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Iron Man Unit 007

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Quoyle


Member Since: Sat Oct 08, 2016


If it was something Steve Ditko was entitled to he would have reclaimed it years ago. This is a cynical move for a pay off made by Steve’s brother who never created shit himself anyway.
Steve Ditko was an Objectivist and believed in payment and trade for work done. If he believed he was being stolen from he would have done something about it while both he and Stan Lee were alive.
Personally I have noticed that after Steve Ditko quit Marvel he never did anything with mass appeal or indeed any proper comicbook ever again. It seems strange to me. Either Steve was creatively dry or he was burned by how Marvel and Stan treated him. He refused all interviews and became a near recluse.
Patrick Ditko just wants cash for doing nothing and is entitled to nothing. After all it can’t be a coincidence he has pulled this when a Spidey and Doctor Strange starring movie is no coincidence. They sat there at home and said, ‘Hey my brother was involved in creating that! Maybe I can cash in!’


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Iron Man Unit 007

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,045


Yes, it does feel like a cash grab to me.

Also per this link, Larry Lieber has filed similar termination requests and Disney is now fighting back

https://www.cbr.com/disney-lawsuits-avengers-characters-maintain-control/


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The Silver Surfer


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I don't think you even have to go that deep into it.

One person doing everything for a character is a great story. That guy getting screwed out of credit is an even better one. That is why the legend that Stan Lee stole credit for everything from Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko has become so popular... it is a good story.

Unfortunately, neither one of their solo work bares any reality to that claim. Both were good idea men, Ditko a good plotter, but both were God awful with character.

Kirby's dialogue is especially bad, and I personally find his return to Captain America in the 70s un-f###ing-readable.

Ditko tried to recreate Spider-Man twice. Once with Blue Beetle (who was a far cry from what Dematteis and Giffen turned him into) and with teenage characters Hawk and Dove.

Both had interesting plots, and Hawk and Dove a cool idea, but the characters were a little flat.

Maybe Ditko believed he got wronged, or just never bothered to openly correct things.

Ditko's son may honestly think he is correcting a wrong, because he loved his fate4hr..


But,m even if everything I said abut eh stealing idea being a lie is false... and it isn't...it does not matter. They signed the contract.

As some one who has been a freelancer/independent contractor since I was 19, If you don;t like the terms, and still sign the contract, you are screwed.

Siegel and Shuster won a lawsuit saying they should get credit. Well, Ditko gets credit. Even back in the day, he got credit... some of the early spider-man books even went so far as to point out that he plotted the story.


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Happy Hogan 

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Location: Northern Virginia
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,428




    Quote:
    I don't think you even have to go that deep into it.



    Quote:
    One person doing everything for a character is a great story. That guy getting screwed out of credit is an even better one. That is why the legend that Stan Lee stole credit for everything from Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko has become so popular... it is a good story.



    Quote:
    Unfortunately, neither one of their solo work bares any reality to that claim. Both were good idea men, Ditko a good plotter, but both were God awful with character.



    Quote:
    Kirby's dialogue is especially bad, and I personally find his return to Captain America in the 70s un-f###ing-readable.



    Quote:
    Ditko tried to recreate Spider-Man twice. Once with Blue Beetle (who was a far cry from what Dematteis and Giffen turned him into) and with teenage characters Hawk and Dove.



    Quote:
    Both had interesting plots, and Hawk and Dove a cool idea, but the characters were a little flat.



    Quote:
    Maybe Ditko believed he got wronged, or just never bothered to openly correct things.


Spider-Man became a much more altruistic character that Ditko was probably comfortable being associated with. IIRC, Ditko got more into Objectivism after Spider-Man was created.

In my own humble opinion, the discussion of objectivism vs altruism can make for a good theme within a story. Unfortunately, Steve Ditko never seemed to be interested in the discussion. Judging by his work (and what I've been able to learn about him) he seemed to want to take readers by the hand and lead them to the conclusion that objectivism was a better choice.



    Quote:
    Siegel and Shuster won a lawsuit saying they should get credit. Well, Ditko gets credit. Even back in the day, he got credit... some of the early spider-man books even went so far as to point out that he plotted the story.


Yes Siegel and Shuster deserved credit for Superman. Until very recently only Bob Kane received full credit for Batman. Even now the credit isn't Bob Kane and Bill Finger, it's only Bob Kane with Bill Finger.

But Steve Ditko always got full credit for his part in creating Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.






Iron Man Unit 007

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,045


Yes Ditko did seem to be getting credit, but of course that was pre-MCU days.

Now credit = cash in the accounts.

Kirby was trying reclaim his rights or get a settlement before he died and his family carried on the fight. Ed Brubaker himself confirmed that as I recall after the settlement was announced. Kirby estate is happy, all is well.

Bill Finger, okay he is finally being credited for Batman. That is good. As to the phrasing, Bob Kane with Bill Finger vs Bob Kane and Bill Finger....well I am not honestly sure that it matters but it would be nice to see as the latter. However I suppose it comes down to getting the Kane estate to agree, and that is what they came up with. I am not privy to the details of course, just speculating. Isn't there the arguement that Bob Kane created the core concept/prototype of Batman and Bill Finger simply refined it rather heavily into the Batman we all know, including creating his arsenal, cave, vehicles, etc. But without the core concept from Bob Kane, Bill Finger would have had nothing to work with. Again just speculating.

But the Siegle/Schuster agreement, the Kirby settlement and the Bill Finger settlement all set precedents for creators and their estates to try as well.


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Happy Hogan 

Manager

Location: Northern Virginia
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,428




    Quote:
    Yes Ditko did seem to be getting credit, but of course that was pre-MCU days.



    Quote:
    Now credit = cash in the accounts.


Yeah, they're all valuable because Marvel Studios made them all valuable. (Kevin Feige in particualar)



    Quote:
    Kirby was trying reclaim his rights or get a settlement before he died and his family carried on the fight. Ed Brubaker himself confirmed that as I recall after the settlement was announced. Kirby estate is happy, all is well.



    Quote:
    Bill Finger, okay he is finally being credited for Batman. That is good. As to the phrasing, Bob Kane with Bill Finger vs Bob Kane and Bill Finger....well I am not honestly sure that it matters but it would be nice to see as the latter. However I suppose it comes down to getting the Kane estate to agree, and that is what they came up with. I am not privy to the details of course, just speculating. Isn't there the arguement that Bob Kane created the core concept/prototype of Batman and Bill Finger simply refined it rather heavily into the Batman we all know, including creating his arsenal, cave, vehicles, etc. But without the core concept from Bob Kane, Bill Finger would have had nothing to work with. Again just speculating.


I don't see why that argument would apply only to Kane and Finger. It could just as well apply to Siegle and Schuster, Simon and Kirby, Lee and Kirby, Lee and Ditko, etc.


    Quote:
    But the Siegle/Schuster agreement, the Kirby settlement and the Bill Finger settlement all set precedents for creators and their estates to try as well.


On the subject of who created what, over the years I've seen quite a bit of shade thrown at Stan Lee, much more than I felt he deserved. Both Kirby and Ditko needed Stan Lee's writing to make those characters awesome.





Iron Man Unit 007

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,045


Stan gets a lot of credit, maybe more then he deserved, maybe not.

I see Stan as the business man that kept things going as well as a writer to help balance the work of Kirby and Ditko


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