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Author
Eno Orazzib




Good-bye

As one of those absolutely loved the Byrne-era, it may surprise a few people that were actually a couple of things that I thought he threw the baby out with the bathwater. One of them was Kara Zor-El.

And, over the years DC did try to bring in some kind of Supergirl like Matrix from the Pocket Universe, the often-overlooked Power Girl, and the Linda Danvers/Matrix hybrid, none of them truly matched up to Kara Zor-El. Until Jeph Loeb came up with his Girl From Krypton arc.

I am one of Loeb's biggest critics. I am not a fan of his story-telling, but I do think he has some of the best ideas in the comic biz. And his first issue of the Girl from Krypton had me at the edge of my seat. After that, it seemed as if he and others have dropped the ball on Kara.

In her first story arc, the readers totally lose out on any kind of insight to this character as her first several weeks/months(I forget which) is spent off-panel and on Paradise Island with a bunch of Amazons (one of my own personal fantasies as well). We spend months wondering if this was the real deal or a Darkseid plot.

When do find out it is the real girl of steel, we are whisked to her own book where we discover she has an attitude and love of skimpy outfits that make ankle look skinny. We are treated with issue after issue of guest starring super heroes for her whale on. She encounters Luthor way too early with no sense of build up. And she seems pretty much on her own for an extremely tall 16-year old alien.

Superman is so excited to have some family still alive that he pretty much ignores her except for some cameos here and there. We had more of a sense of brotherly love in those quaint 8-page stories of the silver age. She's shacking up with Boomerbutt's son? There's no supporting cast. No subplots, except for Zor-El wanting his nephew dead. (I think it's funny that so writers have a problem with a teenage Clark Kent playing football, but have no problem with kryptonain fraternicide?)

It seems that nowadays comic creative staff believes that give women attitudes makes them modern and politically correct, but we already have a female kryptonian with attitude, it is the underused Power Girl. (and maybe Karsta Wor-Ul can be added to this as well).

Why can't we have the sweet Supergirl of the past? Why can't we have the Danvers? Why can't we have her attending school in Midvale? Why can't we have Dick Malverne?

Over in the Superman titles, we have elements of both the Silver Age (Legion of Super-Heroes for example) and the Christopher Reeve movies (Zod, Ursa, Non, Ice Palace of Solitude, etc) returning. Why can't we have those return to Supergirl as well? While the Supergirl movie wasn't the blockbuster that Superman movies were, Helen Slater was great as this somewhat naive, but courageous alien girl try to fight badguys and save her home.

The creative team I belive are missing something by ignoring these elements told in a modern 21st-century view of storytelling of a young, powerful 16-year old alien comparing and contrasting her home and family now and those of Argo City/Krypton. Whereas Superman grew up here and learned of the wonders of Krypton, we now Kara who would look at from the opposite direction. And it seems as if Superman and Supergirl are avoiding each other unless there is some dire problem where they have to fight along side each other.

Am I the only one who thinks this way, and believed they are missing some great story opportunities.

Hello!
Eno Orazzib


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Blue Beetle




>
> Good-bye

Hello.


> As one of those absolutely loved the Byrne-era, it may surprise a few people that were actually a couple of things that I thought he threw the baby out with the bathwater. One of them was Kara Zor-El.


I disliked the Byrne era. It made no sense to me because Superman was powered down but the other heroes weren't, which left me thinking that Superman was no longer the most powerful hero, and that bugged me. If all the heroes had been powered down, I might have had a different reaction.


> And, over the years DC did try to bring in some kind of Supergirl like Matrix from the Pocket Universe, the often-overlooked Power Girl, and the Linda Danvers/Matrix hybrid, none of them truly matched up to Kara Zor-El. Until Jeph Loeb came up with his Girl From Krypton arc.


The incarnations you mention have their fans. I like Power Girl but I never liked the Matrix character, though I know many did.


> I am one of Loeb's biggest critics. I am not a fan of his story-telling, but I do think he has some of the best ideas in the comic biz.


I'm not a fan of Loeb at all.


> And his first issue of the Girl from Krypton had me at the edge of my seat. After that, it seemed as if he and others have dropped the ball on Kara.


I too was on the edge of my seat, but not because of Loeb. Any writer who was telling this particular story would have had me riveted. I only cared about one thing: Was this girl Kryptonian?


> In her first story arc, the readers totally lose out on any kind of insight to this character as her first several weeks/months(I forget which) is spent off-panel and on Paradise Island with a bunch of Amazons (one of my own personal fantasies as well). We spend months wondering if this was the real deal or a Darkseid plot.


Torturing us with a mystery of this sort is traditional comic book technique so I can't fault anyone in this instance.


> When do find out it is the real girl of steel, we are whisked to her own book where we discover she has an attitude and love of skimpy outfits that make ankle look skinny. We are treated with issue after issue of guest starring super heroes for her whale on. She encounters Luthor way too early with no sense of build up. And she seems pretty much on her own for an extremely tall 16-year old alien.


I didn't buy her solo comic for a long time. I recently have begun ordering it, concurrent with the beginning of the new writer's tenure, because the new writer used to be on Batgirl and that was a really good comic.


> Superman is so excited to have some family still alive that he pretty much ignores her except for some cameos here and there. We had more of a sense of brotherly love in those quaint 8-page stories of the silver age.


This is typical of DC in recent years. Supposedly Superman had a soft spot for Conner yet he rarely visited.


> It seems that nowadays comic creative staff believes that give women attitudes makes them modern and politically correct, but we already have a female kryptonian with attitude, it is the underused Power Girl. (and maybe Karsta Wor-Ul can be added to this as well).


The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.


> Why can't we have the sweet Supergirl of the past? Why can't we have the Danvers? Why can't we have her attending school in Midvale? Why can't we have Dick Malverne?


I guess because none of that sold comic books in sufficient numbers.

Also, to a certain extent the "sweet Supergirl of the past" is unlikely to exist in a realistic storytelling milieu. Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal. Imagine a teen-ager with invincible super powers and thus little to fear from any person short of Darkseid. Surely there would be discipline problems. At least the modern Supergirl is choosing to help the world with her powers. Many, many, many teen-agers, if given such awesome super powers, would use them for purely selfish ends.


> ...Whereas Superman grew up here and learned of the wonders of Krypton, we now Kara who would look at from the opposite direction.


Interesting contrast worth exploring, I agree.


>
> Hello!


Good-bye!



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
omike015




>The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.

So a Kryptonian Supergirl is more important to you than a well-written one? Interesting.

>Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal.

Teenagers can't fly or shoot death beams from their eyes, but that seems to be accepted in the comic book 'verse. Why can abnormal characters have abnormal characterization?

omike015
:-|



kandor.monkeylord.net (10.0.1.245)
using Fortress Kryptonian Browsing Matrix v1.9.38 (0.33 points)
Sandman




> >
> > Good-bye
>
> Hello.
>
>
> > As one of those absolutely loved the Byrne-era, it may surprise a few people that were actually a couple of things that I thought he threw the baby out with the bathwater. One of them was Kara Zor-El.
>
>
> I disliked the Byrne era. It made no sense to me because Superman was powered down but the other heroes weren't, which left me thinking that Superman was no longer the most powerful hero, and that bugged me. If all the heroes had been powered down, I might have had a different reaction.

They were powered down, the other "overpowered" ones that is like Captain Marvel, in fact, the DC universe now had new rules in reality that effected everyone and Superman was still one of the most powerful beings on the planet. Although there were a lot of glitches, they wanted it to be more believable and plot driven for the readers which pre-crisis Superman was too powerful to let happen.

A god-like Superman works a lot better then a omnipotent one.
>
>
> > And, over the years DC did try to bring in some kind of Supergirl like Matrix from the Pocket Universe, the often-overlooked Power Girl, and the Linda Danvers/Matrix hybrid, none of them truly matched up to Kara Zor-El. Until Jeph Loeb came up with his Girl From Krypton arc.
>
>
> The incarnations you mention have their fans. I like Power Girl but I never liked the Matrix character, though I know many did.
>
>
> > I am one of Loeb's biggest critics. I am not a fan of his story-telling, but I do think he has some of the best ideas in the comic biz.
>
>
> I'm not a fan of Loeb at all.
>
>
> > And his first issue of the Girl from Krypton had me at the edge of my seat. After that, it seemed as if he and others have dropped the ball on Kara.
>
>
> I too was on the edge of my seat, but not because of Loeb. Any writer who was telling this particular story would have had me riveted. I only cared about one thing: Was this girl Kryptonian?
>
>
> > In her first story arc, the readers totally lose out on any kind of insight to this character as her first several weeks/months(I forget which) is spent off-panel and on Paradise Island with a bunch of Amazons (one of my own personal fantasies as well). We spend months wondering if this was the real deal or a Darkseid plot.
>
>
> Torturing us with a mystery of this sort is traditional comic book technique so I can't fault anyone in this instance.
>
>
> > When do find out it is the real girl of steel, we are whisked to her own book where we discover she has an attitude and love of skimpy outfits that make ankle look skinny. We are treated with issue after issue of guest starring super heroes for her whale on. She encounters Luthor way too early with no sense of build up. And she seems pretty much on her own for an extremely tall 16-year old alien.
>
>
> I didn't buy her solo comic for a long time. I recently have begun ordering it, concurrent with the beginning of the new writer's tenure, because the new writer used to be on Batgirl and that was a really good comic.
>
>
> > Superman is so excited to have some family still alive that he pretty much ignores her except for some cameos here and there. We had more of a sense of brotherly love in those quaint 8-page stories of the silver age.
>
>
> This is typical of DC in recent years. Supposedly Superman had a soft spot for Conner yet he rarely visited.
>
>
> > It seems that nowadays comic creative staff believes that give women attitudes makes them modern and politically correct, but we already have a female kryptonian with attitude, it is the underused Power Girl. (and maybe Karsta Wor-Ul can be added to this as well).
>
>
> The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.
>
>
> > Why can't we have the sweet Supergirl of the past? Why can't we have the Danvers? Why can't we have her attending school in Midvale? Why can't we have Dick Malverne?
>
>
> I guess because none of that sold comic books in sufficient numbers.
>
> Also, to a certain extent the "sweet Supergirl of the past" is unlikely to exist in a realistic storytelling milieu. Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal. Imagine a teen-ager with invincible super powers and thus little to fear from any person short of Darkseid. Surely there would be discipline problems. At least the modern Supergirl is choosing to help the world with her powers. Many, many, many teen-agers, if given such awesome super powers, would use them for purely selfish ends.
>
>
> > ...Whereas Superman grew up here and learned of the wonders of Krypton, we now Kara who would look at from the opposite direction.
>
>
> Interesting contrast worth exploring, I agree.
>
>
> >
> > Hello!
>
>
> Good-bye!
>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.9 on Windows XP
Blue Beetle




> >The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.
>
> So a Kryptonian Supergirl is more important to you than a well-written one? Interesting.


Writers come and go. The poor writing is ending now that a good writer is taking over. What matters long term is the basic design of the character.


>
> >Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal.
>
> Teenagers can't fly or shoot death beams from their eyes, but that seems to be accepted in the comic book 'verse. Why can abnormal characters have abnormal characterization?


Because realistic characterization is what helps us suspend our disbelief in the face of unrealistic powers.

Now I certainly would have accepted a return to the Silver Age Supergirl exactly as she used to exist, but DC didn't give us that. Yet what they gave us is better than anything else they've given us for the last twenty years so I focus on the positive.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Blue Beetle




> > I disliked the Byrne era. It made no sense to me because Superman was powered down but the other heroes weren't, which left me thinking that Superman was no longer the most powerful hero, and that bugged me. If all the heroes had been powered down, I might have had a different reaction.
>
> They were powered down, the other "overpowered" ones that is like Captain Marvel, in fact, the DC universe now had new rules in reality that effected everyone and Superman was still one of the most powerful beings on the planet.


First, "one of" isn't good enough for me. Superman should be, hands down, the most powerful hero.

Secondly, Green Lantern wasn't powered down, nor was the Martian Manhunter, nor was the Flash, nor was Wonder Woman, nor Doctor Fate, nor the Spectre... who was powered down? Apparently Captain Marvel, from what you say. Who else?


> Although there were a lot of glitches, they wanted it to be more believable and plot driven for the readers which pre-crisis Superman was too powerful to let happen.


Marvel writers who were used to the Marvel Universe came to DC and suddenly Superman had to be powered down. It really wasn't necessary. Put Superman in the Marvel Universe and then yes, it would be necessary to power him down, as witness the ridiculous spectacle of the Sentry, a character too powerful for his universe so naturally he's agoraphobic and thus hides in his living room instead of getting involved. But DC was always different and didn't need to ape Marvel in order to be cool.

DC just needed to trim back the excess lunacy on the fringes of what Superman did in the Silver Age. Tossing a rock to the moon? Lunacy. Don't do that any more. But flying the rock to the moon is fine and doing it at near light speed is fine too.

Superman was generally more powerful than his enemies. In the Marvel Universe this would be unacceptable. But in the DC Universe it worked fine if the storytellers understood how to make it work. In a Superman story, we're generally not worried that Superman might get hurt. We're worried that someone else might get hurt. Thus we're worried about the very same thing that Superman is worried about. And while Superman has the power advantage, the villain has the "no scruples" advantage. The villain will put helpless innocents at risk. Superman won't ever do that, plus Superman will always be diverted from the battle to save any innocents who are endangered.

Superman has more power but also more scruples. The villain has less power but also less scruples. No Marvel story would every be structured like that. But DC is different.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
omike015




> > >The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.
> >
> > So a Kryptonian Supergirl is more important to you than a well-written one? Interesting.
>
> Writers come and go. The poor writing is ending now that a good writer is taking over.

And as you just pointed out, writers come and go. Inevitably, the "good writer" will "go."

>What matters long term is the basic design of the character.

But the "basic design" of the character is moot if the writing is poor. As the first 20-odd issues of her title have shown, A Kryptonian Supergirl alone does not for good stories make. I'll take a well written non-Kryptonian Supergirl over a poorly written Kryptonian Supergirl any day.

> > >Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal.
> >
> > Teenagers can't fly or shoot death beams from their eyes, but that seems to be accepted in the comic book 'verse. Why can abnormal characters have abnormal characterization?
>
> Because realistic characterization is what helps us suspend our disbelief in the face of unrealistic powers.

Suspension of disbelief extends to characterizations, as well.

> Now I certainly would have accepted a return to the Silver Age Supergirl exactly as she used to exist, but DC didn't give us that. Yet what they gave us is better than anything else they've given us for the last twenty years so I focus on the positive.

A post with the subject "Bring Back Supergirl" would seem to indicate otherwise.

omike015
:-|



kandor.monkeylord.net (10.0.1.245)
using Fortress Kryptonian Browsing Matrix v1.9.38 (0.6 points)
Blue Beetle




> > > >The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.
> > >
> > > So a Kryptonian Supergirl is more important to you than a well-written one? Interesting.
> >
> > Writers come and go. The poor writing is ending now that a good writer is taking over.
>
> And as you just pointed out, writers come and go. Inevitably, the "good writer" will "go."


And then I'll either continue with the new writer or I'll quit the title. Either way, Supergirl will be Kryptonian, and I'll be happy. I don't have to buy the comic to be happy. I simply need characters to exist in the form I prefer. If Shakespeare were brought back from the grave to write a non-Kryptonian Supergirl, and Michelangelo brought back to paint each page, I wouldn't be happy.

It's the same with Hal Jordan having returned as Green Lantern. I'm happy Hal is back. I don't like the writing of the book so I don't buy it. But I'm still happy. The DC Universe matches my preference.


>
> >What matters long term is the basic design of the character.
>
> But the "basic design" of the character is moot if the writing is poor. As the first 20-odd issues of her title have shown, A Kryptonian Supergirl alone does not for good stories make. I'll take a well written non-Kryptonian Supergirl over a poorly written Kryptonian Supergirl any day.


Not me. Good stories are moot if the character design doesn't match my preference. The Pulitzer and the Nobel could be awarded to Peter David for his Matrix Supergirl and I still wouldn't bother with it.


>
> > > >Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal.
> > >
> > > Teenagers can't fly or shoot death beams from their eyes, but that seems to be accepted in the comic book 'verse. Why can abnormal characters have abnormal characterization?
> >
> > Because realistic characterization is what helps us suspend our disbelief in the face of unrealistic powers.
>
> Suspension of disbelief extends to characterizations, as well.


You lost me here. I'm saying the current girl's personality is more realistic than the Silver Age one. Perpetually sweet teen-agers don't exist anywhere in the world.


> > Now I certainly would have accepted a return to the Silver Age Supergirl exactly as she used to exist, but DC didn't give us that. Yet what they gave us is better than anything else they've given us for the last twenty years so I focus on the positive.
>
> A post with the subject "Bring Back Supergirl" would seem to indicate otherwise.


Since I didn't originate the subject heading, you lost me here too.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Sandman




> > > I disliked the Byrne era. It made no sense to me because Superman was powered down but the other heroes weren't, which left me thinking that Superman was no longer the most powerful hero, and that bugged me. If all the heroes had been powered down, I might have had a different reaction.
> >
> > They were powered down, the other "overpowered" ones that is like Captain Marvel, in fact, the DC universe now had new rules in reality that effected everyone and Superman was still one of the most powerful beings on the planet.
>
>
> First, "one of" isn't good enough for me. Superman should be, hands down, the most powerful hero.

Sorry, but the guy should have some rivals because hardly anyone can take the "Because he's Superman" serious anymore and the he's god's gift to the universe was getting boring which is part of the reason they rebooted and depowered him, but they did keep him god-like while hopefully the planet moving thing will never come back for story sake.
>
> Secondly, Green Lantern wasn't powered down, nor was the Martian Manhunter, nor was the Flash, nor was Wonder Woman, nor Doctor Fate, nor the Spectre... who was powered down? Apparently Captain Marvel, from what you say. Who else?

You pretty much have the list right there because they were powered down while the Spectra is a cosmic being with rules that hold him back.
>
>
> > Although there were a lot of glitches, they wanted it to be more believable and plot driven for the readers which pre-crisis Superman was too powerful to let happen.
>
>
> Marvel writers who were used to the Marvel Universe came to DC and suddenly Superman had to be powered down. It really wasn't necessary. Put Superman in the Marvel Universe and then yes, it would be necessary to power him down, as witness the ridiculous spectacle of the Sentry, a character too powerful for his universe so naturally he's agoraphobic and thus hides in his living room instead of getting involved. But DC was always different and didn't need to ape Marvel in order to be cool.
>
> DC just needed to trim back the excess lunacy on the fringes of what Superman did in the Silver Age. Tossing a rock to the moon? Lunacy. Don't do that any more. But flying the rock to the moon is fine and doing it at near light speed is fine too.
>
> Superman was generally more powerful than his enemies. In the Marvel Universe this would be unacceptable. But in the DC Universe it worked fine if the storytellers understood how to make it work. In a Superman story, we're generally not worried that Superman might get hurt. We're worried that someone else might get hurt. Thus we're worried about the very same thing that Superman is worried about. And while Superman has the power advantage, the villain has the "no scruples" advantage. The villain will put helpless innocents at risk. Superman won't ever do that, plus Superman will always be diverted from the battle to save any innocents who are endangered.
>
> Superman has more power but also more scruples. The villain has less power but also less scruples. No Marvel story would every be structured like that. But DC is different.
>
>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.9 on Windows XP
omike015




>Good stories are moot if the character design doesn't match my preference.

Then I guess there's no chance in reconciling our views... \:\-\)

omike015
:-|



kandor.monkeylord.net (10.0.1.245)
using Fortress Kryptonian Browsing Matrix v1.9.38 (0 points)
Blue Beetle




> > First, "one of" isn't good enough for me. Superman should be, hands down, the most powerful hero.
>
> Sorry, but the guy should have some rivals because hardly anyone can take the "Because he's Superman" serious anymore and the he's god's gift to the universe was getting boring which is part of the reason they rebooted and depowered him, but they did keep him god-like while hopefully the planet moving thing will never come back for story sake.


Planet moving goes along with tossing things to the moon. Lunacy. So yes, it's good we don't see that any more.

But I'm fine with him tossing an aircraft carrier into orbit. It seemed to me that Byrne's Superman couldn't have done that.


> > Secondly, Green Lantern wasn't powered down, nor was the Martian Manhunter, nor was the Flash, nor was Wonder Woman, nor Doctor Fate, nor the Spectre... who was powered down? Apparently Captain Marvel, from what you say. Who else?
>
> You pretty much have the list right there because they were powered down while the Spectra is a cosmic being with rules that hold him back.


I must have really been asleep at the switch as I didn't notice any of this powering down you mention. Surely Green Lantern could still get to Oa unaided, right? That right there is gigantic, since Oa is at the center of the galaxy, and thus traveling there would require a jump through hyperspace.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
KET




> > > > >The original Supergirl was classic. I would love to have her back. But at least the one we have is Kryptonian, is Superman's cousin, arrived on Earth as a teen-ager, is blonde, and wears the red, yellow, and blue. I'm thankful we have that much.
> > > >
> > > > So a Kryptonian Supergirl is more important to you than a well-written one? Interesting.
> > >
> > > Writers come and go. The poor writing is ending now that a good writer is taking over.


That still remains to be seen. Puckett's first issue read like the prologue for a leftover Cassandra Cain Batgirl story he still had kicking around in inventory. Didn't really fit the character he's NOW writing.




> >
> > And as you just pointed out, writers come and go. Inevitably, the "good writer" will "go."
>
>
> And then I'll either continue with the new writer or I'll quit the title. Either way, Supergirl will be Kryptonian, and I'll be happy. I don't have to buy the comic to be happy.


That doesn't make any logical sense. If you're not buying into it, why would that make you happy?





> I simply need characters to exist in the form I prefer.


Then CREATE YOUR OWN. Supergirl as a trademark and a character belongs to DC Comics and Warner Bros.; if they change what she is again tomorrow, it's entirely in their right to do so. They don't need your approval.






If Shakespeare were brought back from the grave to write a non-Kryptonian Supergirl, and Michelangelo brought back to paint each page, I wouldn't be happy.
>
> It's the same with Hal Jordan having returned as Green Lantern. I'm happy Hal is back. I don't like the writing of the book so I don't buy it. But I'm still happy. The DC Universe matches my preference.
>
>
> >
> > >What matters long term is the basic design of the character.
> >
> > But the "basic design" of the character is moot if the writing is poor. As the first 20-odd issues of her title have shown, A Kryptonian Supergirl alone does not for good stories make. I'll take a well written non-Kryptonian Supergirl over a poorly written Kryptonian Supergirl any day.
>
>
> Not me. Good stories are moot if the character design doesn't match my preference.


Now that's just silly. Character design is merely just somebody's fashion statement at the time. For example, how many times has Supergirl changed HER look over the years?






>The Pulitzer and the Nobel could be awarded to Peter David for his Matrix Supergirl and I still wouldn't bother with it.


Your loss. His run was leagues above the confused teenager angst tripe the new SG series keeps wallowing in now.



>
>
> >
> > > > >Teen-agers have attitudes. This is normal.
> > > >
> > > > Teenagers can't fly or shoot death beams from their eyes, but that seems to be accepted in the comic book 'verse. Why can abnormal characters have abnormal characterization?
> > >
> > > Because realistic characterization is what helps us suspend our disbelief in the face of unrealistic powers.
> >
> > Suspension of disbelief extends to characterizations, as well.
>
>
> You lost me here. I'm saying the current girl's personality is more realistic than the Silver Age one. Perpetually sweet teen-agers don't exist anywhere in the world.


I would say that you don't know enough teenage girls, then. They don't all model themselves after stereotypical Hollywood tabloid head cases.



KET


Posted with Opera 9.24 on Windows XP
Blue Beetle




> > > > Writers come and go. The poor writing is ending now that a good writer is taking over.
>
>
> That still remains to be seen. Puckett's first issue read like the prologue for a leftover Cassandra Cain Batgirl story he still had kicking around in inventory. Didn't really fit the character he's NOW writing.


Hopefully I'll get it in the mail one of these days so I can read it. I get my comics monthly from Westfield and I still haven't received my October books.


> > And then I'll either continue with the new writer or I'll quit the title. Either way, Supergirl will be Kryptonian, and I'll be happy. I don't have to buy the comic to be happy.
>
>
> That doesn't make any logical sense. If you're not buying into it, why would that make you happy?


Because I want the DC Universe to be a certain way. If I get what I want, it makes me happy.


> > I simply need characters to exist in the form I prefer.
>
>
> Then CREATE YOUR OWN. Supergirl as a trademark and a character belongs to DC Comics and Warner Bros.; if they change what she is again tomorrow, it's entirely in their right to do so. They don't need your approval.


Where in this discussion did I imply otherwise?


> > Not me. Good stories are moot if the character design doesn't match my preference.
>
>
> Now that's just silly. Character design is merely just somebody's fashion statement at the time. For example, how many times has Supergirl changed HER look over the years?


Are you interpreting my use of "character design" to mean what the character looks like and nothing more? If so, that's not what I mean. For example, being Kryptonian is a component of Supergirl's character design. Being super strong is another component. Being blonde is another. Being Superman's cousin is another.


> >The Pulitzer and the Nobel could be awarded to Peter David for his Matrix Supergirl and I still wouldn't bother with it.
>
>
> Your loss. His run was leagues above the confused teenager angst tripe the new SG series keeps wallowing in now.


Why do you think I lose something if I don't read some particular comic book? There are hundreds of comics on the shelves. I only read maybe twenty in any given month. Most of the comics published are well written and well illustrated, and I don't read the vast majority of them. Am I suffering loss with respect to each one?


> > You lost me here. I'm saying the current girl's personality is more realistic than the Silver Age one. Perpetually sweet teen-agers don't exist anywhere in the world.
>
>
> I would say that you don't know enough teenage girls, then. They don't all model themselves after stereotypical Hollywood tabloid head cases.


Where in this discussion did I imply that they did? What I said is, perpetually sweet teen-agers don't exist anywhere in the world. I stand by that statement. No teen-ager is perpetually sweet. Hormones have their way with all of them, each to a greater or lesser degree, but at least somewhat in every case.

Meanwhile, I didn't bother reading the prior issues of the Supergirl comic because my sampling gave me the sense that I would be annoyed by the storytelling. I think you and I are on the same wavelength in that respect. Am I right that the storytelling annoyed you?




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Cypher




> Good-bye
>
> As one of those absolutely loved the Byrne-era, it may surprise a few people that were actually a couple of things that I thought he threw the baby out with the bathwater. One of them was Kara Zor-El.
>
> And, over the years DC did try to bring in some kind of Supergirl like Matrix from the Pocket Universe, the often-overlooked Power Girl, and the Linda Danvers/Matrix hybrid, none of them truly matched up to Kara Zor-El. Until Jeph Loeb came up with his Girl From Krypton arc.
>
> I am one of Loeb's biggest critics. I am not a fan of his story-telling, but I do think he has some of the best ideas in the comic biz. And his first issue of the Girl from Krypton had me at the edge of my seat. After that, it seemed as if he and others have dropped the ball on Kara.
>
> In her first story arc, the readers totally lose out on any kind of insight to this character as her first several weeks/months(I forget which) is spent off-panel and on Paradise Island with a bunch of Amazons (one of my own personal fantasies as well). We spend months wondering if this was the real deal or a Darkseid plot.
>
> When do find out it is the real girl of steel, we are whisked to her own book where we discover she has an attitude and love of skimpy outfits that make ankle look skinny. We are treated with issue after issue of guest starring super heroes for her whale on. She encounters Luthor way too early with no sense of build up. And she seems pretty much on her own for an extremely tall 16-year old alien.
>
> Superman is so excited to have some family still alive that he pretty much ignores her except for some cameos here and there. We had more of a sense of brotherly love in those quaint 8-page stories of the silver age. She's shacking up with Boomerbutt's son? There's no supporting cast. No subplots, except for Zor-El wanting his nephew dead. (I think it's funny that so writers have a problem with a teenage Clark Kent playing football, but have no problem with kryptonain fraternicide?)
>
> It seems that nowadays comic creative staff believes that give women attitudes makes them modern and politically correct, but we already have a female kryptonian with attitude, it is the underused Power Girl. (and maybe Karsta Wor-Ul can be added to this as well).
>
> Why can't we have the sweet Supergirl of the past? Why can't we have the Danvers? Why can't we have her attending school in Midvale? Why can't we have Dick Malverne?
>
> Over in the Superman titles, we have elements of both the Silver Age (Legion of Super-Heroes for example) and the Christopher Reeve movies (Zod, Ursa, Non, Ice Palace of Solitude, etc) returning. Why can't we have those return to Supergirl as well? While the Supergirl movie wasn't the blockbuster that Superman movies were, Helen Slater was great as this somewhat naive, but courageous alien girl try to fight badguys and save her home.
>
> The creative team I belive are missing something by ignoring these elements told in a modern 21st-century view of storytelling of a young, powerful 16-year old alien comparing and contrasting her home and family now and those of Argo City/Krypton. Whereas Superman grew up here and learned of the wonders of Krypton, we now Kara who would look at from the opposite direction. And it seems as if Superman and Supergirl are avoiding each other unless there is some dire problem where they have to fight along side each other.
>
> Am I the only one who thinks this way, and believed they are missing some great story opportunities.
>
> Hello!
> Eno Orazzib

You're probably not the only one that thinks this way. I actually recently stopped collecting Supergirl. The stories were just too awful; it seemed like the writers had no direction; and Supergirl is just depicted as a whiney teenager. I also found it odd that she was shacked up with some old guy who she may or may not have been dating/sleeping with (I believe they fixed that in a recent comic in which he said he was too old for her).



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