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Dark Marvel


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The Black Guardian

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I think the key word there is "major," and I don't think the current market supports it. It's extremely tough to even consider FF a major team these days. It's really just Avengers and X-Men, then the also-rans.

You want West Coast, you're kind of stuck with Runaways... until the next Agents of Atlas. ;\)

I don't really care about "major."
- Find a way to move all of the Champions kids to the West Coast.
- Power Pack just moved back to NYC (don't get why), but move them back.
- Ultimates could easily be in Cali, imo. It's closer to Kadesh.
- Too bad the Loners aren't still a thing.
- I also do not like all of the X-teams operating out of Krakoa.

But above all, I don't really think it matters where a team is stationed. The major ones are global. They can be anywhere at any time.




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The Silver Surfer


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


How about ANY other part of the country, for more than a little while.

There is a whole lot of country, and quite frankly, people have been moving out of New York recently. It is not going to be a Ghost time anytime soon... but you could use it to propel new eras, new stories, new status quo, all with new villains.

I know it was fun having them all bump into each other for a while, but it has gotten ridiculous now.

How have no villains noticed they only have to destroy ONE metropolitan area, and the vast majority of the super hero challenge is gone?


Move Thor to Minnesota, with all the Scandinavian Americans there, it could create some interesting stories. Mix in some folk lore.

Peter Parker has always broke, why has he and MJ not picked a cheaper city?

Iron Man was moved to Silicon Valley in the 80s, makes sense for him to be there. He would be worshiped there, and Stark would LOVE that.

Avengers in Chicago?

Daredevil in ANY less gentrified city?

Captain America in Washington D.C.? Philadelphia?

Carol Danvers in Texas? You know...near Houston. And Space flight.

Ghost Rider in New Orleans? That seems natural.

Wolverine leaving the X-Men and hanging out in New Mexico, Arizona, and the like seem cool.

U.S. Agent in Portland? That would be a hilarious book

Moon Knight in Miami?

This could be a simple way to have long established characters get new stories pretty easily. Different parts of the country have different flavors.


Let the kids have New York. The other heroes can carve out new adventures in other cities, and not have everyone either asking why the Avengers don't show up...or reading an Avengers story in Spider-Man.

I like New York. I lived there for a little while. A lot of great people. But, can we start doing stuff in other cities and states too?


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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    How have no villains noticed they only have to destroy ONE metropolitan area, and the vast majority of the super hero challenge is gone?

Pretty sure they noticed this 50+ years ago (at least). NYC has been threatened hundreds of times. It never works because the vast majority of the super hero challenge is there.

Better plan would be destroying the other places.

Plus, the truly smart villains don't really want to destroy.




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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,026



    Quote:
    How about ANY other part of the country, for more than a little while.



    Quote:
    There is a whole lot of country, and quite frankly, people have been moving out of New York recently. It is not going to be a Ghost time anytime soon... but you could use it to propel new eras, new stories, new status quo, all with new villains.



    Quote:
    I know it was fun having them all bump into each other for a while, but it has gotten ridiculous now.



    Quote:
    How have no villains noticed they only have to destroy ONE metropolitan area, and the vast majority of the super hero challenge is gone?



    Quote:

    Move Thor to Minnesota, with all the Scandinavian Americans there, it could create some interesting stories. Mix in some folk lore.


Don't know about that. Might make more sense for him to move to a Scandinavian country IMO, but then I'm not American and don't think one should limit oneself to parts of the U.S.


    Quote:
    Peter Parker has always broke, why has he and MJ not picked a cheaper city?


Well, they did plan to move to Portland, OR, at the end of the (second) Clone Saga. But as a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker (in-story he even speaks with a noticeable Queens accent) he would rather die than move to New Jersey. \:\-D (What a lot of people forget: Mary Jane was raised in Pennsylvania and, according to the OHOTMU, was born in Pittsburgh; it's just her aunt who lived in Forest Hills).


    Quote:
    Iron Man was moved to Silicon Valley in the 80s, makes sense for him to be there. He would be worshiped there, and Stark would LOVE that.



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    Avengers in Chicago?


Well, Thor lived there for a time (which was referenced in "Adventures in Babysitting").


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    Daredevil in ANY less gentrified city?


He and the Black Widow lived in San Francisco when the book was called "Daredevil and the Black Widow".


    Quote:
    Captain America in Washington D.C.? Philadelphia?



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    Carol Danvers in Texas? You know...near Houston. And Space flight.


I really wish writers made more play of her background as a New Englander (Bostonian, to be precise).


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    Ghost Rider in New Orleans? That seems natural.


Why? Because he's a supernatural hero and everything supernatural must be in the Big Easy? (Thank you, Anne Rice).


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    Wolverine leaving the X-Men and hanging out in New Mexico, Arizona, and the like seem cool.


Wouldn't that be a lot like "Outback era version 2.0"? (Also, with the Hulk's known propensity for the Southwest, wouldn't they keep running into him all the time?) Incidentally, the X-Men have lived in or near San Francisco more than once, and seemed to enjoy life there better than that in New York.


    Quote:
    U.S. Agent in Portland? That would be a hilarious book



    Quote:
    Moon Knight in Miami?



    Quote:
    This could be a simple way to have long established characters get new stories pretty easily. Different parts of the country have different flavors.



    Quote:

    Let the kids have New York. The other heroes can carve out new adventures in other cities, and not have everyone either asking why the Avengers don't show up...or reading an Avengers story in Spider-Man.



    Quote:
    I like New York. I lived there for a little while. A lot of great people. But, can we start doing stuff in other cities and states too?





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The Silver Surfer


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

    Move Thor to Minnesota, with all the Scandinavian Americans there, it could create some interesting stories. Mix in some folk lore.



    Don't know about that. Might make more sense for him to move to a Scandinavian country IMO, but then I'm not American and don't think one should limit oneself to parts of the


A non-America based superhero? Ridiculous.



    Quote:
    Well, they did plan to move to Portland, OR, at the end of the (second) Clone Saga. But as a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker (in-story he even speaks with a noticeable Queens accent) he would rather die than move to New Jersey. \:\-D (What a lot of people forget: Mary Jane was raised in Pennsylvania and, according to the OHOTMU, was born in Pittsburgh; it's just her aunt who lived in Forest Hills).


I liked that mini-series.

There are places besides New Jersey and Portland he could pick from.



    Quote:
    He and the Black Widow lived in San Francisco when the book was called "Daredevil and the Black Widow".


I said less gentrified, not more. Modern San Fran lacks the grit a DD story needs.

Not to mention, even with Matt's impressive career, I don;t think he could make rent.

Hell, even back then he had to live off Nat, if memory serves.



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    I really wish writers made more play of her background as a New Englander (Bostonian, to be precise).


That would be interesting. Especially if they start writing out the accent.

There is even a potential Lovecraft angle they could do there.


    Quote:
    Why? Because he's a supernatural hero and everything supernatural must be in the Big Easy? (Thank you, Anne Rice).


That reputation is much older than Anne Rice. They have played up the mystery and voodoo angle to tourists forever. They even give tours of cemeteries.

The city has a million ghost stories, and they love their local legends more than just about anywhere else in America.

Not to mention the stereotype of sin and vice.

Marvel eve had a supernatural character based in the area back in the 70s...The Zombie.



    Quote:
    Wouldn't that be a lot like "Outback era version 2.0"? (Also, with the Hulk's known propensity for the Southwest, wouldn't they keep running into him all the time?) Incidentally, the X-Men have lived in or near San Francisco more than once, and seemed to enjoy life there better than that in New York.


I am thinking of it more like a western series. Claremont has even said he was partially inspired by Clint Eastwood at times when writing Wolverine.




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The Silver Surfer


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Pretty sure they noticed this 50+ years ago (at least). NYC has been threatened hundreds of times. It never works because the vast majority of the super hero challenge is there.


One unplanned space laser from the Skrulls and the world is theirs.




    Quote:

    Better plan would be destroying the other places.

    Plus, the truly smart villains don't really want to destroy.


Exactly, there are no smart villains in the Marvel universe.

The hardcore ones could just team up and obliterate the city. Mageneto has already reprogrammed sentinels in the past. Head to a factory, do teh same, show up with a few hundred, and carpet bomb NYC, and the problem is solved.

Dr. Doom could mystically send the city to the sun. That might start a war with the U.S., but a lot of things he has done should have.

Apocalypse could take control of nukes and send them to one place. One nuclear weapon, and the world is his in an afternoon.


As for the lower level ones... so long as all the heroes are in one city, they are the dumbest of the lot.

Hit like five banks in Indiana, Kentucky, and Tennessee, and you are set for life.

You want to be Kingpin? Go to Seattle with your superpower and super-weapons.
,
For all the talk of Marvel being "the world outside your window," this one choice strains credulity far more than a guy with Spider-powers, mutant powers, or a billionaire using his tech to help people.



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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,026


Sorry, my reply yesterday was eaten by the spam-blocker...


    Quote:


      Quote:
      Well, they did plan to move to Portland, OR, at the end of the (second) Clone Saga. But as a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker (in-story he even speaks with a noticeable Queens accent) he would rather die than move to New Jersey. \:\-D (What a lot of people forget: Mary Jane was raised in Pennsylvania and, according to the OHOTMU, was born in Pittsburgh; it's just her aunt who lived in Forest Hills).



    Quote:
    I liked that mini-series.



    Quote:
    There are places besides New Jersey and Portland he could pick from.


I guess so, but it would run into trouble because of the secret identity. Spider-Man could commute from New Jersey (like the Wasp and Kamala Khan), but further afield people would ask: "Isn't it a strange coincidence that our new acquaintance Peter Parker moved here from New York exactly at the same time as New York superhero Spider-Man?"


    Quote:


      Quote:
      He and the Black Widow lived in San Francisco when the book was called "Daredevil and the Black Widow".



    Quote:
    I said less gentrified, not more. Modern San Fran lacks the grit a DD story needs.



    Quote:
    Not to mention, even with Matt's impressive career, I don;t think he could make rent.



    Quote:
    Hell, even back then he had to live off Nat, if memory serves.


Not sure about that. He was a respected lawyer, and AFAIK, San Francisco was a bit more "affordable" back then.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Why? Because he's a supernatural hero and everything supernatural must be in the Big Easy? (Thank you, Anne Rice).



    Quote:
    That reputation is much older than Anne Rice. They have played up the mystery and voodoo angle to tourists forever. They even give tours of cemeteries.


What I was thinking of was that thanks to Anne Rice people now associate supernatural stuff that in its origins has nothing much to do with New Orleans and Louisiana with these places. Vampires, after all, are very much rooted in south-east European folklore, and given their modern form by authors from the British Isles.


    Quote:
    The city has a million ghost stories, and they love their local legends more than just about anywhere else in America.


Well, yeah, but I see no real connection between any of the Ghost Riders and New Orleans supernatural traditions. Not sure if any one of them even speaks French. ;\-\)

For the homegrown stuff (much of which has African roots), it probably would be better to have a character from the area or someone rooted in a related tradition. For instance, in the 1970s there was Brother Voodoo, a transplanted Haitian.


    Quote:
    Not to mention the stereotype of sin and vice.


Which they just love in New Orleans, as seen by their reaction to that Simpsons episode... ;\-\)


    Quote:
    Marvel eve had a supernatural character based in the area back in the 70s...The Zombie.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


The thing is, there are thousands of supers that are not in NYC. Heck, maybe a million. Plus, all of the hidden races that number in the millions. The idea that New York is the end-all-be-all is a fallacy. The books just don't focus on anything but New York most of the time.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Even the kids, Laura (Wolverine/X-23) and Gabi (Honey Badger), had an apartment on Roosevelt Island not long ago. Not sure if they still have that apartment to crash. Average rent on Roosevelt -- only about $3400 a month. Pocket change. /s

There are cheaper places to live on Manahattan, like Lennox, Inwood, Harlem, Wash. & Hamilton Heights, and a few others. Average rent in those places is like $1000 or more under Roosevelt.

I think if Peter moved to a more affordable area, it would ruin his character. Plus, him swinging through all of those skyscrapers is a must.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Why? Because he's a supernatural hero and everything supernatural must be in the Big Easy? (Thank you, Anne Rice).



    Quote:
    That reputation is much older than Anne Rice. They have played up the mystery and voodoo angle to tourists forever. They even give tours of cemeteries.



    Quote:
    The city has a million ghost stories, and they love their local legends more than just about anywhere else in America.



    Quote:
    Not to mention the stereotype of sin and vice.



    Quote:
    Marvel eve had a supernatural character based in the area back in the 70s...The Zombie.


Indeed. Marie LaVeau? Loup garou? Rice didn't really start the vampire lore of New Orleans, either. She just used it to her advantage. We have vampires going back to the 1700s.

We have all kinds of urban myth legends in this city going back to the Native Americans that founded area long before Europeans. New Orleans was once the biggest port in the US, getting lore from all over the world. We even have one legend about a Middle Eastern djinn that killed an exiled Turk. We're not just Cajuns/French down here -- we have Africans, Germans, Italians, Vietnamese, Spanish, Greeks, East Europeans, and more that brought their cultural folklores with them.

Circa 1900, we had a Jason-style serial killer called The Axeman. Some supernatural element got attached to him too. Some think he was able to escape a locked room through a mouse-hole or something.

And swamp monsters! Oooeee. Our own chupacabra, even.

Not all supernatural either. We have stories of "black bottle men" mad scientists that would go around sticking random people (usually ex-slaves) with needles on which to experiment.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Louisiana and New Orleans are more than just French. We've got a sizable SE European population, as well. Irish, German, and Italians are the big 3 after French, but we also have huge populations of Greek and Vietnamese (there might be just as many Vietnamese fisherman as French at this point).

As for GRs, they've stopped being stuck to that one family line for a while now. These days, we have GRs that are Native American, Asian, ancient Norse, Russian, Atlantean(?), Thulean, Moari, German, Mayan, Druid, Philistine, Muslim, Hindu, Irish, Tibetan, African... you name it.

So why not French? Cajun chef? Blackened Voodoo GR? Give him a flaming pirogue or have him ride a giant flame-spewing gator.




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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,026



    Quote:
    Louisiana and New Orleans are more than just French. We've got a sizable SE European population, as well. Irish, German, and Italians are the big 3 after French, but we also have huge populations of Greek and Vietnamese (there might be just as many Vietnamese fisherman as French at this point).


That is all very well, but not enough of a reason to set a story in New Orleans instead of New York. If you want to do a story involving Irish, German, Italian, Greek and/or Vietnamese Americans you could set it in pretty much any major US city. When people reflect on things that are specific to Louisiana and New Orleans, they are not going to think of the local German or Irish communities in the way people e.g. will think "Amish" and "Pennsylvania Dutch" if you ask them about Pennsylvania, the Prohibition-era Italian and Irish mobs re. Chicago, or of the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, Cajun cuisine, Marie Laveau, Voodoo and the birth of Jazz if you ask them about the Crescent City.


    Quote:
    As for GRs, they've stopped being stuck to that one family line for a while now. These days, we have GRs that are Native American, Asian, ancient Norse, Russian, Atlantean(?), Thulean, Moari, German, Mayan, Druid, Philistine, Muslim, Hindu, Irish, Tibetan, African... you name it.



    Quote:
    So why not French? Cajun chef? Blackened Voodoo GR? Give him a flaming pirogue or have him ride a giant flame-spewing gator.


I never really read Ghost Rider, mostly just Johnny Blaze's guest-appearances in other titles, so I had only skimmed through the wikipedia article, which concentrated on Johnny Blaze, Danny Ketch, and Robbie Reyes. Not sure if the others you mention really were nearly that important, so did any of them e. g. headline their own title for an appreciable time or do more to provide additional history for the other Ghost Riders' background? But it seems like we're talking of essentially coming up with a new or at any rate unproven character, not of moving an established one to Louisiana.





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Kyle M. Bastian


Member Since: Fri Jul 06, 2018


I wish there was still the West Coast Avengers. I'm talking about the team which featured Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Tigra, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Thing, Firebird, Doctor Pym, Moon Knight, Wasp, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Mantis, USAgent, Human Torch, Quicksilver, Machine Man, the Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman, Living Lightning, Darkhawk, and War Machine. It could have had other prominent West Coasters like Werewolf, Ghost Rider, and the Bill Foster Giant-Man, but it was cancelled in 1994.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Louisiana and New Orleans are more than just French. We've got a sizable SE European population, as well. Irish, German, and Italians are the big 3 after French, but we also have huge populations of Greek and Vietnamese (there might be just as many Vietnamese fisherman as French at this point).



    Quote:
    That is all very well, but not enough of a reason to set a story in New Orleans instead of New York. If you want to do a story involving Irish, German, Italian, Greek and/or Vietnamese Americans you could set it in pretty much any major US city. When people reflect on things that are specific to Louisiana and New Orleans, they are not going to think of the local German or Irish communities in the way people e.g. will think "Amish" and "Pennsylvania Dutch" if you ask them about Pennsylvania, the Prohibition-era Italian and Irish mobs re. Chicago, or of the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, Cajun cuisine, Marie Laveau, Voodoo and the birth of Jazz if you ask them about the Crescent City.


Sure. You could. But why would you? \:P

You're basically just saying we could continue to adhere to racial/ethnic stereotypes, or we could be more authentic. Why the former? Rhetorical question, because there's no valid reason.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      As for GRs, they've stopped being stuck to that one family line for a while now. These days, we have GRs that are Native American, Asian, ancient Norse, Russian, Atlantean(?), Thulean, Moari, German, Mayan, Druid, Philistine, Muslim, Hindu, Irish, Tibetan, African... you name it.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        So why not French? Cajun chef? Blackened Voodoo GR? Give him a flaming pirogue or have him ride a giant flame-spewing gator.



    Quote:
    I never really read Ghost Rider, mostly just Johnny Blaze's guest-appearances in other titles, so I had only skimmed through the wikipedia article, which concentrated on Johnny Blaze, Danny Ketch, and Robbie Reyes. Not sure if the others you mention really were nearly that important, so did any of them e. g. headline their own title for an appreciable time or do more to provide additional history for the other Ghost Riders' background? But it seems like we're talking of essentially coming up with a new or at any rate unproven character, not of moving an established one to Louisiana.


They're mostly flashback characters that show the history of Ghost Riders. None of them have anything in the way of personalities. Just wallpaper. We just know there are Ghost Riders seemingly everywhere. There might even be Skrull and Kree Ghost Riders. Never know...




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zeus


Location: Plano, IL
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Yup. That was my first regularly collected title. I’ll always have a soft spot for the Whackos…


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