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Author
Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



This guy has some really good points.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/22/jessica-jones-makes-me-question-the-point-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/

Marvel makes the best Super-Hero movies while DC Lags behind. No surprise there.

But on TV, DC dominates (at least for now) because at least they have a much better Cinematic Universe and aren't afraid to make direct references to others sharing the same universe while the opposite of that is true of Marvel.

Marvel, get it together and do better!





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

    This guy has some really good points.



    Quote:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/22/jessica-jones-makes-me-question-the-point-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/



    Quote:
    Marvel makes the best Super-Hero movies while DC Lags behind. No surprise there.



    Quote:
    But on TV, DC dominates (at least for now) because at least they have a much better Cinematic Universe and aren't afraid to make direct references to others sharing the same universe while the opposite of that is true of Marvel.


Cinema means movies, so the statement here confuses me quite a bit. Not sure what we are basing this on. DC has had better cartoons, apart from AEMH from Marvel.

Otherwise, I think Daredevil was outstanding and would take it over Flash or Arrow. I know some like those shows but meh. From the little I have seen this show is pretty good too. And one must keep in mind it is hard to tell when all of this is happening in context of time.

It really does not bother me that there are not always references. The movies do that and it is great but sometimes it is overbearing. Sure, making references is fun but I would rather focus on the quality of the show more than anything else. And really Marvel has not really put out an inferior product in terms of movies and TV since this thing started. I am not saying ever, just since the whole main universe thing. Some of the cartoons have not been great like the current Avengers.

Agents of SHIELD has been hit or miss but generally good, Carter is good and so on. I do not think they are doing bad or lagging far behind at all.


    Quote:
    Marvel, get it together and do better!


Because DC had to release TV shows about some of their characters instead of movies? Seems that Marvel is doing much better on the movie side. And are mainly releasing some of the more aside characters to the TVish side. Keep in mind Marvel is doing well with not even superhero characters on TV. That seems to say a fair bit right there.




Look Raist bunnies...
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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623


The point is to make money - and the MCU is doing that in a way that DC isnt even close to.

As for Marvels TV work, I think SHIELD sucks big time, but Daredevil was excellent and I am very impressed with Jessica Jones thus far.

Regarding how well the TV shows are intergrated with the movies, the critic has a point here. A0S idea of 'intergration' seems to consist of dropping a name every so often or referring to the fact there was an invasion of New York, and none of the other TV shows have really done any better so far.

What I would say is that its early days for he Marvel TV stuff, alsi Civil War may prove to be the watershed opportunity for intergrating the casts of both mediums.

On a personal note, I dont really want the likes of Daredevil to be tied to tightly to the MCU because ~Daredevil has always been better written when he was somewhat detached from the wider Marvel Universe.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Marvel's TV is better than DC's, imo. SHIELD has been no less than superb this season.

In all areas outside of Batman, DC seems to have simply stopped competing.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Reverend Meteor




To make money.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    The point is to make money - and the MCU is doing that in a way that DC isnt even close to.



    Quote:
    As for Marvels TV work, I think SHIELD sucks big time, but Daredevil was excellent and I am very impressed with Jessica Jones thus far.



    Quote:
    Regarding how well the TV shows are intergrated with the movies, the critic has a point here. A0S idea of 'intergration' seems to consist of dropping a name every so often or referring to the fact there was an invasion of New York, and none of the other TV shows have really done any better so far.


I think Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are bland to the extreme. Flash and Arrow are way better than both. But the Netflix shows Daredevil and Jessica Jones are better than the DC stuff partly because they can be violent, have sexual content and cursing.


Marvel should just cancel Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter and concentrate on the Netflix shows.



    Quote:
    What I would say is that its early days for he Marvel TV stuff, alsi Civil War may prove to be the watershed opportunity for intergrating the casts of both mediums.



    Quote:
    On a personal note, I dont really want the likes of Daredevil to be tied to tightly to the MCU because ~Daredevil has always been better written when he was somewhat detached from the wider Marvel Universe.





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zetadog




Marvel television shows seem like the producers are ashamed to have been based on comic books. they have relatively few super-powered characters. with 50 years of stories and characters to cherry pick, you'd think they would use more.

smallville ran for ten years and used nearly every major superman villain from the comics, before clark even became superman on the show.

the arrow and flash are doing pretty well.




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    Quote:
    Marvel's TV is better than DC's, imo. SHIELD has been no less than superb this season.


yuk.

Flash and Arrow are awesome. Agent of SHIELD is like watching paint dry. You have one good character and then you have everyone else who isn't Fitz.

Granted Daredevil is better than Flash and Arrow. But Agents of SHIELD isn't better. Agent Carter was equally dull.


    Quote:
    In all areas outside of Batman, DC seems to have simply stopped competing.





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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623


I liked Carter better than AoS, but yes, I agree that AoS is one of the dullest, most bland shows I've ever seen. Two entire seasons in and literally nothing exciting at all has happened.

It takes some real skill to make the worlds premier secret service organisation so mind-numbingly boring.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I liked Carter better than AoS, but yes, I agree that AoS is one of the dullest, most bland shows I've ever seen. Two entire seasons in and literally nothing exciting at all has happened.



    Quote:
    It takes some real skill to make the worlds premier secret service organisation so mind-numbingly boring.


For whatever reason the combination of super beings and espionage is boring. You can make a compelling show about one or the other but mixing them just leads to dullness.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I got fed up with Barry whining, so stopped watching Flash. And I absolutely hated what they were doing with Iris.

Felicity makes Arrow unwatchable to me.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623


Its really shouldnt be that difficult. I dont think its the mixing of the two ideas, its doing that *badly* that is the problem.

On the secret agent side of things, this is supposed to be SHIELD but all the tech weve got to show for that is a jet, a knock-out gun and some drones that you can buy in any toy shop. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's SHIELD would have a fantastic gadget ever couple of pages.

Then theres the costumes. I'm sorry, but a bunch of guys wearing suits or every day street wear just isnt interesting. I do a lot of cosplay stuff and see a lot of people dressing as Agents of SHIELD and I'm like 'No mate, thats just you wearing your dads suit. You look like youre on work experience'.

Then theres the characters. I dont know whether its the characters themselves or just poor acting, but none of them raise even the slightest interest for me. Firstly Coulson - the man who established himself as the 'nice but boring' one from the MCU movies isnt the man to lead a show. Then you have Fitz and Simmons - whose whole things is that their names combine to make another name. You have stereotypically British guy, who is about one inch away from being Dick Van Dyke, and stereotypical oriental kung-fu lady.

Regarding the super powered side of things, youve had Graviton and Absorbing Man, who should have been fairly impressive villains if done well. Its probably the limits of the special effects budget, but super powers are supposed to be highly visual and spectacular. Angar the Screamer is just a guy with killer hallitosis, and then there was the lady with the really bad nails.....The one thing they got right (eventually) was Mr Hyde, which was the combination of a decent actor with decent costume and make up effects.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Its really shouldnt be that difficult. I dont think its the mixing of the two ideas, its doing that *badly* that is the problem.



    Quote:
    On the secret agent side of things, this is supposed to be SHIELD but all the tech weve got to show for that is a jet, a knock-out gun and some drones that you can buy in any toy shop. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's SHIELD would have a fantastic gadget ever couple of pages.



    Quote:
    Then theres the costumes. I'm sorry, but a bunch of guys wearing suits or every day street wear just isnt interesting. I do a lot of cosplay stuff and see a lot of people dressing as Agents of SHIELD and I'm like 'No mate, thats just you wearing your dads suit. You look like youre on work experience'.



    Quote:
    Then theres the characters. I dont know whether its the characters themselves or just poor acting, but none of them raise even the slightest interest for me. Firstly Coulson - the man who established himself as the 'nice but boring' one from the MCU movies isnt the man to lead a show. Then you have Fitz and Simmons - whose whole things is that their names combine to make another name. You have stereotypically British guy, who is about one inch away from being Dick Van Dyke, and stereotypical oriental kung-fu lady.


I think Fitz is interesting (even if I do feel like the Fitz/Simmons romance is a straight rip off of Wesley and Winifred from Angel). The only other interesting character they ever had was Raina but then they ruined her exotic charm by making her look a blowfish.



    Quote:
    Regarding the super powered side of things, youve had Graviton and Absorbing Man, who should have been fairly impressive villains if done well. Its probably the limits of the special effects budget, but super powers are supposed to be highly visual and spectacular. Angar the Screamer is just a guy with killer hallitosis, and then there was the lady with the really bad nails.....The one thing they got right (eventually) was Mr Hyde, which was the combination of a decent actor with decent costume and make up effects.





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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I got fed up with Barry whining, so stopped watching Flash. And I absolutely hated what they were doing with Iris.


Iris got better once she stopped being a (eyeroll) blogger. Once she finally learned Barry's secret she became a lot less annoying. Same happened with Thea and Laurel on Arrow...they became a lot less annoying when they found out Oliver's secret.





    Quote:
    Felicity makes Arrow unwatchable to me.


Silver lining...she may die soon. They've been hinting at that all season.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

    This guy has some really good points.



    Quote:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/22/jessica-jones-makes-me-question-the-point-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/



    Quote:
    Marvel makes the best Super-Hero movies while DC Lags behind. No surprise there.



    Quote:
    But on TV, DC dominates (at least for now) because at least they have a much better Cinematic Universe and aren't afraid to make direct references to others sharing the same universe while the opposite of that is true of Marvel.


This is just wrong. Based on tv viewership numbers (for those shows for which this is available), Agents of SHIELD > Agent Carter > Gotham > Flash > Arrow. Based on critical acclaim (from aggregators Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic), Daredevil > Jessica Jones > Supergirl > Agent Carter > Flash > Agents of SHIELD > Gotham > Arrow. So Marvel has the two most watched tv shows and the two most acclaimed tv shows.





How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49xWJJvpjzI
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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

      Quote:

      This guy has some really good points.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/22/jessica-jones-makes-me-question-the-point-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Marvel makes the best Super-Hero movies while DC Lags behind. No surprise there.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            But on TV, DC dominates (at least for now) because at least they have a much better Cinematic Universe and aren't afraid to make direct references to others sharing the same universe while the opposite of that is true of Marvel.



    Quote:
    This is just wrong. Based on tv viewership numbers (for those shows for which this is available), Agents of SHIELD > Agent Carter > Gotham > Flash > Arrow. Based on critical acclaim (from aggregators Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic), Daredevil > Jessica Jones > Supergirl > Agent Carter > Flash > Agents of SHIELD > Gotham > Arrow. So Marvel has the two most watched tv shows and the two most acclaimed tv shows.


Can we get links to back up those assertions? (the viewership part not the acclaim part)



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      This is just wrong. Based on tv viewership numbers (for those shows for which this is available), Agents of SHIELD > Agent Carter > Gotham > Flash > Arrow. Based on critical acclaim (from aggregators Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic), Daredevil > Jessica Jones > Supergirl > Agent Carter > Flash > Agents of SHIELD > Gotham > Arrow. So Marvel has the two most watched tv shows and the two most acclaimed tv shows.


    Can we get links to back up those assertions? (the viewership part not the acclaim part)


The numbers come from Wikipedia for each show. I'll give them to you right here though with each number representing each season of the show in millions of viewers:

Agents of SHIELD: 8.31, 7.46    
Agent Carter: 7.61        
Gotham: 6.09        
Flash: 3.84        
Arrow: 3.68, 3.28, 3.52

It's not surprising that shows on ABC and CBS would do better than shows on CW in general though.




How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49xWJJvpjzI
Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Marvel television shows seem like the producers are ashamed to have been based on comic books. they have relatively few super-powered characters. with 50 years of stories and characters to cherry pick, you'd think they would use more.



    Quote:
    smallville ran for ten years and used nearly every major superman villain from the comics, before clark even became superman on the show.


I think Smallville had it's share of shame. They postponed putting Clark in the suit until the end of the series. Of course I'm one of the few fans who wanted it that way...I never wanted him to be Superman until the finale. But they drug the show out way too long.





    Quote:
    the arrow and flash are doing pretty well.


I like how they embrace the craziness of being in a world like that.





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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,994





    Quote:
    Felicity makes Arrow unwatchable to me.


*does a spit-take* Wuuuuh?? She's the only one on that show who isn't a dry block of wood.






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