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nonameatall




As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?

I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.


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Ned Leeds Jr.




> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?

The Jackal, Hammerhead, Punisher, and others who were huge at the time, made their debut in the 70's.


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Edward Whelan




> > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> The Jackal, Hammerhead, Punisher, and others who were huge at the time, made their debut in the 70's.

Richard Fisk (Schemer, Rose, Blood Rose)
Black Cat
Tarantula

All Pretty Big (and I would count Green Goblin (Harry) and Mysterio (Beckhart) as 2 more major villans from the 70's because they became dynamic characters (unlike Vulture (Drago) and other such rip-offs.)


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Spiffy




> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.

What about the occasional villain who became bigger way after his or her debut?

For example, Kraven The Hunter first appeared in 1964 (Amazing 15) but his heyday was the 80s I think--a time period where his character had a huge effect.




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Spiffy




> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.

Oh. would Kaine count as a huge villain? That would put one firmly in the 1990s.

Kraven, as I've already mentioned in another post, was "born" in the 60s but not really big until the 80s.

The endless series of Spider-Slayers, built first by father Spencer Smythe and later by the son Alistaire, also dates from the 60s. Individually none of them was ever that big a deal, but they were SO consistently used they have to be acknowledged.

Rhino is another from the 60s, but he's one of the villains who has more often been portrayed as a fool rather than truly dangerous.

Sineater, from deep in the 1980s, may deserve an Honorable Mention as a kind of "almost major villain", even though he was only in two runs of issues, because while far from the most deadly enemy for Spidey, he had one of the most profound effects on his life by any villain NOT named either Osborn or Stark.

The best the 00's can do is Morlun. Blech. Morbius (from the early 70s) was more interesting.


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GammaSpidey




Hobgoblin was a pretty big deal in the '80s. As was Tombstone.

Notable '70s villains: Hammerhead, Jackal, Man-Wolf, Morbius


> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.


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Omar Karindu




He was pretty big in the 1960s, too, appearing in three Ditko stories and another three arcs under Stan with John Romita and Gil Kane. That's more often than Electro managed to appear in the Spider-books during their first decade.

What happened to Kraven? He became more of an MU villains. The 70s set him against various jungle and animal-themed heroes, like Ka-Zar and Tigra, and gave him a couple of matches against Daredevil to boot. The long absence from Spidey's books was what made him seem like a bit player in the 80s...that, and an early 1980s story by Denny O'Neil that portrayed him rather weakly.

> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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The Green Ninjas




> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.

This should be enough of a start of a villains-by-decade list:

60s:
Chameleon
Vulture
Doctor Octopus
Sandman
Lizard
Electro
Mysterio
Green Goblin
Scorpion
Smythe/Spider Slayers
Beetle
Molten Man
Shocker
Rhino
Kingpin

I'm not entirely certain if Silvermane and Richard Fisk fall under late-60s or early-70s at the moment. Boomerang and Speed Demon both debuted in the 60s, but I don't think either became Spidey villains until later.

70s:
Hammerhead
Green Goblin (Harry Osborn and Bart Hamilton)
Jackal
Punisher
Stegron
Swarm
Carrion
Tarantula
Hydro-Man(?)

80s:
Tombstone
Puma
Hobgoblin
Jack O'Lantern/Hobgoblin
Sin-Eater
Venom
Calypso
Alistair Smythe
Carrion II
Tri-Sentinel
Foreigner

90s:
Carnage
Shriek
Demogoblin
Doppleganger
Grim Hunter
Traveller
Scrier
Kaine
Spidercide
Doctor Octopus II
Kraven Jnr
Mad Jack
Senator Ward

00s:
Morlun
Shathra
Ezekiel
Digger
The Stacy Twins
Fusion
Tracer


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Web_Spinner




My list is based on when they were impact players, SPidey's biggest threat, not when they first appeared!

1960s: Green Goblin - Learns Spidey's secret ID. Without that, he was merely another villain. With this, the future havoc Norman plays doesn't happen.

1970s: Doctor Octopus - Death of Captain Stacey. Pete loses yet another Father figure, his girlfriends dad no less.

1980s: Hobgoblin/Kraven - The mystery of the hobgoblin. 'nuff said. Kraven's last hunt. Ditto.

1990s: Venom - The last true classic original villain. Popularity still looms as evident by the hype around Spider-man 3.

2000s: Morlun - Present for the biggest changes in Spideys modern life. Responible for the beating that left Pete so exhausted that his spidersense wasn't able to warn against Aunt May discovering the ID. Also major player in his 'death' and evolution.





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Spiffy




> > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
> >
> > I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.
>
> This should be enough of a start of a villains-by-decade list:
>
> 60s:
> Chameleon
> Vulture
> Doctor Octopus
> Sandman
> Lizard
> Electro
> Mysterio
> Green Goblin
> Scorpion
> Smythe/Spider Slayers
> Beetle
> Molten Man
> Shocker
> Rhino
> Kingpin
>
> I'm not entirely certain if Silvermane and Richard Fisk fall under late-60s or early-70s at the moment. Boomerang and Speed Demon both debuted in the 60s, but I don't think either became Spidey villains until later.
>
> 70s:
> Hammerhead
> Green Goblin (Harry Osborn and Bart Hamilton)
> Jackal
> Punisher
> Stegron
> Swarm
> Carrion
> Tarantula
> Hydro-Man(?)
>
> 80s:
> Tombstone
> Puma
> Hobgoblin
> Jack O'Lantern/Hobgoblin
> Sin-Eater
> Venom
> Calypso
> Alistair Smythe
> Carrion II
> Tri-Sentinel
> Foreigner
>
> 90s:
> Carnage
> Shriek
> Demogoblin
> Doppleganger
> Grim Hunter
> Traveller
> Scrier
> Kaine
> Spidercide
> Doctor Octopus II
> Kraven Jnr
> Mad Jack
> Senator Ward
>
> 00s:
> Morlun
> Shathra
> Ezekiel
> Digger
> The Stacy Twins
> Fusion
> Tracer

Great list. I think it needs only Morbius, in the 1970s column. Maybe also Silver Sable (who wasn't a villain per se but definitely had conflict with Spidey). She was mid-1980s.

Some of those I wouldn't count as "major villains" though, but for the most part its better to um... overspec a villain than under-spec one I guess.

Also, I wonder where someone like Doom would fit. He didn't debut in a Spider-Man book but was a major villain for him on a few occasions.


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The Green Ninjas




> > > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
> > >
> > > I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.
> >
> > This should be enough of a start of a villains-by-decade list:
> >
> > 60s:
> > Chameleon
> > Vulture
> > Doctor Octopus
> > Sandman
> > Lizard
> > Electro
> > Mysterio
> > Green Goblin
> > Scorpion
> > Smythe/Spider Slayers
> > Beetle
> > Molten Man
> > Shocker
> > Rhino
> > Kingpin
> >
> > I'm not entirely certain if Silvermane and Richard Fisk fall under late-60s or early-70s at the moment. Boomerang and Speed Demon both debuted in the 60s, but I don't think either became Spidey villains until later.
> >
> > 70s:
> > Hammerhead
> > Green Goblin (Harry Osborn and Bart Hamilton)
> > Jackal
> > Punisher
> > Stegron
> > Swarm
> > Carrion
> > Tarantula
> > Hydro-Man(?)
> >
> > 80s:
> > Tombstone
> > Puma
> > Hobgoblin
> > Jack O'Lantern/Hobgoblin
> > Sin-Eater
> > Venom
> > Calypso
> > Alistair Smythe
> > Carrion II
> > Tri-Sentinel
> > Foreigner
> >
> > 90s:
> > Carnage
> > Shriek
> > Demogoblin
> > Doppleganger
> > Grim Hunter
> > Traveller
> > Scrier
> > Kaine
> > Spidercide
> > Doctor Octopus II
> > Kraven Jnr
> > Mad Jack
> > Senator Ward
> >
> > 00s:
> > Morlun
> > Shathra
> > Ezekiel
> > Digger
> > The Stacy Twins
> > Fusion
> > Tracer
>
> Great list. I think it needs only Morbius, in the 1970s column.

I had a nasty feeling I'd forgotten someone important, and Morbius sounds about right. Now that I think of it, maybe Black Tarantula and the 5th Green Goblin for the 90s, too. Beyonder and Firelord for the 80s, maybe?

> Maybe also Silver Sable (who wasn't a villain per se but definitely had conflict with Spidey). She was mid-1980s.

I'm not really sure if I'd include her as a villain myself.

> Some of those I wouldn't count as "major villains" though, but for the most part its better to um... overspec a villain than under-spec one I guess.

In general, I wanted to go for any "major" or "recurring" foe, and just threw in a few others of note to bulk out some of the decades. Almost included Facade just to freak people out.

> Also, I wonder where someone like Doom would fit. He didn't debut in a Spider-Man book but was a major villain for him on a few occasions.

Well, they first met in the 60s, so if you want him on the list, that's where he goes. In retrospect, I probably should've added him.


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DXD




Hmmm...if I had to pick THE major villain of each decade, I think it would be:

1960's - Green Goblin
1970's - Dr. Octopus (I can't go with Harry or Jackel since their villain appearances were sparse).
1980's - Hobgoblin (with Bill Mantlo's Doc Ock as second place \:\-\) )
1990's - Venom
Post 2000 - No real one villain sticks out to be honest, so I'll go with Norman.

> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.


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DXD




I really liked Kraven's initial appearances...ASM15 is one of my fav reads, but to be honest he didn't do much for me in between the 60's stories and Kravens Last Hunt. I thought in between he was portrayed as very weak.

> For example, Kraven The Hunter first appeared in 1964 (Amazing 15) but his heyday was the 80s I think--a time period where his character had a huge effect.
>
>


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Spidey Cridey




> My list is based on when they were impact players, SPidey's biggest threat, not when they first appeared!
>
> 1960s: Green Goblin - Learns Spidey's secret ID. Without that, he was merely another villain. With this, the future havoc Norman plays doesn't happen.

Agreed- Great stories and the greatest villain Spidey ever faced.

> 1970s: Doctor Octopus - Death of Captain Stacey. Pete loses yet another Father figure, his girlfriends dad no less.

Agreed- the romance with Aunt May was also great stuff, a personal vote of mine is also HAMMERHEAD...
>
> 1980s: Hobgoblin/Kraven - The mystery of the hobgoblin. 'nuff said. Kraven's last hunt. Ditto.

Forget Kraven, Hobby is the way to go. All those stories 238-239, 245, 249-251, 275-276...come on HOBGOBLIN ALL THE WAY!!!!!
>
> 1990s: Venom - The last true classic original villain. Popularity still looms as evident by the hype around Spider-man 3.

One word- VENOM
>
> 2000s: Morlun - Present for the biggest changes in Spideys modern life. Responible for the beating that left Pete so exhausted that his spidersense wasn't able to warn against Aunt May discovering the ID. Also major player in his 'death' and evolution.

Do they even make Spidey comics anymore outside of the MOVIE???? Thats how bad I think the stories are today...lol



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Crazy Penguin




It's intersting how many derivative villains there are in later decades, especially the 1990s. Another Venom, another Goblin, two more Kravens, three evil Spider-Men, another Jack O'Lantern. Yeesh!


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Smithville Thunderbolt




> Do they even make Spidey comics anymore outside of the MOVIE???? Thats how bad I think the stories are today...lol

Yes, they are currently putting out 10 a month. It's rather surprising to me that you would find them all bad.


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GammaSpidey




That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.





> As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
>
> I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.


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Spidey Cridey




> > Do they even make Spidey comics anymore outside of the MOVIE???? Thats how bad I think the stories are today...lol
>
> Yes, they are currently putting out 10 a month. It's rather surprising to me that you would find them all bad.

Are you serious, lmaooooo. My point exactly. With that more = LESS. Was better when there was 2 stories a MONTH, more to explore. Come on...


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Spiffy




> That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
>

Kaine is the last REALLY good major new baddie I can recall. Carnage was derivative of Venom, so he doesn't really count.


>
>
>
> > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
> >
> > I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.


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AJ




> > That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
> >
>
> Kaine is the last REALLY good major new baddie I can recall. Carnage was derivative of Venom, so he doesn't really count.

There have been a lot of POTENTIAL major baddies introduced in the last 10 years, but none of them have been followed up on and turned into a major new threat.

Morlun - great first story, disappointing and unexplained appearance in "The Other".

Fusion - great first story, but then never heard of again.

Tracer - quite a good first story, but kinda got lost in "The Other".

Shathra - personally I enjoyed her story, great visual and cool method of taunting Peter. Never heard from again and presumed dead.

Ezekial - interesting introduction and some good stories along the way, but then a slightly disappointing final story. Presumed dead so probably not gonna be seen again.

Stacy Twins - controversial introduction story, terrible follow-up. Marvel might just try and forget them, but we probably should hear more from them as Sins Past deserves to be revisited.


I think Fusion, Tracer, Morlun and Shathra could all have new and interesting stories told about them. If the stories are good then over time people will start to think of them as potential new major baddies, but it will take time and good storytelling.

I suspect PAD will feature Tracer again, and hopefully give the readers some time to focus on him rather than a crossover story.

AJ



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Omar Karindu




The longer any superhero is around, the more and more the new additions to the rogues' gallery are developed almost entirely around their distinctive connection to the hero; of the new foes of the last decade or so, nearly all of them have started out with their primary motivation being to attack Spider-Man specifically. Fusion blames him for the death of his son, the majority of the new JMS villains are stalking him as part of the totem storyline, Gabriel Stacy exists to hate Peter, and so forth.

In contrast, the really classic villains were created so that they can, on occasion, be interested in or motivated by things other than hatin' on Spidey. They last because they can be used in stories that aren't about them seeking out the protagonist of the title and trying to do stuff to him, with no other real goal in mind. But, say, Morlun? The only thing that can change from one Morlun story to the next is the specific method by which he seeks out and tries to kill Spider-Man.

He's just not going to behave any differently than that, because that's his basic concept. One or two such relentless "vengeance/stalker" villains is fine -- Venom and the Green Goblin have their places in Spidey's rogues' gallery for a reason -- but a whole roster of them is simply dull. A villain who only wants to hurt the hero is a villain with relatively limited story possibilities, and those possibilities will eventually be exhausted.

> That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
>
>
>
>
>
> > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
> >
> > I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Comp




> > > That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
> > >
> >
> > Kaine is the last REALLY good major new baddie I can recall. Carnage was derivative of Venom, so he doesn't really count.
>
> There have been a lot of POTENTIAL major baddies introduced in the last 10 years, but none of them have been followed up on and turned into a major new threat.
>

That's the critical thing. Are classic villains like Electro, the Vulture, and the Sandman inherently better than those created by later writers? Not really, but by virtue of being there from the start, they're considered better.

There's also a mentality that exists nowadays that a character created by a writer belongs to that writer. Brian Michael Bendis wanted Paul Jenkins's approval before using the Sentry, for example. There's less of a public domain mentality than there used to be, so an original villain isn't likely to be used by anyone but his creator. And how long does one creator stick around on the same book?

-Comp


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Smithville Thunderbolt




> Are you serious

Yep. If the books were all the same, I could see where you could make a sweeping generalization about their quality. As it is, there are for the most part all different, meaning there should be some that fit your interest.

>Was better when there was 2 stories a MONTH, more to explore.

Say what? This is like saying if you have less money, there is more that you can buy.





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Smithville Thunderbolt




> That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.

Is this restricted to Spidey? How many integral villains have been added to any comic hero's rogues gallery in the last 15+ years?


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Omar Karindu




> > > > That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Kaine is the last REALLY good major new baddie I can recall. Carnage was derivative of Venom, so he doesn't really count.
> >
> > There have been a lot of POTENTIAL major baddies introduced in the last 10 years, but none of them have been followed up on and turned into a major new threat.
> >
>
> That's the critical thing. Are classic villains like Electro, the Vulture, and the Sandman inherently better than those created by later writers? Not really, but by virtue of being there from the start, they're considered better.

Well, and because they've been around long enough that writers have actually spent time fleshing them out. I've posted upthread about why I think it's harder to flesh out some of the newer villains in most comics these days, which is a further handicap.

> There's also a mentality that exists nowadays that a character created by a writer belongs to that writer. Brian Michael Bendis wanted Paul Jenkins's approval before using the Sentry, for example. There's less of a public domain mentality than there used to be, so an original villain isn't likely to be used by anyone but his creator. And how long does one creator stick around on the same book?
>
> -Comp

Also, the turn against continuity eliminates the major method by which the older villains were developed as characters; they simply don't show up in other titles as often anymore, and thus don't get to reveal new facets or character points by interacting with new characters.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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nonameatall




I never expected so many responses. I don't have time to read them all right now, but I do plan to read them all at some point. Thanks.


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parking lot attendant




> > That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
>
> Is this restricted to Spidey? How many integral villains have been added to any comic hero's rogues gallery in the last 15+ years?

And the creators aren't inventing their own good heroes/villains so all they can do is mess with established heroes like Captain America. Isn't that lame, they have to go that far to get some notice? And the unoriginality doesn't exist only in comics, hollywood can't come up with their own ideas to save their lives. Remake tv shows, comics, older movies. Is society all around getting dumber like in that movie Idiocracy (see I'm dumbed down too just named an original movie in my unoriginality rant) Haha, just wish there were more that could come to mind.


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Comp




> > There's also a mentality that exists nowadays that a character created by a writer belongs to that writer. Brian Michael Bendis wanted Paul Jenkins's approval before using the Sentry, for example. There's less of a public domain mentality than there used to be, so an original villain isn't likely to be used by anyone but his creator. And how long does one creator stick around on the same book?
> >
> > -Comp
>
> Also, the turn against continuity eliminates the major method by which the older villains were developed as characters; they simply don't show up in other titles as often anymore, and thus don't get to reveal new facets or character points by interacting with new characters.
>

You're right, but I don't think it's a continuity thing. It's the mentality I was talking about--villain x was created by writer y, so I, writer z, can't use him. Therefore, the villain is never adaquately developed.

I, for one, think Paul Jenkins's Fusion is an excellent villain, and his two appearances were a couple of the highlights of Jenkins's run. But Jenkins is no longer working on a monthly, much less a Spider-Man villain, and no one else seems to want to use one of the newer villains.

Fan demand probably factors in, too. How many times during Straczynski's run were fans calling for a return to the classic villains? And while Straczynski has continued to tell his own stories with his own characters, Aguirre-Sacasa and David have taken that largely to heart (although David has also created a few new badguys I hope other writers are willing to pick up on). It's simply hard for a new villain to catch on these days.

When you think about it, Spider-Man has so many potentially good villains that have never been developed properly. I've long had an idea of a team of such villains. I was going to call them the Exterminators, but the damn Chameleon took my name.

-Comp


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aussie_brad




> > That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
>
> Is this restricted to Spidey? How many integral villains have been added to any comic hero's rogues gallery in the last 15+ years?

At the top of my head, Grant Morrison brought Cassandra Nova to the X-men. There are probably a few others, but you're right, the cupboard is pretty threadbare.

Cheers,
Brad


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Electro




> > > > As far as I know, most of Spidey's major villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc.) made thier debuts, like Spidey himself, in the 60's. The biggest exception to this would be Venom, debuting in the 80's. But I was wondering, which, if any villains debuted in the 70's?
> > > >
> > > > I don't just want to limit things to the 70's though, basically, I just would like to know if there's a breakdown by decade of villains introductions, just to get a feel for the various eras, 60's through 00's.
> > >
> > > This should be enough of a start of a villains-by-decade list:
> > >
> > > 60s:
> > > Chameleon
> > > Vulture
> > > Doctor Octopus
> > > Sandman
> > > Lizard
> > > Electro
> > > Mysterio
> > > Green Goblin
> > > Scorpion
> > > Smythe/Spider Slayers
> > > Beetle
> > > Molten Man
> > > Shocker
> > > Rhino
> > > Kingpin
> > >
> > > I'm not entirely certain if Silvermane and Richard Fisk fall under late-60s or early-70s at the moment. Boomerang and Speed Demon both debuted in the 60s, but I don't think either became Spidey villains until later.
> > >
> > > 70s:
> > > Hammerhead
> > > Green Goblin (Harry Osborn and Bart Hamilton)
> > > Jackal
> > > Punisher
> > > Stegron
> > > Swarm
> > > Carrion
> > > Tarantula
> > > Hydro-Man(?)
> > >
> > > 80s:
> > > Tombstone
> > > Puma
> > > Hobgoblin
> > > Jack O'Lantern/Hobgoblin
> > > Sin-Eater
> > > Venom
> > > Calypso
> > > Alistair Smythe
> > > Carrion II
> > > Tri-Sentinel
> > > Foreigner
> > >
> > > 90s:
> > > Carnage
> > > Shriek
> > > Demogoblin
> > > Doppleganger
> > > Grim Hunter
> > > Traveller
> > > Scrier
> > > Kaine
> > > Spidercide
> > > Doctor Octopus II
> > > Kraven Jnr
> > > Mad Jack
> > > Senator Ward
> > >
> > > 00s:
> > > Morlun
> > > Shathra
> > > Ezekiel
> > > Digger
> > > The Stacy Twins
> > > Fusion
> > > Tracer
> >
> > Great list. I think it needs only Morbius, in the 1970s column.
>
> I had a nasty feeling I'd forgotten someone important, and Morbius sounds about right. Now that I think of it, maybe Black Tarantula and the 5th Green Goblin for the 90s, too. Beyonder and Firelord for the 80s, maybe?
>

This might be a bit picky, but you can also include Fortunado for the '90's as well. You can also throw in Armada and Joystick, as well as a couple others from the "Great Game."
> > Maybe also Silver Sable (who wasn't a villain per se but definitely had conflict with Spidey). She was mid-1980s.
>
> I'm not really sure if I'd include her as a villain myself.
>
> > Some of those I wouldn't count as "major villains" though, but for the most part its better to um... overspec a villain than under-spec one I guess.
>
> In general, I wanted to go for any "major" or "recurring" foe, and just threw in a few others of note to bulk out some of the decades. Almost included Facade just to freak people out.
>
> > Also, I wonder where someone like Doom would fit. He didn't debut in a Spider-Man book but was a major villain for him on a few occasions.
>
> Well, they first met in the 60s, so if you want him on the list, that's where he goes. In retrospect, I probably should've added him.


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DXD




Agreed. That's the one thing that has frustrated me during the JMS run. He's such a talented guy and a good idea man IMO. Don't get me wrong, I've really enjoyed his run but instead of treading on old characters e.g. Sins Past, I wish he came up with some more long-lasting villains.

> That it's been 15+ years since Spidey has had even a somewhat classic addition to his rogues gallery. And don't give me Morlun, he's terrible.
>



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