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Lord Baytor

I really, really tried.



But after enduring "Fall of the Hulks" (and other crap going on with the Hulk), Siege, Sentry, and the "extreme" dumbing down of the Marvel U being passed off as the Heroic Age, I'm going to walk away from Marvel (though I am picking up the Thanos Imperative).

I intend to stick around until the end of the Cap/Black Panther series, but after that, I'm done. Iron Man is okay, but I don't really see the point of sticking around after a few more issues.


I'm sorry. I tried to give the Marvel mainstream U a second chance, but it's just not working for me, especially after the garbage being passed off as "major events" (*cough*Siege*cough*Hulk stuff*cough*).

Really, I tried, but it's not working out.






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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008






City of Heroes is BACK!
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Lord Baytor




NT


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katefan




I know how you feel. I walked away years ago around the time of Disassembled. Chuck Austen dumbed down the Avengers so Bendis could take over the team the way he wanted (I guess. Unless Austen is just a craptacular writer and did his own thing with the few issues given him) and I snorted with disgust when Hawkeye died about the dumbest death in comics.

Just a lot of crap going on all over the place, from the lame Hulk stuff to The Lizard eating his own kid, I am just really disillusioned with comics these days. Except for Atlas and Guardians of The Galaxy I give the rest of the MU (and most of the DCU) a pass.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


It's just that I haven't been enjoying as many Marvel books in years as I have the past 2-4 months.

The Avengers books are verious shades of great. Secret Avengers opened flawlessly, imo. Bendis' Avengers opened very well too. I'm not some Bendite, who thinks he can do no wrong; he drove me away after Secret Invasion, and I wasn't impressed with Siege (except for how it ended).

Atlas is great.

Fantastic Four has been better than its been in at least a decade. At the current rate, I wouldn't doubt if Hickman's run becomes known as a classic run.

Prince of Power (and Hercules before it) is very good. The Realm of Kings books were excellent.

The current X-Book crossover has been the best crossover that Marvel's had recently. Apart from the crossover, X-Men Legacy, X-Factor, and New Mutants have been great.

And last but not least, I never would have dreamed that I'd like a set of books like the Pet Avengers.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,972


his runs on both X-Men and Avengers are almost universally agreed to be crap. So in that case it is a bad writer.


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Nitz the Bloody






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fan4






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SEHS66




I have been "trying" marvel books on and off since a certain artist became editor-in-chief with not much luck. I have tried an X-Book here and there. An Avenger book here and there. The last book I tried was the Fantastic Four. Nothing is working for me. The only marvel book I ordered from Westfield Comics last month was the Hercules mini by Layton. I am hoping that as Disney takes more control of marvel things will get better.


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AJR




...or was it three?

I use that as an example for everything that's wrong with Marvel. They kept offering us this big juicy steak of possibilities they had no idea or no want to achieve. Geez, remember the classic story of a ressurected Spider-god that betrayed his friends, never used his brain, and made a pact to save his aunt by giving up his marriage?

No, me either.

It seems most stuff is 'I quit' or 'We're not doing that story anymore, it doesn't matter if people got killed, just forget it' and it never seemed to go anywhere.

I wouldn't say The Red Hulk is the best story ever, far from it, but atleast they seemed to go somewhere with it.


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Nitz the Bloody




The Marvel books of the present aren't going to be like the Marvel books of the past. They can't be evaluated on those criteria, and shouldn't be. Maybe it's worth reconsidering them based on a different perceptual standard?


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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,089



    Quote:
    The Marvel books of the present aren't going to be like the Marvel books of the past. They can't be evaluated on those criteria, and shouldn't be. Maybe it's worth reconsidering them based on a different perceptual standard?


SEHS66 did not even make clear what criteria s/he applied, but somehow you know that merely because of their cover-date Marvel's current books should be exempt from them? What a cop-out. You might as well say "you just haven't lowered your standards and expectations enough". Besides, it is not as if all Marvel's current titles are so "modern" or "avantgarde" that a completely different set of standards and criteria must be applied to them (assuming that argument was valid), they also do quite a bit of "retro" stuff, and not just in the "Forever" titles. The current Spider-Man for instance is by Marvel's own admission an attempt to recreate the 1970s and 1980s Spider-Man. And there are still a lot of writers from the pre-Quesada days working for Marvel whose writing (plotting and scripting) did not change so dramatically that a whole new perceptual standard needs to be applied.



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Nitz the Bloody





    Quote:
    SEHS66 did not even make clear what criteria s/he applied, but somehow you know that merely because of their cover-date Marvel's current books should be exempt from them? What a cop-out. You might as well say "you just haven't lowered your standards and expectations enough". Besides, it is not as if all Marvel's current titles are so "modern" or "avantgarde" that a completely different set of standards and criteria must be applied to them (assuming that argument was valid), they also do quite a bit of "retro" stuff, and not just in the "Forever" titles. The current Spider-Man for instance is by Marvel's own admission an attempt to recreate the 1970s and 1980s Spider-Man. And there are still a lot of writers from the pre-Quesada days working for Marvel whose writing (plotting and scripting) did not change so dramatically that a whole new perceptual standard needs to be applied.


I didn't say that SEHS66 should automatically like everything Marvel's writing, just that

A.) The standards used for judging modern Marvel books are different. Not necessarily lower or higher, but different. Trends in comic book writing, trends comic book illustration, the continuity the characters have accumulated, the way their history is re-interpreted by textual and extratextual factors, the shape of pop culture, and especially the target audience are substantially different now than they would have been ten years ago, and much different than they were 20 years ago.

B.) I'm familiar enough with SEHS66's posts to know that s/he hasn't liked any of the newer stuff Marvel's put out ( beyond the deliberately retro material ), but hasn't left the forums and doesn't contribute much to the discussions beyond complaining about how the books aren't as good as they used to be.

C.) Many of Marvel's current titles are different enough ( and I don't say " avantgarde ", but different ) from older Marvel storytelling methods that they deserve different modes of consideration. Daredevil, for example, hasn't been a traditional superhero comic in years-- all its writers have focused less on heroic adventure and more on simply destroying Matt Murdock, to the point where he doesn't even bother using a civilian identity. Ed Brubaker's Captain America reads more like an espionage story with superhero elements than a straight superhero story; the same can be said for Matt Fraction's Invincible Iron Man. The Ultimate books took drastic liberties reinterpreting or excising genre tropes. And Thor's pretty much dropped costumed vigilantism in his adventures, except when he happens to be in the area.


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SEHS66




My criteria is either I like them or I don't. What else is there?


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SEHS66




B.) I'm familiar enough with SEHS66's posts to know that s/he hasn't liked any of the newer stuff Marvel's put out ( beyond the deliberately retro material ), but hasn't left the forums and doesn't contribute much to the discussions beyond complaining about how the books aren't as good as they used to be.

You are more than welcome to avoid my post. That is what I will be doing with yours form now on.


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strokerace




aslong as you tried your best.........


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