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Nathan Summers


Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,402


Was it ever revealed who introduced Johnny Blaze to the occult, and what specific grimoire he read from to summon Mephisto?




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Iron Man Unit 007

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,633


Far as I recall it was just some other members of the carnival/cycle show that he and his Dad were with, they took him in after his Dad perished and slowly he was drawn into the occult.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Was it mephisto, satan, or someone else though?


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Nathan Summers


Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,402



    Quote:
    Far as I recall it was just some other members of the carnival/cycle show that he and his Dad were with, they took him in after his Dad perished and slowly he was drawn into the occult.

On some further checking, in Jason Aaron's series he went with the dull idea that upon arrival in a 'hole-in-the-wall' town, Barton and the Carnival found a dead man lying on the ground and instead of getting the police involved, they buried him but not before an occult book fell from his jacket that Johnny picked up. This would have been before he was 6 years old, as his father died when he was that old. SMH. That needs removing. The idea that someone in the carnival groomed Johnny, and was perhaps even responsible for getting his father out of the way is a much better idea.





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bd2999

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Originally it was Satan but it was retconned to Mephisto later due to the satanic panic of the 80's. It has mostly held until Way's run when they switched it back to Satan, but for the most part it is very loose and they seem to have the knowledge of the past and such.

I prefer just to think of it as Mephisto myself. As he fits better and has a longer history.

Satan varies from an entity that existed to one of legend to one that is really a group of devils that claim the title as is needed because mortals do not know the difference anyway.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Thought that he existed at one time, but was then broken up into mephisto, satanish, and others?


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bd2999

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


There are different origins for all such beings and could each be said to be a lie, but there is one similar to that but ignores that these being also existed at the same time. GR dealt with Satan in the 70's after SS was dealing with Mephisto.

There is some throne that they are fighting over, the Hell Lords, that is called Satan's throne or some such which implies that he was real and is gone now, but it was not flushed out too much other than it was a fight to have it and unite all of the evil underworld places.

He may well exist, I am just saying it is complicated. Mostly because of shifting explanations and requirements of stories and the real world in the first place.

I mean at one point when the Hell Lords became more prominent and Satan was ruled out it was the same time that things like dungeons and dragons had to stop calling their devils and demons by those names and switch them to something that did not draw ire.

Really, the confusing nature of it is somewhat fitting for beings that are built on lies and twisted deals in the first place.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


remember when they had Jesus show up to assist Blaze against Mephisto, but then back tracked that?


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Nathan Summers


Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,402



    Quote:
    remember when they had Jesus show up to assist Blaze against Mephisto, but then back tracked that?

Which is interesting when you consider Enoch, the seventh of the ten pre-Deluge Patriarchs was taken to Heaven before his death where he was transformed into an angel which involved his flesh being turned to flame, his veins to fire, his eye-lashes to flashes of lightning, his eye-balls to flaming torches.





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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


marvel seemed to on one hand squimish about jesus appearing in marvel in GR, but had no problems with him in Dracula!


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I'd barely call that an appearance. They've always been squeamish.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Marvel showed yahweh as being a fellow Skyfather, and also in Dr strange, Eternity mentioned supreme being was God!


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


That all parses to "squeamish." "God" doesn't necessarily mean what anyone thinks it does. It's just a general term.

And being with the Skyfathers is a massive kick to the balls that many would consider blasphemy.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Marvel seemed to be much more into allowing for God and jesus back decades ago then are at present time!


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