Smithville Thunderbolt




> The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.

Dan's point was that your opinion about his writing has prevented you from seeing that he actually agrees with you about the constant use of the Rhino. You can disagree with that, but it seems to me that he read your post.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Attok12




> > The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.
>
> Dan's point was that your opinion about his writing has prevented you from seeing that he actually agrees with you about the constant use of the Rhino. You can disagree with that, but it seems to me that he read your post.

Well, he should have just agreed with me rather than rip into me about having not read the previews dialogue and about the Bengal (a character which wasn't even brought up in the original post). The post was not about the way Slott used the Rhino in his story. It wasn't even about Slott period. I was just expressing my constant irritation about the overuse of the Rhino.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Capt. Nas-Vell!




Attok12 is..."The Carrot"!

> Nowhere in the original thread did I insult you and your work at all. I even went out of my way to say that the intent of the post wasn't about your writing. IT WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO. It just so happened that your new SHE-HULK issue was where he showed up again. He could have showed up in BIRDS OF PREY #109, and I would have still complained about the Rhino.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, I've been trying to stop with my negative comments about your work and the work of Peter David. So nowhere did I even mention anything about the Bengal, nor do I even give a flying flip about what goes on with him in your title. I don't even flip through the issue anymore at the store.
>
> So, your reply is pretty damn insulting, an unwarrented attack in my opinion, one based on the past. I have moved on, so why haven't you?
>
> The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.
>
>

Captain Nas-Vell!


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Captain Action




> > > The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.
> >
> > Dan's point was that your opinion about his writing has prevented you from seeing that he actually agrees with you about the constant use of the Rhino. You can disagree with that, but it seems to me that he read your post.
>
> Well, he should have just agreed with me rather than rip into me about having not read the previews dialogue and about the Bengal (a character which wasn't even brought up in the original post). The post was not about the way Slott used the Rhino in his story. It wasn't even about Slott period. I was just expressing my constant irritation about the overuse of the Rhino.

Attok12,
At the top of this thread you wrote:

"The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....

....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....

That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

But if you bothered to actually read the preview, you'd see that Slott was actually making the same point that you were complaining about. So the question isn't "Why didn't Slott agree with you." The question is: "Why were you taking shots at She-Hulk #21 in the first place?" Given your past bias against Slott's work? Maybe you should stay clear of his work period. It really does look like you've got an axe to grind.

And about Bengal? You've gone on about Slott's use of Bengal a lot in the past. And Bengal's recent appearance in the Initiative showed that Slott was using the character correctly. So all your complaining about that amounted to nothing too.


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
heyseuss




> > The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....
> >
> > ....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....
>
> Yeah. Keep tellin' yourself that.... \:\)
>
> > That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@
>
> Okay, this is where you take the prize, sir. Read the darn thing first. The FACT that it's getting ridiculous is EXACTLY what that scene is about.
>
> It is a scene ABOUT that. It ADDRESSES that. If you're gonna b*tch and moan about the preview pages, at least READ the darn thing first. Seriously. The letters? That form the words? That inside all of those bubbles? They're there for a reason.
>
> Oh, and BTW, since you wrote LITERALLY over THREE DOZEN posts about how I was misusing the Bengal over in the Initiative-- when I wrote to you REPEATEDLY that there was a reason. That I'd talked it over with Bengal's creator, Fabian Nicieza, when we FIRST decided to use him over in the Initiative-- and that HE was cool with it. Now that we've finally spelled it out in A:TI #5, can we FINALLY lay THAT to rest? Geez!


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 on Apple MacOS
Dan Slott




> Nowhere in the original thread did I insult you and your work at all. I even went out of my way to say that the intent of the post wasn't about your writing.

There's a term for that. It's called "hanging a lantern on it" or "lampshade hanging".
Here's a fun link about that:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging

It's like me saying that this reply ISN'T about you jumping to conclusions because of your biases. Nope. It's about me setting the record straight.

See how that works? \:\)

>IT WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO. It just so happened that your new SHE-HULK issue was where he showed up again. He could have showed up in BIRDS OF PREY #109, and I would have still complained about the Rhino.

Wow! That'd be some feat... Considering BOP is a DC book. \:\)

> In case you haven't noticed, I've been trying to stop with my negative comments about your work and the work of Peter David.

This is like one of those signs that mentions how many days have gone by without an accident in the workplace...

...and now the number goes back down to "0".

Awww.

>So nowhere did I even mention anything about the Bengal, nor do I even give a flying flip about what goes on with him in your title. I don't even flip through the issue anymore at the store.

No. If you READ my post, you'll notice that I didn't SAY you mentioned Bengal in your last post. What I was pointing out was that in the PAST you made about 3 dozen ERRONEUS and very irate posts about my handling of Bengal. Even after I'd already responded to some telling you that I had cleared how-and-why Bengal was in the book with Bengal's CREATOR, Fabian Nicieza. AND that last week there was a scene in A:TI #5 that addressed ALL of it.

It would be SO nice if like a major publication if the most VOCAL of posters had to make retractions when they were flat-out wrong. ;\)

> So, your reply is pretty damn insulting, an unwarrented attack in my opinion, one based on the past. I have moved on, so why haven't you?

Great job moving on. And, btw, your opinion is wrong. Because if you took the time READ the preview pages you were complaining-- you'd see that NOT EVEN the Rhino. But please, hit that note again...

> The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.

Nope. I didn't see what I wanted to see. I saw YOU complaining about something you hadn't READ. Not fair, sir. Not fair at all.

Attok, an opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. What you had WASN'T a VALID opinion. Because you HAD sufficient information RIGHT IN FRONT of you. And you didn't even take the time to take it in. You had a knee-jerk reaction and used it to draw faulty conclusions. And then you raced over to this board and posted it-- to a large virtual room of other Marvel readers-- giving misinformation about something that my team put a lot of hard work into. To me THAT'S insulting.


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Blargh




No one is forcing you to read these books, or even the pages that the Rhino appears in it. Don't like it? Don't read it. Wow, how simple was that


> The spoiler is in regards to SHE-HULK #21....
>
> ....and no it's not a "hate Dan Slott" thread....
>
> That #$%^&%$ Rhino shows up in SHE-HULK#21. Sweet. Love. Of. God. This is getting ridiculous. I hate the Rhino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-@ :-@ :-@
>
> Someone please tell me what the appeal of this character is. I'm begging you. The Rhino shows up EVERY month, in at least one or two titles. Over and over again. The MU super-heroes are dopes. Why do they put the Rhino in jail when they know he will break out the next day, only to get caught again, put in jail again and then break....get the picture?
>
> The Rhino needs to die. He needs to die a lot. And then when he's dead, he needs to die again. A lot.
>
> Even Mephisto wouldn't want him in his realm!
>
> End of "I hate the %$%^&&** Rhino rant.
>
> Have a nice day. \:\-\)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Smithville Thunderbolt




> No one is forcing you to read these books, or even the pages that the Rhino appears in it. Don't like it? Don't read it. Wow, how simple was that

Actually, Attok got in trouble here by not reading it. But I don't really like the "Don't like it? Don't read it" argument. Particularly if one is invested in the Marvel universe as a whole, I think it is well within the parameters of acceptability to go on a message board and complain about the overuse of a character.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
DragynWulf




> Nowhere in the original thread did I insult you and your work at all. I even went out of my way to say that the intent of the post wasn't about your writing. IT WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO.
>

Lets break it down... he used the "Rhino" in an issue and you are complaining about the Rhino being used "again" in an issue, which he wrote. Therefore, you are actually complaining about his writing because he used a fictional character that for some reason you hate and want to die. Which basically is bashing a fictional character.

>It just so happened that your new SHE-HULK issue was where he showed up again. He could have showed up in BIRDS OF PREY #109, and I would have still complained about the Rhino.
>

If you'd take the time to read the issue you'd realize your statement and complaint is what is uncalled for. Here you are complaining about a character that you THINK is something, but if you'd take the time to actually READ the issue, you'd find out that what you "think" is not indeed fact. If you think that is too confussing, then read the issue for the answer and find out for yourself that your rant and complaint is unjustified because as Dan Slott mentioned, the entire point of "Rhino" appearing in the issue is that he is overused.

SHE-HULK isn't your typical comic, it is different with comical tones breaking the "wall" (so to speak) between comic and comic reader. She-Hulk talks to the reader instead of just acting in character as a normal comic character does.

> So, your reply is pretty damn insulting, an unwarrented attack in my opinion, one based on the past. I have moved on, so why haven't you?
>

I disagree. His reply is spot on without any insult. If you'd take the time to stop ranting and actually read the issue, which is what he said, you'd understand why Rhino was in the issue. Key hint is that this is the continuity fix issue. Nothing more will be said about the content. If you want to know that, then try finding spoilers elsewhere since it seems you won't bother to actually read the issue for yourself, just so you can continue your rants.

> The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.
>

I could use all caps here also, but I won't. I basically will repeat what Dan Slott said...
Read the issue before you judge a book by its cover instead of making rants about characters appearing in the issue. That is what it comes down to really. You want to complain/rant about something, while the answer is in the issue. It is up to you to read it and find out the answer you seek about "the constant use of the Rhino".

Have a Nice Day!
-DragynWulf






Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
DragynWulf




> > No one is forcing you to read these books, or even the pages that the Rhino appears in it. Don't like it? Don't read it. Wow, how simple was that
>
> Actually, Attok got in trouble here by not reading it. But I don't really like the "Don't like it? Don't read it" argument. Particularly if one is invested in the Marvel universe as a whole, I think it is well within the parameters of acceptability to go on a message board and complain about the overuse of a character.
>

The only way for someone to be invested in the Marvel Universe as a whole is for them to buy every single issue that Marvel has ever published. If they do not, then they are only investing in a portion of the Marvel Universe and in that particular title or titles they buy.

Complaining about an overused character that the person complaining doesn't bother to read the actual issues that the character appears in is like a lactose intolerant person complaining that just by looking at milk it gives them diarrhea.

Have a Nice Day!
-DragynWulf






Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
zeus




> The only way for someone to be invested in the Marvel Universe as a whole is for them to buy every single issue that Marvel has ever published. If they do not, then they are only investing in a portion of the Marvel Universe and in that particular title or titles they buy.
>
That's not true at all. I've got a few issues from just about every corner of the MU, running the gambit from the 60s to today. I like to have an idea of what's going on, and have a vested interest in the wider MU as a whole, but I can't afford to buy EVERYTHING.

> Complaining about an overused character that the person complaining doesn't bother to read the actual issues that the character appears in is like a lactose intolerant person complaining that just by looking at milk it gives them diarrhea.
>
> Have a Nice Day!
> -DragynWulf

>
>
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Smithville Thunderbolt




> The only way for someone to be invested in the Marvel Universe as a whole is for them to buy every single issue that Marvel has ever published. If they do not, then they are only investing in a portion of the Marvel Universe and in that particular title or titles they buy.

You may be getting hung up on my word "invested." If so, please substitute, "have a vested interest."


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
GammaSpidey




The premise of the story sort of explains why particular characters keep popping up all the time... ie. Rhino etc. People from an alternate Earth are taking vacations as "super-beings" on the true Marvel Earth, including possibly the Rhino, which helps explain why he pops up a lot.

Knee-jerk reactions are sad....



> Nowhere in the original thread did I insult you and your work at all. I even went out of my way to say that the intent of the post wasn't about your writing. IT WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO. It just so happened that your new SHE-HULK issue was where he showed up again. He could have showed up in BIRDS OF PREY #109, and I would have still complained about the Rhino.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, I've been trying to stop with my negative comments about your work and the work of Peter David. So nowhere did I even mention anything about the Bengal, nor do I even give a flying flip about what goes on with him in your title. I don't even flip through the issue anymore at the store.
>
> So, your reply is pretty damn insulting, an unwarrented attack in my opinion, one based on the past. I have moved on, so why haven't you?
>
> The only thing I can think of is that you read my original post and saw only what you wanted to see. Either that or my English is bad. So I'll repeat myself -- THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT THE CONSTANT USE OF THE RHINO, NOT ABOUT HOW BAD I THINK YOUR WRITING IS.
>
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Stingray




>And, btw, your opinion is wrong.

A) Uh..isn't the point of an opinion that it isn't necessarily wrong or right? That's why it's opinion & not fact.

B) Yeah, Dan...sarcasm when dealing with someone that openly doesn't have a high opinion of you is like taking a keg to an AA meeting, you're just asking for it, really.

C) And, seriously guys --both of you-- ...wouldn't it just be best to avoid commenting about/to one another? I mean, you've both got to know by now that saying pretty much anything regarding the other is gonna lead to this kind of stuff. Seems rather dense to keep doing it, imho.

~~Stingray~~


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Smithville Thunderbolt




> >And, btw, your opinion is wrong.
>
> A) Uh..isn't the point of an opinion that it isn't necessarily wrong or right? That's why it's opinion & not fact.

In this case, Dan was arguing that the opinion was based on erroneous information, which would make it "wrong" or "invalid." However, even in the big picture, I'm troubled by the suggestion that an opinion can't be wrong. What about the opinion that white people are superior to other races?


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Omar Karindu




> >And, btw, your opinion is wrong.
>
> A) Uh..isn't the point of an opinion that it isn't necessarily wrong or right? That's why it's opinion & not fact.

No, and this is a disturbing little bete noir of Internet discussiont hat drives me mad. Opinions can most certainly be right or wrong. History books are littered with examples of bad, wrong, stupid, and malicious opinions.

The idea that opinion s and facts are utterly separate creatures is simply erroneous; we form opinions about facts, and we rely on the facts to inform our opinons. Get the facts wrong at either end, and it is quite possible to have an opinion that is wrong due to misinformation, intellectual sloppiness, or simple error.

Opinions can also be in error if they're inconsistently expressed; if I'm going to opine that, say, red and white are a lousy color scheme for a costume and then elsewhere opine that Stingray and Crossfire have the best costumes in the Marvel Universe, something's certainly wrong about one or both of those opinons insofar as they shouldn't be possible for me to hold simultaneously.

We generally have reasons for our opinions. Where those reasons are wrong or lacking, our opinions can certainly become less valuable, less meaningful...and, in short, "bad" or "wrong."

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Tiger Shark




And we can't take all the words we're using here too literally.

For example, if I've been a huge Star Wars fan since 1977-1978, and don't like a new comic book being issued about the SW mythos, I think I have a right to complain--or at least voice my disapproval--on a board like this even if I stop buying said series after, say, the 8th issue.

Simply 'not buying it' doesn't resolve the larger problem if one feels that a mythos (for lack of a better word) one is enthusiastic about is taking a huge turn for the worse.

Just as we may not literally pay for watching The Simpsons on TV with $$ (though we do pay with our time and energy), but we can still complain or be upset if the show were to take a hard Christian turn due to the influence of the Religious Right.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Stingray




> > >And, btw, your opinion is wrong.
> >
> > A) Uh..isn't the point of an opinion that it isn't necessarily wrong or right? That's why it's opinion & not fact.
>
> In this case, Dan was arguing that the opinion was based on erroneous information, which would make it "wrong" or "invalid." However, even in the big picture, I'm troubled by the suggestion that an opinion can't be wrong. What about the opinion that white people are superior to other races?

Opinions can only be wrong if they are stated as though they are fact. It depends on the delivery. For example:

Chocolate Ice Cream is the greatest thing in the world.
--The wording insinuates fact, despite (obviously) it being an opinion.

I think Chocolate Ice Cream is the greatest thing in the world.
--Obviously an opinion.

Opinions contradict each other, so if I say the X-Men suck, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong or right, it depends on whom you ask, why I said it, etc. To use this conversation as an example, A12 was saying -- in a nutshell -- he was tired of seeing Rhino everywhere. The way he was used had nothing to do with it, so the scene itself really isn't relevent to the opinion, so how was he wrong? At the same time, if you look at the reasons he had for being tired of Rhino being everywhere, and then look at the context of this useage, then what's wrong with the appearance? They're both wrong AND right. Most opinions -- MOST -- work that way, even the most vile of them. But again, it comes down to presentation.


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Stingray




> > >And, btw, your opinion is wrong.
> >
> > A) Uh..isn't the point of an opinion that it isn't necessarily wrong or right? That's why it's opinion & not fact.
>
> No, and this is a disturbing little bete noir of Internet discussiont hat drives me mad. Opinions can most certainly be right or wrong. History books are littered with examples of bad, wrong, stupid, and malicious opinions.

Good or bad, sure. Stupid, ignorant, malicious, yeah...agreed. Wrong, I don't agree with. (and no, wrong & bad aren't synonomous.) To say someone's opinion -- their thoughts on some matter is blatantly, outright, wrong implies that your opinion is the one that's right. So what if someone else comes along and proves you're opinion isn't entirely right after all? What happens to Joe Schmoe #1 that you said was wrong? For example:

Say I sit here and go into a diatribe about how godawful a character um...Red Wolf is. I launch into a reasonable arguement, etc etc, but the bottom line is that I just don't see the appeal. So someone else comes along and says I'm wrong, and rattles off anything and everything remotely virutuous about the guy. Then, a couple months later, someone else comes along with an even more compelling case of why old Talltrees should've been lumberjacked a long time ago. Who's right or wrong? Nobody, it's all opinion.

That's the kind of thing I'm getting at.

This instance is different, though. In this case, Attok said that in his opinion something that was said was insulting to him, and Dan said his opinion was wrong. Did I miss somewhere where Dan Slott became the expert on Attok's point of view and could make that particular call? Although, it was probably not Attok's best choice to start the post off with "this isn't an slam Dan Slott thread"...that kind of thing just screams "kick me in the junk!"

>
> The idea that opinion s and facts are utterly separate creatures is simply erroneous; we form opinions about facts,

~~Exactly. ABOUT them. Still two seperate entities. They work together, certainly...can't & won't argue against that. But they ARE two seperate things. Opinions in & of themselves aren't factual, they're conclusions drawn from facts presented, and biased to our own personal perspectives.

>Opinions can also be in error if they're inconsistently expressed;

~~THAT I agree with. But that's the presentation that changes things, rather than the opinion. I pointed that out in my other response.

>Stingray and Crossfire have the best costumes in the Marvel Universe,

~~I wouldn't argue ;\)
>
> We generally have reasons for our opinions. Where those reasons are wrong or lacking, our opinions can certainly become less valuable, less meaningful...and, in short, "bad" or "wrong."

Less valuable and less meaningful don't equate to wrong, though. Just because someone doesn't agree with something doesn't necessarily make it wrong. There are obvious and extreme examples to the contrary, of course -- the nutjob that believes its his right to kill the neighbor because the neighbor's dog crapped in his yard, is more than likely wrong, unless he lives in some sort of Mad Max/Jericho post apocalyptic place like my old hometown. You can find extreme examples for pretty much any arguement though.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Smithville Thunderbolt




>There are obvious and extreme examples to the contrary, of course -- the nutjob that believes its his right to kill the neighbor because the neighbor's dog crapped in his yard, is more than likely wrong, unless he lives in some sort of Mad Max/Jericho post apocalyptic place like my old hometown. You can find extreme examples for pretty much any arguement though.

But where do you draw the line? Extreme as it may be, if nutjob's opinion is wrong, that means it is possible for an opinion to be wrong.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Smithville Thunderbolt




>so how was he wrong?

Because it wasn't the Rhino. If he left it at "I'm sick of seeing the Rhino everywhere" or even "I don't think the Rhino should be everywhere," you would be correct that it would be unfair to call him wrong. But to say "I don't like the Rhino's appearance in this comic because I'm sick of the Rhino being everywhere" is just as wrong as if I said "I don't like our current president because he did a bad job as Reagan's vice-president."




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