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REED RICHARDS




WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
i'm not sure but it's just not that good.


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FirstChAoS





    Quote:
    WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
    i'm not sure but it's just not that good.


I agree. Thought I am loving GotG and Nova regardless if they are WoK tie ins or not, WoK does nothing for me. I am still getting it, but it hasn't engorossed me and drawn me in the way the other cosmic events did.

Honestly i suspect that for me it is more due to the fact that I am not a big inhumans fan nor does vulcan interest me.

I am interested in the imperial guard though, and am very curious whether or not it will touch upon any of the guard who vanished without a trace over the years. According to wikkipedia their is enough missing guard to make two superteams.

If vulcan is ever defeated and a more benign gov't put in place i'd like to see a guard series.


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Ironing Man




The last two Cosmic stories each had a big surprise reveal that really amped the momentum of the storyline, while WoK is a pretty basic story with no big surprises as of yet, I'm almost thinking the 'aftershocks' of this storyline is what will make it all worthwhile because right now it's just sort of 'meh' for me. There's still hope for the next two issues, i even have a few crazy ideas.

-Doom 2099 shows up to take over space. (CRAZY I know, I thought this up months ago when an issue of GotG had an alien oracle mention a future doom coming, crazy, but I like it)

-Vulcan ends up with the Pheonix Force (Rachel losing it made me first think it was because Jean Grey was returning, but hey, maybe it found a new and evil host)

-Inhumans take over the Negative Zone

-Maximus ends up the King of everything

WoK is still well done, it just doesn't have all the big crazy moments I was kind of expecting.

Really, all i hope for in the end is that Havok and crew either get a regular series as the Starjammers or most of them all join up with Guardians of the Galaxy.


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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556



I agree, it's the lacking of a big reveal.. or a surprise twist. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying WOK as much as the regular books it involves, but it's not an Annihilation level event with the FATE of the Universe in the balance. It's the fate of the Kree and the Shiar futures, yes, but that's just a story. A good one, but far from a blockbuster event.

And I am enjoying this more than the traditional Marvel 'Events' like CW, HoM, or SI proper.





Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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stingerman




I would say not as good as the first Annihilation, but a million times better than Conquest, which imo was pretty bad - especially the ending.

True, there haven't been major reveals/happenings in the main book (other than with issue #4) but the tie-ins have been darn good.

And you could look at it as the fate of the universe is at stake, but they don't really touch upon that in the main book, more in GoTG.




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Quantum


Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 2,285


There's nothing not to like, and a lot of great ideas happening: The Inhumans taking over the Kree, Crustal's bizarre betrothal to Ronan, the dissension within the Imperial Guars, and finally, the upcoming collision between Vulcan and Black Bolt, both of them ridiculously powerful and rarely confronted with an adequate match in combat... And lest I forget, STELLAR art by PAul Pelletier!




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Rion





    Quote:
    WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
    i'm not sure but it's just not that good.



The draw for me is threefold:
1) The Inhumans
2) Darkhawk
3) The Starjammers

I want all three to spin off into ongoing books!

The negative for me is Vulcan. I just find him tedious. For the first time ever, I am eagerly hoping for a character to die.





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bd2999





    Quote:
    WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
    i'm not sure but it's just not that good.


It is still a cosmic book, you cannot have there be a truely universe threatening event every couple months or it loses something. The original Annihilation is one of the best series I have ever read, period. Conquest was a downgrade but still a good read. Nova and GotG are both very very very good too. The best Marvel is putting out right now, I would also say Ghost Rider is but that is more personel bias.

This is more about the cosmic empires and to be honest working the Shi'ar in better. They were supposed to be part of the original Annihilation but they could not permission to use them because they were being used by the x men writters at the moment. Not sure but it sounded like someone had a fit or something.

Its not a bad read, I loved the Guardians showing up but you are right that it lacks a pressing drive to it. I could care less what the Inhumans or the Shi ar do to be quite honest with you. Not a huge fan of either of them and the Kree are fine with me but ronan got the shaft hard in this one. Its not a bad book by any means and I like some of the things it is doing. DnA does really well with this type of story I just find the space empire stuff to be less interesting. It is still cosmic as it is space empires and such, but it is not cosmic in the sense that alot of forces are fighting invaders from another dimension, or someone trying to gain ultimate power etc. Usually we get some Galactus heralds showing up and some other big guns. That is one of the big things of Annihilation, Galactus getting dragged into it.

I would love to see an event similar to Annihilation happen with the mystical universe with marvel and maybe a war between magic and cosmic, like have Dormammu finally win his way into the normal universe because the new Sorcerer Supreme is not up to the task at hand. Then it creates a similar to Annihilation event but directly pitting the magical against science and such. I would say it could be a Earth spanning event too but I rather it not be about a bunch of people stopping Dormammu who have no buisness even facing off against him.




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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,108



    Quote:

    I agree, it's the lacking of a big reveal.. or a surprise twist. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying WOK as much as the regular books it involves, but it's not an Annihilation level event with the FATE of the Universe in the balance. It's the fate of the Kree and the Shiar futures, yes, but that's just a story. A good one, but far from a blockbuster event.



    Quote:
    And I am enjoying this more than the traditional Marvel 'Events' like CW, HoM, or SI proper.







"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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mjyoung





    Quote:
    WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
    i'm not sure but it's just not that good.


It's not a good series, and I blame the writing team.

Annihilation was a success primarily because the original editor involved, Andy Schmidt, had a good take on the characters. After he left Marvel, the line has never been the same.

A huge problem with the current situation is the writers. I firmly beleive that they shouldn't be in charge of both cosmic titles, in the same way that I don't think Bendis should have written both New and Mighty Avengers.

GotG and Nova aren't great books, and their sales are a great illustration of that. These books aren't "going unappreciated" as many people like to think, they aren't underrated. They are placed at the level they deserve.

These books are simply "good" reads, but aren't great.


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bd2999





    Quote:

      Quote:
      WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
      i'm not sure but it's just not that good.



    Quote:
    It's not a good series, and I blame the writing team.



    Quote:
    Annihilation was a success primarily because the original editor involved, Andy Schmidt, had a good take on the characters. After he left Marvel, the line has never been the same.


Andy was a great guy, got to chat with him on some boards. Knows his stuff well, it was a shame he moved off of the cosmic stuff, but the writters are important too. Keith Giffen got the characters he was working with.


    Quote:
    A huge problem with the current situation is the writers. I firmly beleive that they shouldn't be in charge of both cosmic titles, in the same way that I don't think Bendis should have written both New and Mighty Avengers.


I could sort of agree, but Bendis really is not a great writter. I think DnA is very good. Just the cosmic events like Conquest and War of Kings are not universe shattering events at their core so not going to be as interesting to some folks.


    Quote:
    GotG and Nova aren't great books, and their sales are a great illustration of that. These books aren't "going unappreciated" as many people like to think, they aren't underrated. They are placed at the level they deserve.


And here I disagree with you alot. Nova and GotG are exceptional titles. In terms of art, story, overall driving force and interest they are exceptional. Numerous reviewers accross the webs have said the same thing that they are among the best comics out there right now. The sales numbers are not often indicative of the quality of a book either. You can always bet that Spider-man or X-men will be at the top even if the stories happening are terrible. The current Hulk series is terrible but it always sells well, does that mean its a better innate book? I dont think so.

The fact of the matter is that even the first Annihilation that about everyone love did not sell that great either. It was middle of the pack in terms of the charts, still good but not exceptional. Cosmic books dont have the audience that other Marvel titles do, there is a base for it, a strong base for certain characters, but they will never have the appeal of more Earth based heros. Silver Surfer is probably the most popular of the cosmic heros that is known by a wide audience and he has not had a title in a long while. The current Nova series by default is the most successful solo run the character has ever had, before this it only broke 10 I believe. Not a high bar but it still made it. I think you should read the book, andgive it a chance.


    Quote:
    These books are simply "good" reads, but aren't great.


Point me something that Marvel is making that is better than Nova? Other titles tend to be dull. As much as I adore the Avengers those titles have been on downward spirals and need major events to drive them to any real success it seems.




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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

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Location: The Negative Zone
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Posts: 4,556


Not adding, just agreeing. As far as 'well written'.. sales are not indicative of how well something is written, unfortunately, and there's little I've read that is well done as Nova or GotG.

One big difference between Annihilation and War of Kings: In the first story we saw what were usually considered to be enemies.. like Klrt and Ronan, stepping up as heroic figures. In WoK it's more or less the same expected playig field of good guys. with folks like lack Bolt seeming not as 'good' as we're used to. I think that pulls some of the appreciation of the story away. But the WRITING is divine \:\)


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
        i'm not sure but it's just not that good.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        It's not a good series, and I blame the writing team.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Annihilation was a success primarily because the original editor involved, Andy Schmidt, had a good take on the characters. After he left Marvel, the line has never been the same.



    Quote:
    Andy was a great guy, got to chat with him on some boards. Knows his stuff well, it was a shame he moved off of the cosmic stuff, but the writters are important too. Keith Giffen got the characters he was working with.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      A huge problem with the current situation is the writers. I firmly beleive that they shouldn't be in charge of both cosmic titles, in the same way that I don't think Bendis should have written both New and Mighty Avengers.



    Quote:
    I could sort of agree, but Bendis really is not a great writter. I think DnA is very good. Just the cosmic events like Conquest and War of Kings are not universe shattering events at their core so not going to be as interesting to some folks.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      GotG and Nova aren't great books, and their sales are a great illustration of that. These books aren't "going unappreciated" as many people like to think, they aren't underrated. They are placed at the level they deserve.



    Quote:
    And here I disagree with you alot. Nova and GotG are exceptional titles. In terms of art, story, overall driving force and interest they are exceptional. Numerous reviewers accross the webs have said the same thing that they are among the best comics out there right now. The sales numbers are not often indicative of the quality of a book either. You can always bet that Spider-man or X-men will be at the top even if the stories happening are terrible. The current Hulk series is terrible but it always sells well, does that mean its a better innate book? I dont think so.



    Quote:
    The fact of the matter is that even the first Annihilation that about everyone love did not sell that great either. It was middle of the pack in terms of the charts, still good but not exceptional. Cosmic books dont have the audience that other Marvel titles do, there is a base for it, a strong base for certain characters, but they will never have the appeal of more Earth based heros. Silver Surfer is probably the most popular of the cosmic heros that is known by a wide audience and he has not had a title in a long while. The current Nova series by default is the most successful solo run the character has ever had, before this it only broke 10 I believe. Not a high bar but it still made it. I think you should read the book, andgive it a chance.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      These books are simply "good" reads, but aren't great.



    Quote:
    Point me something that Marvel is making that is better than Nova? Other titles tend to be dull. As much as I adore the Avengers those titles have been on downward spirals and need major events to drive them to any real success it seems.







Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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mjyoung





    Quote:
    Andy was a great guy, got to chat with him on some boards. Knows his stuff well, it was a shame he moved off of the cosmic stuff, but the writters are important too. Keith Giffen got the characters he was working with.


Well I could go and on about all the great things great about Annihilation, and the Keith Griffen was one of them. I was only saying that the editor was the most important part. It was his idea that he "forced" Marvel to do.


    Quote:
    I could sort of agree, but Bendis really is not a great writer. I think DnA is very good. Just the cosmic events like Conquest and War of Kings are not universe shattering events at their core so not going to be as interesting to some folks.


How are they not universe shattering? All three stories are about the same thing, two forces battling each other on a cosmic scale.

If anything, I could see how more people would be hyped for War of Kings. It's a story of several semipopular ideas, like Vulcan/Starjammers, the Inhumans, and another cosmic event.

War of Kings hasn't had any effect on the other cosmic titles.


    Quote:
    And here I disagree with you alot. Nova and GotG are exceptional titles. In terms of art, story, overall driving force and interest they are exceptional. Numerous reviewers accross the webs have said the same thing that they are among the best comics out there right now. The sales numbers are not often indicative of the quality of a book either. You can always bet that Spider-man or X-men will be at the top even if the stories happening are terrible. The current Hulk series is terrible but it always sells well, does that mean its a better innate book? I dont think so.


It means that more people are buying those other stories, which is really the only objective that really matters. Everything else, like what people say on the internet, is subjective.


    Quote:
    I think you should read the book, andgive it a chance.


What makes you think that I don't read the books I'm criticizing? Because I don't think they are great? Is your first assumption that anyone who doesn't think these books are great hasn't been reading them?


    Quote:

      Quote:
      These books are simply "good" reads, but aren't great.



    Quote:
    Point me something that Marvel is making that is better than Nova? Other titles tend to be dull. As much as I adore the Avengers those titles have been on downward spirals and need major events to drive them to any real success it seems.


Assuming you are asking my personal opinion, I would place lots of books above it. I'd put all 3 Avengers titles, Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Weapon X, Wolverine, Uncanny, X-Force, pretty much all the Marvel titles that sell better than those stories do. Of course, I could add more non Marvel titles here as well.

As a person who isn't a big cosmic fan if these books are their favorite titles, and I bet many won't say that. A big cosmic fan saying he loves these books isn't that important, since he will probably love any cosmic title.

Again, I'm not saying that these cosmic books are bad, I just think they are good, and not great. I'd give them a C+ or a B-.

These books simply have too many problems with them to be great. GotG needs a smaller cast, less subplots, needs to get rid of the interview narration idea, needs better stories and villains, etc. Nova needs a supporting cast (love interest?, compatriot?), needs better stories and villains, etc.


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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

Moderator

Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556






    Quote:
    Again, I'm not saying that these cosmic books are bad, I just think they are good, and not great. I'd give them a C+ or a B-.



    Quote:
    These books simply have too many problems with them to be great. GotG needs a smaller cast, less subplots, needs to get rid of the interview narration idea, needs better stories and villains, etc. Nova needs a supporting cast (love interest?, compatriot?), needs better stories and villains, etc.


Not saying it to be confrontational, just honestly asking. Would you rate books like Hulk or New Avengers any higher? The cast in the Avengers books is not any less cumbersome, and Hulk.. that's a book that's been around how long with a single unanswered question (who is he?) and plot devices so insane they're cartoonish. They sell more, but do you really see them as a higher 'grade' of book?

People like what they like, nothing is wrong, just wondering if folks really find the big sales books to be all that good because I find them very lacking compared to things like Guardians or Nova.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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mjyoung





    Quote:
    Not saying it to be confrontational, just honestly asking. Would you rate books like Hulk or New Avengers any higher? The cast in the Avengers books is not any less cumbersome, and Hulk.. that's a book that's been around how long with a single unanswered question (who is he?) and plot devices so insane they're cartoonish. They sell more, but do you really see them as a higher 'grade' of book?


I would give New Avengers an A, and Hulk a B.

Red Hulk:

- Fun, where characters do things like smack the Watcher. It's enjoying.
- Great art, with guys like McG, Cho, and Adams.
- Great story ideas, like the Offenders vs the Defenders, Marvel's version of the Trinity, the Lady Liberators, etc.

New Avengers
- Great interaction with the main characters
- Characters that I love such as Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Clint, etc.
- Great story ideas, such as the team searching for the SS, fighting Elektra and the Hand in Japan, fighting the Hood, etc.
- Great use of continuity and connecting with the MU, like Brother Voodoo searching Strange's house the team, using little used characters like Echo, Sentry, and the Hood, Hellstorm trying to talk to his ex-wife.
- Great art, with guys like Tan, Bachalo, Yu, Finch, Immomen.

I don't care about Red Hulk's identity. It's only been 12 issues, so that's not too long. I can stick with Lost for years, I can stick with Red Hulk for a few more issues.

I disagree about GotG's cast, it is too cumbersome while NA is not. Let's name the cast of GotG: StarLord, Starhawk, Cosmo, Rocket Raccoon, Bug, Gamora, Drax, Jack Flag, Phylla, Groot, Major Victory, Warlock, Mantis, Moon Dragon? Plus there is speculation that the Starjammers might be joining up with them? Of course there are problems when you have a huge cast. You can only focus on so many subplots at a time, and there are too many subplots going on. I can only care about so many characters, and Jack Flag isn't going to make that cut.

The solution: tie up some subplots and get those characters out of there. Get rid of Major Victory and Starhawk and their stories, the book doesn't have time for them. Even NA gave us resolutions to their characters and put them out of the door.

While I would probably trim down NA's cast somewhat, most of their members don't require time for their own subplots running around. NA is team book so it tells team stories. GotG is a team book with too many side stories. Just make a list of how many subplots/side stories you can come up with for GotG.


    Quote:
    People like what they like, nothing is wrong, just wondering if folks really find the big sales books to be all that good because I find them very lacking compared to things like Guardians or Nova.


I think in GENERAL, there is a strong correlation between sales and quality. A Honda Accord is a great car, and it sales well. Dark Knight was good movie and it had high ticket sales. You'll probably find more success in getting the average person to enjoy New Avengers than Nova.

Here, I think you'll find that the only people who think that GotG and Nova are "great" books is if they are a fan of cosmic titles. I don't think the average reader thinks those books are great. I don't think a high percentage of people that read Nova also read Captain America.

Even in comics this is generally true, but there are some things to consider. Bad comics will lose sales, good comics will gain sales. You also have to consider total sales and not just monthly, so a series might have huge sales in collections (like Fables). Lots of other stuff as well.



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MysteryMan





    Quote:
    WOK is interesting but i found it not as great as the annihilations, maby it's because i'm not an x-fan or maby i just miss the cosmic charecters that took a back seat in the story.
    i'm not sure but it's just not that good.





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