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MattS80




Due to my love for the Hobgoblin, I'm re-reading the Macendale as Hobgoblin back issues. I know a lot of people didn't like him, but I'm kind of surprised that he HASN'T come back. And frankly, it doesn't seem like he ever will. The best Macendale stories were probably by Gerry Conway and Howard Mackie. I know that he was the Jack O'Lantern ahead of time, but I never really read any of those issues. Were him and Spidey always enemies? And was he a killer even as Jack O'Lantern? Also, how did Spidey and other characters find out Macendale was the Hobgoblin, and that he ordered Ned Leeds to be killed (I assume this was in the Peter David written Hobgoblin issue, which I never read.)? Thanks.


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Blargh




For being a big fan you sure don't know a lot?

Kingpin told Spidey that Macendale was the new Hobgoblin and first Jack O'Lantern in the same issue he debuted in.

He (kind of) came back during the Bendis mini, Secret War. It's debatable about where in continuity is interview takes place. It identifies him in the comic as a Jack O'Lantern being funded by Latveria.

But in the interview segment at the end of the book, it says "AKA: Hobgoblin" or something like that.

It wouldn't have been the first time a relatively minor villain (minor in the scope of the MU, maybe not so minor in the Spidey history)came back with no reason. It could also have been an editor's mistake and told Bendis he was okay to use.

They were always enemies and Jason was always a killer.


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Ned Leeds Jr.




> Due to my love for the Hobgoblin, I'm re-reading the Macendale as Hobgoblin back issues. I know a lot of people didn't like him, but I'm kind of surprised that he HASN'T come back. And frankly, it doesn't seem like he ever will.

When he originally took over the identity, I was intrigued, but thought that the stories grew uninspired after a pretty short period of time. I don't know that he will ever come back as Hobgobline, since we have the original to return to at some point if they choose to use the character. I wouldn't mind seeing him back as the Jack O'Lantern, but a recent Punisher issue makes me wonder if the guy in the costume was him or another person entirely.... and if he will return.

>The best Macendale stories were probably by Gerry Conway and Howard Mackie. I know that he was the Jack O'Lantern ahead of time, but I never really read any of those issues. Were him and Spidey always enemies?

I'm not an internet research guy, so don't use it to verify facts. I can tell you that he and Spidey had sparred at least a few times previous to his transformation. He showed up wayyyy back in the original Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man series......

>And was he a killer even as Jack O'Lantern?

I don't recall that he was a killer per say. I do know that he became much deadlier and maniacal when he took over the Hobby persona.

>Also, how did Spidey and other characters find out Macendale was the Hobgoblin, and that he ordered Ned Leeds to be killed (I assume this was in the Peter David written Hobgoblin issue, which I never read.)?

Actually, Macendale had nothing to do with Ned's frame-up and death. That was the Foreigner. Ned's death was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man, but the full revelation of the events that took place occured in the Spider-Man/Wolverine 1-shot from the late 1980's.


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GammaSpidey





>
> Actually, Macendale had nothing to do with Ned's frame-up and death. That was the Foreigner. Ned's death was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man, but the full revelation of the events that took place occured in the Spider-Man/Wolverine 1-shot from the late 1980's.

Spider-Man Vs. Wolverine #1 come out in Feb. '87, and Amazing #289 came out in June '87.

In the Wolverine one-shot, Ned's death is just kind of tacked on to the main story. Peter walks in and finds him dead, no scene of any fight and no reference to the Hobgoblin at all.


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GammaSpidey




I'm pretty sure Macendale was murdered by Roderick Kingsley in the Hobgoblin Lives mini-series. I think any of Macendale's dialogue from Secret War was a flashback.


> Due to my love for the Hobgoblin, I'm re-reading the Macendale as Hobgoblin back issues. I know a lot of people didn't like him, but I'm kind of surprised that he HASN'T come back. And frankly, it doesn't seem like he ever will. The best Macendale stories were probably by Gerry Conway and Howard Mackie. I know that he was the Jack O'Lantern ahead of time, but I never really read any of those issues. Were him and Spidey always enemies? And was he a killer even as Jack O'Lantern? Also, how did Spidey and other characters find out Macendale was the Hobgoblin, and that he ordered Ned Leeds to be killed (I assume this was in the Peter David written Hobgoblin issue, which I never read.)? Thanks.


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StanthamanLee




> Actually, Macendale had nothing to do with Ned's frame-up and death. That was the Foreigner. Ned's death was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man, but the full revelation of the events that took place occured in the Spider-Man/Wolverine 1-shot from the late 1980's.

Well, Macendale hired the Foreigner for the assassination of "the Hobgoblin", so Jason really was the person responsible for Ned's death.

It wasn't a frame-up on the part of the Foreigner, or Macendale - Macendale just contracted for a hit on the Hobgoblin - who at that time, the Foreigner's sources identified to be Ned Leeds (and apparently, Ned HAD been acting as the Hobgoblin for most if not all of that time during the "Gang War" storyline).

So, Macendale wants Hobby dead & hires the Foreigner to whack him; the Foreigner believes Hobby to be Ned Leeds, finds him, sends goons to kill him, and wires Macendale's money to his own account once the job is done.

Jason Macendale killed Ned Leeds, even if Macendale had intended to kill the "real" Hobby.


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MattS80




> Actually, Macendale had nothing to do with Ned's frame-up and death. That was the Foreigner. Ned's death was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man, but the full revelation of the events that took place occured in the Spider-Man/Wolverine 1-shot from the late 1980's.>

Incidentally, one of my favorite Spidey stories, and Wolvie stories as well ("There goes that smile again".). That was the issue where Ned DIED, but it just showed him dead, not anything to do with Macendale or the Hobgoblin.


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Crazy Penguin




> Were him and Spidey always enemies?

Jack O'Lantern first appeared in Machine Man #19 by Tom DeFalco and Steve Ditko. Roger Stern then decided it would be cool to use him as a villain in an issue of Spectacular Spider-Man. Later Tom DeFalco brought him back in Amazing Spider-Man.


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Common-Sense, Tingling!






I’ve always been more interested in the original Hobgoblin than the second one if only because there’s something to be said for a “mysterious” villain that actually manages to stay a mystery for a decent length of time (plus, unlike present-day Norman, Roderick made for a believable “master villain” type).

Heck, with the possible exception of the late Steve (and even then there’s something to be said for him having a relative blank slate when compared to Maguire, Danny, and Jason), I’m more interested in the other Jack O’Lanterns than I am Jason. Maguire and Danny both feel more “real” to me despite having a fairly small amount of panel time compared to Jason.



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Ned Leeds Jr.




>
> >
> > Actually, Macendale had nothing to do with Ned's frame-up and death. That was the Foreigner. Ned's death was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man, but the full revelation of the events that took place occured in the Spider-Man/Wolverine 1-shot from the late 1980's.
>
> Spider-Man Vs. Wolverine #1 come out in Feb. '87, and Amazing #289 came out in June '87.
>
> In the Wolverine one-shot, Ned's death is just kind of tacked on to the main story. Peter walks in and finds him dead, no scene of any fight and no reference to the Hobgoblin at all.

Oops, I had them reversed in my noggin...


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Smithville Thunderbolt




> Due to my love for the Hobgoblin, I'm re-reading the Macendale as Hobgoblin back issues. I know a lot of people didn't like him, but I'm kind of surprised that he HASN'T come back. And frankly, it doesn't seem like he ever will. The best Macendale stories were probably by Gerry Conway and Howard Mackie. I know that he was the Jack O'Lantern ahead of time, but I never really read any of those issues. Were him and Spidey always enemies? And was he a killer even as Jack O'Lantern? Also, how did Spidey and other characters find out Macendale was the Hobgoblin, and that he ordered Ned Leeds to be killed (I assume this was in the Peter David written Hobgoblin issue, which I never read.)? Thanks.


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The Green Ninjas




I'll post some kind of full response tomorrow if I have time, otherwise it'll likely have to wait until I get back next week, but for right now, I'll go with a simple "Please bring him back, Marvel, haven't I given you enough of my money over the years?"

If you've killed off the freakin' Spot and brough him back again without explanation THREE TIMES in the last decade, and since his return/unmasking, the other Hobgoblin has been a persona-non-grata no-one's bothered using because they can just use Osborn instead, you KNOW you can bring him back. Do it and I'll sacrifice live people and/or animals to you.


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