ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

NO

Too easy..Tony is one of the coolest chars in marvel

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

Too much of an easy out, let him be shown to be the flawed human who made seriously poor choice errors based on what he thought was a good idea and deal with that.

> > ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.
>
> Too much of an easy out, let him be shown to be the flawed human who made seriously poor choice errors based on what he thought was a good idea and deal with that.




It'll probably never happen in a story, but in a lot of ways, Stark helped the Skrulls out by pushing the SHRA and then also in enforcing it. In fact, it's probably why they didn't replace him with a Skrull. He did a good deal of their job for them, and in some ways softened the U.S. for an invasion in the first place.

I think it'd be just as powerful and poignant a story to have Tony come to grips with his actions and realize he crossed major lines to promote what he labelled as decisions for the better good. In leadership terms, right now he's no better than Dr Doom. Some of his backers might also benefit from such an epiphany.

and it might be time for him to stop bragging about what a "futurist" he is.

***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.

> > ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.
>
> NO
> NO!also Tony is human.
> Too easy..Tony is one of the coolest chars in marvel

> ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.

...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

> > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
>
> ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.

are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*

> > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> >
> > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
>
> are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*





Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.

Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.

> > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > >
> > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> >
> > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
>
>
>
>
>
> Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
>
> Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.

the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.

Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.

> > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > >
> > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > >
> > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> >
> > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
>
> the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
>
> Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
Michael

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

> ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.

> > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > >
> > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > >
> > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> >
> > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> >
> > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> Michael

...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?

This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.

The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".

To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

Never!
too much character buildind\unbuilding over the last few years for it to happen again.

And we trust in him to Stay Awesome, and keep on enforcing Superhuman Registration.

> > > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > > >
> > > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> > >
> > > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> > >
> > > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> > Michael
>
> ...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?
>
> This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.
>
> The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
> 1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
> 2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".
>
> To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
Michael

> ive posted this in the ironman message board and most replies were a big no. now im wondering if the concensus will also be the same here.

____________________



Experience The Bijou: Mini-Matinee 26

> > > > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> > > >
> > > > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> > > >
> > > > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> > > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> > > Michael
> >
> > ...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?
> >
> > This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.
> >
> > The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
> > 1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
> > 2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".
> >
> > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> Michael

Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.

Cheers.

James.

> > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.



***The skrull situation seems to stem back from a looooongg time ago before there was a SHRA...as far as the effectiveness of the act itself...hell it was said in Civil War itself that crime had gone down like 40% or some number...there are now teams every where in the country and not just NY, and it doesn't just have to do with super villains but when people just need help...they have a genuine registered hero there to help them...It is because of the SHRA all the eggs are not in one place.

> You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder.


***Tell that to the parents at Stamford...or that kid Freedom Ring...who would have been an awesome hero had he gotten proper training under something like the SHRA.

> > > > > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> > > > >
> > > > > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> > > > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > > ...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?
> > >
> > > This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.
> > >
> > > The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
> > > 1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
> > > 2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".
> > >
> > > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> > Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> > Michael
>
> Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.
>

um, no, it was the hulks attack that unified the heroes in WWH(if you can even call that unity) not tony.
and i have yet to see any uniy in secret invasion

> > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
>
>
>
> ***The skrull situation seems to stem back from a looooongg time ago before there was a SHRA...

Yes, and note they didn't try to take over during THAT time, because of the fragmentary nature of the heroes, ONLY after the SHRA was in force.

>as far as the effectiveness of the act itself...hell it was said in Civil War itself that crime had gone down like 40% or some number...

Have you noticed any particualr drop in villainous activity in the MU? Can't say that I have.

>there are now teams every where in the country and not just NY,

Yes, and that means there's a Skrull agent within each group of heroes. They might have been better positioned to take over NY before, now they're better positioned to take over the COUNTRY!

>and it doesn't just have to do with super villains but when people just need help...they have a genuine registered hero there to help them...It is because of the SHRA all the eggs are not in one place.

I think you're misreading my point. The SHRA regulation has created an monolithic infrastructure for heroic activity which never existed before. By infiltrating that infrastructure, the Skrulls are in a vastly better position to strike than the pre-SHRA set up would allow, since it provides them with a framework for control, communication, and intel undreamed of before the SHRA.

Look at it this way. In the past, if the Skrulls wanted to invade, the would have to fight the Avengers, then they would still have to attack the Defenders separately, because there was no correllation between the two teams, and the Fantastic Four, and the X-Men etc... A war on multiple fronts, each with their own backup plans, intel and technology to rely on.

Now the lucky Skrulls can, in one fell swoop, disable the internal communications which ALL these teams rely on, and by infiltrating the core, already have agents in those teams, who are in much better positions to share intel and communications with each other.

Advantage Skrulls...

>
> > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder.
>
>
> ***Tell that to the parents at Stamford...

Which, as has been noted, is only a big deal because of the fact the story keeps insisting it is, and one of the worst bits of media manipulation I've ever seen depicted (Blaming the NW, rather than Nitro, the guy who actually consciously triggered the explosion). The MU has seen everything from entire countries being decimated by magic, to the devastation on the USA wrought by Kang's invasion. Stanford is a tragedy, but it's not THAT special a tragedy to the average MU person.

>or that kid Freedom Ring...who would have been an awesome hero had he gotten proper training under something like the SHRA.

As might MVP and everyone killed my KIA had it NOT been for the SHRA.

> > > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> > Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> > Michael
>
> Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.
Cap only started resisting the SHRA violently when the supporters tried to arrest him for a hypothetical statement during a conversation. And yes, we do KNOW that it was the Illuminati that allowed the Skrulls to become undetectable. Bendis devoted an entire issue of New Avengers to explaining it.
Michael
>
> Cheers.
>
> James.

> >
> > > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder.
> >
> >
> > ***Tell that to the parents at Stamford...
>
> Which, as has been noted, is only a big deal because of the fact the story keeps insisting it is, and one of the worst bits of media manipulation I've ever seen depicted (Blaming the NW, rather than Nitro, the guy who actually consciously triggered the explosion). The MU has seen everything from entire countries being decimated by magic, to the devastation on the USA wrought by Kang's invasion. Stanford is a tragedy, but it's not THAT special a tragedy to the average MU person.
>
> >or that kid Freedom Ring...who would have been an awesome hero had he gotten proper training under something like the SHRA.
>
> As might MVP and everyone killed my KIA had it NOT been for the SHRA.

ALmost ALL superheroes would be dead if not for the SHRA...it's called Project Wideawake.

> > > > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> > > Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> > > Michael
> >
> > Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.
> Cap only started resisting the SHRA violently when the supporters tried to arrest him for a hypothetical statement during a conversation. And yes, we do KNOW that it was the Illuminati that allowed the Skrulls to become undetectable. Bendis devoted an entire issue of New Avengers to explaining it.

They didnt allow them to become undetectable at all...thats a silly argument. Heroes get captured ALL the time...this time the skrulls did some delving afterwards...you cant blame them for being caught...they went on a mission that didnt go as planned...gee has that ever happened in anything but 99% of the comics we read?

Those stupid X-Men...they tried to stop a demon invasion but it was tougher then they though...they helping the skrulls as well?

> > > > > > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> > > > > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> > > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > ...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?
> > > >
> > > > This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.
> > > >
> > > > The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
> > > > 1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
> > > > 2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".
> > > >
> > > > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> > > Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> > > Michael
> >
> > Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.
> >
>
> um, no, it was the hulks attack that unified the heroes in WWH(if you can even call that unity) not tony.
> and i have yet to see any uniy in secret invasion

He did unify them...he basically said lets bury our differences until this is over and work together...they agreed.

Secret Invasion...havent you seen the 50 states initive teams he spearheaded working together to try and repel the skrull invasion...just cause the skrulls are still winning doesnt mean they havent unified.

> > > > > > > > > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ...harder for a unified resistance to form against them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > are you saying the marvel heroes are now more unified now than pre-SHRA? *gah*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not even close to unified. Based on half of the comics from the last year, i'd say there's severe disorganization as well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seriously, I know the IDEA is cool, but anyone who salutes the SHRA is not thouroughly reading the stories imo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the 50 state initiative is a heck of a lot more organized then what was going on before.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seriously,the IDEA is cool, but anyone who does not salute the SHRA is not thouroughly reading any stories other then the 2 or 3 anti-SHRA storybooks out there.
> > > > > > You're missing the point. A unified organization is easier to infiltrate than several seperate ones. Not only that, the "several seperate organizations" model has worked in the MU for years, against everyone from Wraiths to Surtur to the Beyonder. Veranke was right. Tony is the greatest hero the Skrulls have ever known.
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > ...the status quo always resets...do you think the Skrulls will really win this? Are you advocating 100 individual spy agencies all working for 100 different little goivernments within the USA?
> > > > >
> > > > > This new model is working better then before. It has been stated and shown over and over that crime is at an all time low...due to SHRA.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Skrulls started their invasion LOOOOOOOONNGGG before SHRA. Backl when Fury was in charge under "your old system". You could just as easily say...the old system is the greatest asset the Skrulls have ever had...
> > > > > 1)They were allowed to keep attempting take over after take over
> > > > > 2)Being so disorganized the Skrulls were easily able to infiltrate the heroes over the last "fill in the blank years".
> > > > >
> > > > > To make this kind of argument you have to look at when they FIRST started infiltrating...and when was that? After Galactus ate their homeworld...guess what? That was your "old way/system".
> > > > Yeah, but one of the top three people in charge of your "new system" is a Skrull. And the other two were the idiots whose screwup enabled the Skrulls to become undetectable.Now we've got a Skrull in every state. Moreover, Tony's actions divided the heroes and made them hate each other.
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > > Um, no, that was Cap's actions which divided the heroes not Tony (who has twice managed to unify all the heroes, both during World War Hulk and now, for Secret Invasion). Besides, we don't KNOW that it was the Illuminati (including Tony and Reed) that allowed the skrulls to become undetectable, not for certain.
> > >
> >
> > um, no, it was the hulks attack that unified the heroes in WWH(if you can even call that unity) not tony.
> > and i have yet to see any uniy in secret invasion
>
> He did unify them...he basically said lets bury our differences until this is over and work together...they agreed.
>

uh if i remember correctly didnt he say this to the heroes who were already fighting the hulk? and that he basically will just not arrest them at that time? thats unity?

> Secret Invasion...havent you seen the 50 states initive teams he spearheaded working together to try and repel the skrull invasion...just cause the skrulls are still winning doesnt mean they havent unified.

uh no? thats not what you said before. you said tony "twice managed to unify all the heroes" which he has yet to do in secret invasion. the initiative is his team. i wouldnt call that uniting all the heroes. uniting mostly unknown heroes maybe?