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REED RICHARDS




DR will end in a few monthes but how?
who can stop norman?

CAP back to life organize a group consisting of the invaders, fury an spidey to confront osborn
it will seem to fail but somthing will happen to expose norman and send hi away replacing him with... D man! (well not realy but it will provably be with a good guy.

the sun will rise and the heroes rejoice until a new bad thing happen.

HOW would YOU do it?


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Abe


Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,977


I still believe Moon Knight's going to come in at the last minute and put a bullet into Norman.
The bullet won't kill him, but it will send him over the edge therefore exposing his lies to the general public.
The Dark Reign ends with Norman in disgrace, and the Avengers charter back to normal.
Tony then returns to lead the Avengers.
Within a few months Norman returns to the Spider-Man books, as the Green Goblin, deadlier than ever.


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Flint




Not sure how I would end it, but heres what I think will happen.

The return of Captain America goes public. The media hounds Norman over it. Spider-Man teases him. Osborn goes goblin-SH$% insane. Probably kill a hero in public/on camera.

Cap gets the exiled Thor and on the run Iron Man together to team up with the Secret Defenders....errrrr...Avengers and fight the Dark Avengers. Ares turns, Captain Marvel turns. Sentry watches and cries in the skies. He's conflicted cause Norman has been his 'friend'. Sentry reluctantly does something to Osborn then flies into space. The Avengers stand reunited! New Avengers becomes the Avengers again. Spidey and Wolvie quit.


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TJ Burns





My feelings?

Norman's insanity has been getting stronger since the beginning of Dark Reign. This is because Stark INTENTIONALLY left the Iron Man armor in his armory set to his brain patterns, deliberately to drive Norman more and more insane to keep him from gaining the power he craves and be able to use it effectively. (Otherwise, the Iron Patriot isn't up to par as an Iron Man armor, although Norman doesn't realize that.) As such, Norman's even more of a powderkeg than usual.

Dr. Doom, Namor, Loki, and the Hood have already created a sub-alliance that leaves Norman out of the loop.

Captain America's return, along with Tony's heroic sacrifice to destroy the SHRA database in Invincible Iron Man, and the fall from power that Thor has recently suffered causes them to meet up and begin to work through old wounds. Eventually, the big three resolve their issues, and reunite as the core of a new team of Avengers.

Harry Osborn goes public with what he's discovered his father is doing, including his murder attempt on Harry. This causes Norman to snap completely, at the same time that Doom and his alliance makes their move against him and Captain America's Avengers attack Norman's Dark Avengers directly. The whole battle ends up in a three way fight nationally televised showing all of Norman's dirty secrets to the world. Captain America's team wraps up the Cabal's attack, although Doom and Loki escape and Namor switches sides when he sees that Cap is the real deal. Norman attempts to murder Cap on national television, only to be stopped by Harry with a goblin-glider to the chest. Norman appears dead to the world, although, of course, we know he can survive that.

In the aftermath, SHIELD is reinstated under Captain America's leadership, with Harry Osborn as his Deputy Director. Stark regains his company and fortune. Peter Parker wins a major journalism prize for his photo of Norman during the battle. The reunited Avengers remain in seperate factions, depending on the level of threat that they face down, with the New Avengers led by Bucky Barnes.

Norman is seen recovering from his goblin-glider wounds and vowing vengeance, as he's hauled away to a secret SHIELD prison... just as the Punisher shoots him in the head from a mile away, with a sniper rifle.


TJB


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Vintersorg




I have a feeling that it will be the rebirth of Captain America, and he will bring Thor and Iron Man back together to bring down Ozborn. But when this happens Ozborn will trigger The Sentry to go competly nuts. Thus starting the next big "Event" You now have all the fighting heroes still at odds over Civil War having to ban together to take down The Sentry.




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Sandman


Member Since: Fri Oct 03, 2008



    Quote:
    My feelings?



    Quote:
    Norman's insanity has been getting stronger since the beginning of Dark Reign. This is because Stark INTENTIONALLY left the Iron Man armor in his armory set to his brain patterns, deliberately to drive Norman more and more insane to keep him from gaining the power he craves and be able to use it effectively. (Otherwise, the Iron Patriot isn't up to par as an Iron Man armor, although Norman doesn't realize that.) As such, Norman's even more of a powderkeg than usual.


I think Norman would have foreseen this and made the right adjustments.

Despite the stupid mistakes Tony has made, I doubt one of them is to make Norman more dangerous.

Norman still suffers from the psychological side effects of the Goblin formula, and despite the medication, the stress of "maintaining" the power he has now is getting to him.


    Quote:
    Dr. Doom, Namor, Loki, and the Hood have already created a sub-alliance that leaves Norman out of the loop.


Norman admitted that he doesn't fully trust the others.


    Quote:
    Captain America's return, along with Tony's heroic sacrifice to destroy the SHRA database in Invincible Iron Man, and the fall from power that Thor has recently suffered causes them to meet up and begin to work through old wounds. Eventually, the big three resolve their issues, and reunite as the core of a new team of Avengers.



    Quote:
    Harry Osborn goes public with what he's discovered his father is doing, including his murder attempt on Harry. This causes Norman to snap completely, at the same time that Doom and his alliance makes their move against him and Captain America's Avengers attack Norman's Dark Avengers directly. The whole battle ends up in a three way fight nationally televised showing all of Norman's dirty secrets to the world. Captain America's team wraps up the Cabal's attack, although Doom and Loki escape and Namor switches sides when he sees that Cap is the real deal. Norman attempts to murder Cap on national television, only to be stopped by Harry with a goblin-glider to the chest. Norman appears dead to the world, although, of course, we know he can survive that.



    Quote:
    In the aftermath, SHIELD is reinstated under Captain America's leadership, with Harry Osborn as his Deputy Director. Stark regains his company and fortune. Peter Parker wins a major journalism prize for his photo of Norman during the battle. The reunited Avengers remain in seperate factions, depending on the level of threat that they face down, with the New Avengers led by Bucky Barnes.


I doubt that would exactly happen since S.H.I.E.L.D. was suppose to be a U.N. organization while Hill seemed to be playing favorites with her own country which is probably why Black Widow refused to listen to her because of her character.

Cap will probably make sure that the Initiative is both legal and fair for the cadets since other laws were broken to support one law.

Harry will probably be glad to get his life back, while he may still be American Son or something since I believe he still has his Goblin formula abilities.


    Quote:
    Norman is seen recovering from his goblin-glider wounds and vowing vengeance, as he's hauled away to a secret SHIELD prison... just as the Punisher shoots him in the head from a mile away, with a sniper rifle.



    Quote:
    TJB





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Bubba2






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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


After a year or so of Norman doing rotten crap, and Spider-Man, Iron Man, and the heroes working to find proof of Osborn's double-dealings -- mindful that Osborn's Goblin past has been wiped from the record and can't be used against him -- they succeed, and confront Norman.

In a wide ranging-clash, Norman is forced to take on Iron Man as the Goblin, while Spidey tries to use Osborn's equipment to disseminate the info. (Osborn's proprietary OS is standard on all government machines now, making Osborn OS the only way to get information about the Dark Illuminati out there.) Osborn, wily and nutso, gives Stark a short run for his money despite the superiority of the IM armor, but in the end he's brought down physically. Osborn then laughingly reveals that his computer systems, being rigged by himself, Doom, et al. are basically set up with an AI program that's already sanitized all the dark deeds Spider-Man sent 'round.

But as Norman picks himself up to walk away, grinning, he's stuck standing still. And then Tony and Peter drop the real bomb: the information was never the weapon, since Osborn's proven he can simply get pardons and play the system however he likes. No, they're going to let him keep his nifty new job and perks and all of it.

The battle's real purpose was to let Tony infect Osborn with a variant nanochain like the one developed to keep Osborn's Thunderbolts in line.

And, Peter chimes in, "This one, I helped on. It bonds to the Goblin formula in your system. So sure, you can just flush it out...if you want to stop being the Goblin and go back to being 'Middle-Aged Man, Captain of Industry.' And what with the economy and all, that won't be fun."

So Norman is in charge...but the heroes can control him. And with their double agent in place, Iron Man and the rest can begin dissassembling the Dark Illumin




- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556


Just an MU citizen wake up call would do it. The real heroes release a few tidbits of footage they've gathered. Venom eating prostitutes and others while the other Dark Avengers sit around and joke about it. Norman conferencing with the Cabal, Bullseye murdering scores of police officers. It wouldn't take much, just a spark for the population to realize they've been totally hoodwinked and come to their senses (maybe there's something in the water? Is Osborn using the amplified Overmind? Something needs to be making the public this malleable)

Once there you could have the obligatory big fight scene, but the real 'end' to Dark Reign is rooted in exposing the mass murderers posing as heroes.






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mjyoung




Various thoughts on the subject.

Fans are horrible at guessing at how these things end. How many people saw "no more mutants" coming? or Osborn taking over Shield? Or Magneto as Xorn? Or Echo as Ronin? How many people saw the skrulls? And so on.

Fans are assuming that Osborn will be removed from Hammer, but I'm not so sure. If removed, Osborn really no longer has a place at the Cabal. What will you do with the character then, make him the GG again? Marvel is trying to evolve the character, but all fans want to see is regression.

Is Hammer/Osborn really going to have that short of a shelf life? Has Marvel already used up all the ideas there? What will happen to other titles like Secret Warriors, Dark Avengers, and so on? At some point, I'm sure Fury will become head of Shield, but is the time now?

Osborn became a Marvel Universe villain, moving away from just being a Spider-Man villain. I don't think Spider-Man will bring him down. Even now he is just an occasional villain for Spider-Man when they want a boost for the title.

Iron Man vs Osborn? Well Stark is in no position to battle him. Would people really care if that was the climax? Then again, he does have a movie coming out next year.

One way of looking at it is "which character does Marvel want to promote?". In that case, either Iron Man or Spider-Man would fit. IM because of his movie, and SM if only for a sales boost.

Captain America vs Osborn? Cap has alot on his plate coming back to life and all. It's an idea that everyone sees coming, and maybe it's a little too obvious.

New Avengers vs Osborn? Strong possibility since the title is heavily involved in the storyline. NA vs the DA team will be a big event. It also makes sense for the biggest property to be the focal point.

Reunited Big Three vs Osborn? Well they just did the Big Three reunion in SI somewhat. And one you do that, they have to be all together in the Avengers. I don't see that happening now, but probably closer to the movie in 2012.

Cabal vs Osborn? Well we've seen the others plotting against Osborn for a while. Hood and Loki. Loki and Doom. Doom and Namor. Namor and Emma. Wouldn't really be surprising, but it would easily turn into a melee with everyone betraying everyone else.

I just don't know, and really don't have a guess. I'm guessing it's going to be something none of us thought of. I'm not even sure I know how I would do it.


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Sandman


Member Since: Fri Oct 03, 2008


It does seem that Cap, Iron Man, and Thor will be together again.

I think it will begin with Cap being revealed that he's back, but Norman discredits this saying that the New Avengers are behind this and even uses the sightings of the 50's Cap to prove this.

Using an underground S.H.I.E.L.D. Base that was used during Civil War that H.A.M.M.E.R. knows nothing about, Cap manages to gather the Avengers teams, X-Men, and anyone else they could get to have a meeting to discuss on what they need to do. Some don't know whether they can trust Iron Man and one says that this “Dark Reign” is pretty much his creation since it isn't just his armor that Norman copied, but his methods which he went a step further with. That Norman simply took over. Cap tells them they don't have time for this and tells them and each of them have a part in this and reminds then that the reason Norman got this far is because he's a genius when it comes to strategy, manipulation, and thinking ahead. Since both the super-soldier serum and the Goblin formula increases intelligence, this will be a match between two extraordinary strategists who know the other will be after the other, and vise-versa, while Norman side has already started to crumble and the Green Goblin's voice has gotten louder inside Norman's head because of the stress that Norman has been feeling while “maintaining” the power he has gain and Namor notices this and remembers what Doom said about his “nature”.

Nick Fury, as well as the Howling Commandos and Secret Warriors, do their part to cripple H.A.M.M.E.R's strong points, while what Thunderbolt is with Black Widow 2 do their part in the purpose of weakening Norman's strong hold to the country, while the New Warriors, Young Avengers, and some X-Men cadets does the same to Camp H.A.M.M.E.R. to cut off Norman's access to super-powered cadets which they get some help from Diamondback and Trauma, while Taskmaster sees this as a good time to leave since he pretty much expected this to happen. Daredevil, Moon Knight, Rogue, Gambit, X-Factor, and O.N.E. take on the Hood and his syndicate.

To use the advantage of surprise, Cap has the New Avengers take on the Dark X-Men, while the X-Men take on the Dark Avengers, without Sentry and Captain Marvel, while making the Dark teams think that they'll be facing the other to get them off balance. Namor and Emma decide it's time to betray Norman which helps the New Avengers, as well as Cloak and Dagger who were being blackmailed since Dagger has a mother, while the “Thunderbolts” decide that it's time to leave and end this masquerade, while leaving Ares alone to fight the X-Men which leaves him enraged.

Cap, Thor, Iron Man, the Mighty Avengers, and three of the Fantastic Four head for Avengers Tower, while Mister Fantastic uses some equipment to make the security of the place useless to give them easy access. Norman manages to get Sentry, The Void, to get in their way and Thor stays behind to take him on. The Mighty Avengers and FF end up facing either the failed experiments of Norman's when he tried to combine the super-soldier serum with the Goblin formula, super-soldiers that he created using Weapon X files if he ever got them, or H.A.M.M.E.R. agents on gliders who have been exposed to the Goblin formula and have very powerful guns that a normal human couldn't handle.

While Cap and Iron Man are heading towards where Norman is, and after failing to contact Loki and Doom who he knows has abandoned him, as well as his forces being spit and defeated, he tells his son Harry, American Son, that it's time to be a man, while Harry speaks back by saying it's time that Norman start practicing what he preaches, because even before the Goblin, Norman has always been more of a leech then a man and then walks away to have his dad face this alone which puts even more stress to Norman while the Green Goblin in his head tells him that he's now all alone. When Cap and Iron Man arrive, they face Iron Patriot and some spider-slayers that he had required to fight them. While this is happening, Winter Soldier sneaks in to destroy the central computer of Avengers Tower that's linked to everything while getting unexpected help from Swordman. Cap and Iron Man manage to take down the spider-slayers, while Iron Man is too damaged to go on, leaving Cap to face Norman who's Armor is just as damage and has to rely on his Goblin formula abilities while still wearing the Iron Patriot helmet. The fight ends with Cap removing the helmet with his shield that reveals that Norman was wearing his Green Goblin mask underneath.



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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


More to the point, what you're saying, essentially, is that Dark Reign doesn't end. Presumably the "Dark Reign" has to refer to somethign going on, be it the Cabal meeting behind the scenes or to Norman running SHRA enforcement, and the end of that situation would be the end of Dark Reign.




- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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mjyoung





    Quote:
    More to the point, what you're saying, essentially, is that Dark Reign doesn't end. Presumably the "Dark Reign" has to refer to somethign going on, be it the Cabal meeting behind the scenes or to Norman running SHRA enforcement, and the end of that situation would be the end of Dark Reign.


I think people are making serious guesses, because of lot of these guesses have a good reasoning behind them. We know at some point the big three will get back together, we know that Cap is going to be pissed when he returns, we know that the Cabal is plotting against each other, etc. If I were placing bets on each outcome, I'd certainly give some of these guesses credible odds.

Dark Reign is a banner just like the Initiative was, and both described a general tone for the titles. The Initiative stories didn't end once the banners were removed, as the Initiative program is still active today. So I think that Dark Reign will be removed from the titles, and that general tone will be replaced with something else.

For instance, Marvel could create a new banner called "Rebellion", where the government has declared independent superheroes to be illegal, an extension of the SHRA. We've seen this in other comics, like Watchmen and even Powers. Every hero is give the choice of either becoming a full fledged agent of HAMMER, or forced to retire. No longer would heroes have the option of remain independent. So every hero that doesn't want to work for HAMMER and Osborn has to avoid capture. Of course, I'm just listing this as a possibility.

I think Osborn's position, HAMMER, the Cabal, the new Thunderbolts, the Dark Avengers, are all here to stay, at least until past December.


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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556


Of most things lately I find most of the fans assumptions or guesses to be much MORE entertaining than the actual outcomes of these 'events'. Because the fans look for a resolution, a story ENDING where as Marvel's newest and greatest plan is to make everything with a beginning, a middle, and a next beginning birthed from that middle \:\)

The fans look at the stories and try to establish a logical or at least exciting outcome. The error they make is they look at the story in a literary sense where Marvel is looking at the story as a marketing tool only and tries to milk it for every drop they can and then leak it into the next marketing tool. A good short term idea, but eventually the target group will grow weary of never having resolutions and give up on expecting them.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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Jase




I actually really like this resolution. Particularly this little tidbit -


    Quote:
    And, Peter chimes in, "This one, I helped on. It bonds to the Goblin formula in your system. So sure, you can just flush it out...if you want to stop being the Goblin and go back to being 'Middle-Aged Man, Captain of Industry.' And what with the economy and all, that won't be fun."





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emerick-man

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008





I miss you, Dan. I miss you, Dad. I miss you, Dan.
I miss you, Dad & Dan. I miss you Dad and Dan. Support Cancer Research.
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mjyoung





    Quote:
    Of most things lately I find most of the fans assumptions or guesses to be much MORE entertaining than the actual outcomes of these 'events'. Because the fans look for a resolution, a story ENDING where as Marvel's newest and greatest plan is to make everything with a beginning, a middle, and a next beginning birthed from that middle \:\)


Many of the fan speculation ideas are fun, but many of them just aren't practical. I really liked the theory that the Sentry was Thor.

I've personally been happy with many of the mystery reveals that Marvel has done. Echo was a good choice for Ronin. Osborn was a good choice for the Iron Patriot. Steve Rodgers coming back (instead of Black Cap). I might have made some changes, but nothing that really sticks out. Nothing I thought was a complete waste.


    Quote:
    The fans look at the stories and try to establish a logical or at least exciting outcome. The error they make is they look at the story in a literary sense where Marvel is looking at the story as a marketing tool only and tries to milk it for every drop they can and then leak it into the next marketing tool. A good short term idea, but eventually the target group will grow weary of never having resolutions and give up on expecting them.


As a business, of course Marvel is going to worry about the financial sense of any move.

But I think the main problem with fan speculation/ideas is that the fans don't actually think about how those ideas are going to be executed. Many fans have speculated that the Big Three are going to get back together and reunite the Avengers teams. So does that mean Marvel is going to get rid of New, Dark, and Mighty Avengers titles to have just one Avengers title? That doesn't make any sense. Then again, there are several fans who think Marvel should cancel New Avengers. There are even fans that fully beleive that John Bryne on Alpha Flight will be a high seller.

Marvel simply has to think about the execution of any idea. No matter what, that "next issue" has to come out. If the Big Three get back together, then what? If Steve Rodgers takes over Hammer, then what?

And of course, Marvel is actually made up of numerous people, from writers, to artists, to editors, etc. What does Brubaker want in response to Rodgers becoming in charge of Shield? What does the Avengers editor want to do with his titles?



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Kieran Frost





As mjyoung said, by "defeating" Osborn that basically would end Dark Avengers as well. And since, as I understand, it's doing very well (both commercially and critically); I hardly see Marvel pulling it. And why spend all this timing setting up such a great concept; which rejuvenates and constantly creates stories; to what? Go back to last 40yrs + of "Avengers are good hearted, kitten petting people". YAWN! This is change, people! I mean, remember how brief a time "no more mutants" lasted... oh wait ;\) The writers won't kill a story maker, which this is! That said:

I think "Dark Reign" will end when the "heroes" are not longer down and out. BUT I don't think they would rename S.H.I.E.L.D. = H.A.M.M.A.R. just to undo it in less than a year. I think Osborn will stay in charge, I think the Government will still allow his Dark Avenger to continue being heroes; but with a "Henry Peter Gyrich" that the Avengers had to deal with; one who questions things, removes and replaces members; and keep them on a leash. I also think they will be "unmasked" officially as Bullseye, as Venom, and so forth. BUT I don't think the public will suddenly hate them for it (after all, they are doing good as well).

I suppose I could see the Cabal collapse (with Doom and Namor ALREADY plotting, it can only be so long before a coup occurs), and Osborn must deal with Iron Man and Captain Selfrighteous ALSO being heroes; also having public support. And I think one team will move away from New York (probably the Mighty Avengers); and move to California (so they can constantly conflict with the Dark X-men). While the Dark Avengers and New Avengers clash in New York. Alas, I also think with the "end" of Dark Reign comes the "end" of Karla's run in the Ms. Marvel comics and Daken's run in Wolverine.

So, to sum up: I think Dark Reign will end with a stalemate on both sides. But I don't think it will be the end of Norman, or the Dark Avengers. AND I still think this is AT-LEAST a year away. \:\)



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TJ Burns





While I DO think Marvel's going to do a Big Three Avengers book, I DON'T think that'll lead to anything getting cancelled. I figure Marvel will either launch a FOURTH Avengers title, or will have them take over Pym's team. (New Avengers dealing with street-level crime like the Hood, Mighty dealing with world-beating threats, and the post-Norman Dark Avengers being either an espionage book or remaining a villain title.) Alternately, Dark Avengers might get cancelled and replaced with that book, leaving just 3 titles... I suppose it depends what the market will bear.

For my part, my comments on how I'd end Dark Reign aren't at ALL meant as a guess as to how it really would go down. Just how I'd do it myself.


TJB


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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


There are three formal Avenegrs books right now -- New, Dark, and Mighty.

And the Big Three are...uh...also...three.




- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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Nemo

, who is old enough to remember this.








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FirstChAoS




I admit, it is so tempting to say something like "punisher shoots norman dead" or "angry fans storm the marvel offices with torches and pitchforks" but none of those are good solutions (though I would like to see the latter).

Instead I think the BEST way to end dark reign is to have an insider on normans side expose taped security footage of his madness and extreme and questionable tactics to the media and through the internet.

At the same time cap, thor, and ironman (who should still be distrusted by the rest) form a REAL avengers taking on Norman and ridding the MU of fake avengers team giving the team name meaning again.

If the end results also include the return of the mutants powers, wolverine leaving the avengers, and bendis leaving the avengers I'll be happy.


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