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Author
7th Man




How often did Clark visit Smallville?



Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?



Did the Death of Martha and John play that much of a role in the adult Superman comics?



Did Clark still own the farm?



Historically speaking. If during the Silver age (Before that Hateful Crisis) would it have made much of a difference if Martha and John had come back?



I remember one of the Giffen Legion issues where Saturn Girl sends Superboy away. Because she knew on this date. when Superboy went home. That the Kents would fall ill and pass away.



Was it such a big deal that the Kents came back or were never gone after the Crisis? It doesn't seem to do much more than add another interplaying element to the Superman Books (Abeit an emotional one).



My reasons for asking is this. I am doing a story involving Superman of the Silver age. Basically the events in the Crisis fail to happen the way they did (The whys and hows are unimportant) and the Multiple Earth's survive. But during the event I want something to happen that brings back the Kents. Since I think they are great chara and to basically have it that they never got sick and were around for Clark until he was an adult. Would it put too much of a crimp in Supes history to do that?



Thanks.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Niddle




> How often did Clark visit Smallville?

I don't believe he went there very often at all. Rarely if ever, most likely.

>
>
>
> Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?

Young Clark, as Superboy, took them on an "adventure vacation" to a spot nobody'd been to for a long time. Seemed a virus existed there that hadn't been seen in just as long a time.

The Kents caught it. Conveniently, only adults were affected, and teens were immune. Back home, Clark could get away with nursing them without anyone suspecting anything. Lana helped.

They died not long after returning to SMALLVILLE.

Traditionally, Martha's been shown as dying first, Jonathan a few hours (maybe once or twice depicted as a few days days) later.

>
>
>
> Did the Death of Martha and John play that much of a role in the adult Superman comics?

Jonathan. Never "John".

Clark remembered them, and it was their values that shaped his personality. He'd already been Superboy for years when the Kents died, and eventually took the name "Superman" in college, his ways of doing things pretty much established already.

>
>
>
> Did Clark still own the farm?

I seem to recall something about it being sold, but I'm not sure. Might even be thinking about the Superman movies with Reeve.

>
>
>
> Historically speaking. If during the Silver age (Before that Hateful Crisis) would it have made much of a difference if Martha and John had come back?

People coming back from the dead usually causes a bit of hubub.

>
>
>
> I remember one of the Giffen Legion issues where Saturn Girl sends Superboy away. Because she knew on this date. when Superboy went home. That the Kents would fall ill and pass away.
>
>
>
> Was it such a big deal that the Kents came back or were never gone after the Crisis? It doesn't seem to do much more than add another interplaying element to the Superman Books (Abeit an emotional one).

I think part of the thing was since Superboy had been erased and no further stories with him possible, the Kents would never have been seen again. Maybe Byrne felt we needed to see SOME interaction between Clark and his parents, and having them be alive during his adult years was a way to do that?

>
>
>
> My reasons for asking is this. I am doing a story involving Superman of the Silver age. Basically the events in the Crisis fail to happen the way they did (The whys and hows are unimportant) and the Multiple Earth's survive. But during the event I want something to happen that brings back the Kents. Since I think they are great chara and to basically have it that they never got sick and were around for Clark until he was an adult. Would it put too much of a crimp in Supes history to do that?

I don't think it'd ruin anything.

I was about to suggest ways to do it that'd make sense, and maybe not undo the existing virus/death incident, but this is your story.

I'm biting my tongue.

Please let us know when the story is done and where we can read it.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
Jon Clark




> How often did Clark visit Smallville?

As often as the stories required. It didn't seem to be a frequent thing, but when a story had him visiting it also didn't come off as something he rarely did.

>
> Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?

Summer before Clark left for college.

>
> Did the Death of Martha and John play that much of a role in the adult Superman comics?

It was mentioned at points.

One of my favorite stories had Kal-El split into two people- Clark Kent and Superman- each believing they were seperate people and always had been. The catalyst that reunited them was when Clark (who had realized the truth) having tried numerous things to restore "Superman's" memories in Smallville had them both stop at the Kent's graves. As Clark recalled their deaths it triggered the memory for both of them.

> Did Clark still own the farm?

The farm had been "gone" since just before Clark started either his Superboy career or school. Jonathan had become a storekeeper and the Kents lived in town. Clark had kept the house after their deaths partially because of all the clues it held like the secret tunnel exit, the modified basement and attic used for Superboy activites, and such.

> Historically speaking. If during the Silver age (Before that Hateful Crisis) would it have made much of a difference if Martha and John had come back?

There was a story in Action Comics shrtly after issue 500 ( I think it was issues 507 and 508) where Jonathan was returned to life for a brief period. By the end of the story everyone has forgotten his return but on some level Superman still held the feeling of being clod\ser to his father.

> I remember one of the Giffen Legion issues where Saturn Girl sends Superboy away. Because she knew on this date. when Superboy went home. That the Kents would fall ill and pass away.
>

Don't recall that specific story. Do recall a simialr one where a villian manged to devastate Superboy by leading him to a place in the 30th century where he learned how and when the Kent's would die. Saturn Girl sent him back with a subconcious suggestion to forget what he had learned and not return to the 30th Century (to avoid the risk of his rediscovering those facts).

>
> Was it such a big deal that the Kents came back or were never gone after the Crisis? It doesn't seem to do much more than add another interplaying element to the Superman Books (Abeit an emotional one).
>

Yes. The death of the Kents was the biggest "failure" of Superman's life. Think of the scene in Superman the Movie at the Jonathan's funeral- "All these wonderful things I can do ..." and factor in it being both his parents and his having almost a decade of experience as Superboy.

This is an 18 year-old kid who had saved trillions of lives across the universe and time. He has access to the technology of Krypton and the 30th Century. He's defeated sorceror's like Mordru, the schemes of Lex Luthor, and fellow survivors form Krypton who were twice his age. He can travel faster then light, survive at the core of stars, and move planets with ease. Yet for all this he is utterly powerless to save the two most important people in his life.

I hadn't noticed it until I read a fan-fic set pre-Crisis about the death of Martha Kent- but Byrne's reboot had taken a lot of emotional weight out of Superman. Byrne's version wasn't really connected to Krypton and didn't mourn it's passing in any personal sense. He's also never pushed his powers to the limit and failed. Pre-Crisis Superman was orphaned twice- once as an infant when a planet he had lived on with people he had known died and again when despite his best efforts his adopted parents died.

> My reasons for asking is this. I am doing a story involving Superman of the Silver age. Basically the events in the Crisis fail to happen the way they did (The whys and hows are unimportant) and the Multiple Earth's survive. But during the event I want something to happen that brings back the Kents. Since I think they are great chara and to basically have it that they never got sick and were around for Clark until he was an adult. Would it put too much of a crimp in Supes history to do that?


It wouldn't crimp his history but it would alter his basic characterization. Pre-Crisis he was an alien in more ways than biology. He was sort of one step removed from humanity by his powers, his responsibilities, and his sense of loss. And part of this was his reaction to losing the Kents who were the only people for most of his life who knew the real Kal-El. Everyone else knew him as either a nice but ineffective guy named Clark or as a larger-than-life hero named Superboy/man. The death of the Kents took away a part of him that never quite came back- Superboy was a lot less reserved than Superman.

Take away the death of the Kents and Superman is a more mature Superboy but one a lot less guarded and less used to pain and loss.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Commander Benson




"Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?"

"Young Clark, as Superboy, took them on an 'adventure vacation' to a spot nobody'd been to for a long time. Seemed a virus existed there that hadn't been seen in just as long a time.

"The Kents caught it. Conveniently, only adults were affected, and teens were immune. Back home, Clark could get away with nursing them without anyone suspecting anything. Lana helped.

"They died not long after returning to Smallville."



WELL, YOU'RE ALL around it, Niddle.

The story of the Kents' death was told in "The Last Days of Ma and Pa Kent", from Superman # 161 (May, 1963).

As the tale describes, Jonathan and Martha Kent are enjoying a vacation on a Caribbean island, having travelled there via a pleasure cruiser built for them by their son, Superboy. While digging for specimens to add to Jonathan's sea-shell collexion, the couple unearth a buried pirate chest containing a pair of flintlock pistols, a cutlass, and a piece of parchment. The fragment of parchment is from the diary of Pegleg Morgan, and it contains the information that on 16 July 1717, he was marooned on the very island upon which the Kents are vacationing.

When the Boy of Steel drops by to see how his foster-parents are enjoying their holiday, they ask him to take them to the past to check on what happened to Pegleg Morgan. The ever-dutiful son, Superboy surrounds the cruiser with a friction-proof bubble and transports the three of them to the date that Morgan was marooned on the island. There they discover that the infamous Blackbeard was responsible for exiling Morgan to the island. As Blackbeard puts it, "You heard me, Pegleg Morgan! You're a menace . . . a danger to my ship! We're abandoning you here on this island!"

There is a brief interlude in which Blackbeard and the rest of his crew discover Superboy's presence on the island. While his parents watch from hiding, the Boy of Steel uses his super-powers to, essentially, spook the hell out the pirates. Then he returns himself and the Kents to their own time and home to Smallville.

The next morning, the Kents awaken with raging fevers. Clark calls the family doctor who, alarmedly, calls in other physicians for consultation. Their diagnosis is that the Kents have contracted the Caribbean fever plague. What mystifies the doctors, though, is that the Caribbean fever plague has been extinct for the last one hundred years. (And, obviously, Clark cannot tell them that he had taken them on a time-trip to 1717 without revealing his Superboy identity.)

It gets worse. The Caribbean fever plague is inevitably fatal. There is no cure.

As you said, the disease affects only adults, so it doesn't raise suspicion that Clark--who is immune to the disease, anyway--is able to care for his parents. And Lana Lang pitches in.

Examining historical records, Clark learns of a possible cure--the sap of a giant orchid tree of the Brazilian jungle. As Superboy, he procures this, but it fails to cure the Kents, who have lapsed into comas.

Young Lex Luthor offers to use one of his inventions, the vibro-health restorer, on the Kents, in the hope that if Jonathan Kent, who serves on the prison parole board, survives, he will put in a good word for Luthor. Unfortunately, Luthor's device fails to restore the stricken couple to health.

Then Superboy gets the idea of casting his parents into the Phantom Zone where their lives will be preserved until he can find a cure. Retrieving the Phantom-Zone projector, he turns it on his parents. However, at this particular time, sunspot activity on our sun has created a magnetic storm on Earth, and the magnetic storm interferes with the operation of the Phantom-Zone projector. The projector has stopped working.

Martha Kent dies. Jonathan Kent regains consciousness long enough to have a final word with his son, then he passes away, as well.

As Clark goes through the details of closing out his parents' lives, he blames himself for their deaths. He feels that had he not taken them back to 1717, then they would not have contracted the Caribbean fever plague. Deciding that it was his super-powers that caused their deaths, he abandons his Superboy identity and forswears using his powers ever, again.

Clark decides to sell the Kent home (a decision he later reverses; also note, as Jon Clark pointed out, this is not the Kent farm--Pa Kent sold the farm, bought the general store, and moved his family inside Smallville's limits just before Clark was old enough to attend school). While taking inventory of his father's property, he discovers the items Ma and Pa found in the old pirate chest. Spotting the fragment from Pegleg Morgan's diary, he recalls seeing the missing piece in the museum where he had sought to find a cure for his parents.

Returning to the museum, Clark matches the two pieces of the page and discovers that Pegleg Morgan had had the Caribbean fever plague and Blackbeard marooned him on that island before he could infect the rest of the pirate captain's crew. He then asks the curator to check the museum records; Clark learns that the sea captain who donated Morgan's diary to the museum and the man who installed it the display case both died of a mysterious fever. Clark deduces that it is the diary itself which is infected with the Caribbean fever plague virus.

Therefore, Ma and Pa Kent did not contract the Caribbean fever plague because Superboy took them to the past. They were infected by the disease when they opened Morgan's chest and found the parchment--a torn page from Morgan's diary. They had inadvertently doomed themselves before Superboy arrived on the island and took them to the past.

Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths, Clark decontaminates Morgan's diary with a burst of heat vision and resumes his career as Superboy.

Also, as Jon Clark accurately pointed out, according to the pre-Crisis Superman's personal history, the Kents died in the summer following Clark's graduation from high school and before he started college.

Hope this helps.

Commander Benson



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
7th Man




Thanks so much for all of that guys. It was very insightful

I think that what you said Jon... about the importance of his parents deaths in shaping who he was. Is right on the mark. I had not thought that aspect through completely which is why I was asking the questions in the first place.

I really appreciate your input as well. It does explain Byrnes possible motives for allowing the Kents to remain living in the retconned history of the *NOW*.

Commander. yours wasn't just insightful. it was downright accurate. I really appreciate that.

Thanks guys, this is what makes these boards so good.
You all get an + for that.

7th Man



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Niddle




>
>
> WELL, YOU'RE ALL around it, Niddle.

Uhhh...

Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? \:\-p

(I don't understand the expression.)

America and the rest of the English speaking world...divided by a single language. \:\-D


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
Niddle




>
> I think that what you said Jon... about the importance of his parents deaths in shaping who he was. Is right on the mark. I had not thought that aspect through completely which is why I was asking the questions in the first place.

For a long time all there was were stories of Superman, the adult orphan.

Byrne undid that by allowing the Kents to be alive when Clark was an adult.

Does this really weaken who he is?

I don't think so.

It's enjoyable to see Clark interacting with them, being able to talk with them both, and as an adult no less.

Even as little a thing as Clark's interaction with them on the LOIS AND CLARK series came as a result of Byrne's reboot, and some of those scenes are pretty good. Superman being able to talk with his parents and continue to get their input. Priceless, especially after all those years of them being DEAD.

While them being dead pre-Crisis certainly had an effect on him (even if only when he thought about them), I just can't agree that restoring them weakened him in any way. It may have made him a little different in some ways, but he's still Superman, and he has his folks too.

If you can find a solid way to make the Kents alive during the adult years of the Silver Age Superman, more power to you. Don't kill them off so's to give him some type of "strength" as an adult. Them being there for him is a source of strength too.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
7th Man




> >
> > I think that what you said Jon... about the importance of his parents deaths in shaping who he was. Is right on the mark. I had not thought that aspect through completely which is why I was asking the questions in the first place.
>
> For a long time all there was were stories of Superman, the adult orphan.
>
> Byrne undid that by allowing the Kents to be alive when Clark was an adult.
>
> Does this really weaken who he is?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> It's enjoyable to see Clark interacting with them, being able to talk with them both, and as an adult no less.
>
> Even as little a thing as Clark's interaction with them on the LOIS AND CLARK series came as a result of Byrne's reboot, and some of those scenes are pretty good. Superman being able to talk with his parents and continue to get their input. Priceless, especially after all those years of them being DEAD.
>
> While them being dead pre-Crisis certainly had an effect on him (even if only when he thought about them), I just can't agree that restoring them weakened him in any way. It may have made him a little different in some ways, but he's still Superman, and he has his folks too.
>
> If you can find a solid way to make the Kents alive during the adult years of the Silver Age Superman, more power to you. Don't kill them off so's to give him some type of "strength" as an adult. Them being there for him is a source of strength too.

Great Points. I agree there. The more supporting chara around for the main chara. The more strength you give them in being able to develope characterization (Not that Superman needs it).

Even more food for thought.

Thanks Niddle

7th Man




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Commander Benson




"Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?"

IT JUST MEANS that you're pretty close, but not 100% spot-on. Looking at it with the eyes of one not accustomed to the idiom, I can see why one could read that as either good or bad.


Commander Benson



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Blue Beetle




> "Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?"
>
> "Young Clark, as Superboy, took them on an 'adventure vacation' to a spot nobody'd been to for a long time. Seemed a virus existed there that hadn't been seen in just as long a time.
>
> "The Kents caught it. Conveniently, only adults were affected, and teens were immune. Back home, Clark could get away with nursing them without anyone suspecting anything. Lana helped.
>
> "They died not long after returning to Smallville."

>
>
> WELL, YOU'RE ALL around it, Niddle.
>
> The story of the Kents' death was told in "The Last Days of Ma and Pa Kent", from Superman # 161 (May, 1963).
>
> As the tale describes, Jonathan and Martha Kent are enjoying a vacation on a Caribbean island, having travelled there via a pleasure cruiser built for them by their son, Superboy. While digging for specimens to add to Jonathan's sea-shell collexion, the couple unearth a buried pirate chest containing a pair of flintlock pistols, a cutlass, and a piece of parchment. The fragment of parchment is from the diary of Pegleg Morgan, and it contains the information that on 16 July 1717, he was marooned on the very island upon which the Kents are vacationing.
>
> When the Boy of Steel drops by to see how his foster-parents are enjoying their holiday, they ask him to take them to the past to check on what happened to Pegleg Morgan. The ever-dutiful son, Superboy surrounds the cruiser with a friction-proof bubble and transports the three of them to the date that Morgan was marooned on the island. There they discover that the infamous Blackbeard was responsible for exiling Morgan to the island. As Blackbeard puts it, "You heard me, Pegleg Morgan! You're a menace . . . a danger to my ship! We're abandoning you here on this island!"
>
> There is a brief interlude in which Blackbeard and the rest of his crew discover Superboy's presence on the island. While his parents watch from hiding, the Boy of Steel uses his super-powers to, essentially, spook the hell out the pirates. Then he returns himself and the Kents to their own time and home to Smallville.
>
> The next morning, the Kents awaken with raging fevers. Clark calls the family doctor who, alarmedly, calls in other physicians for consultation. Their diagnosis is that the Kents have contracted the Caribbean fever plague. What mystifies the doctors, though, is that the Caribbean fever plague has been extinct for the last one hundred years. (And, obviously, Clark cannot tell them that he had taken them on a time-trip to 1717 without revealing his Superboy identity.)
>
> It gets worse. The Caribbean fever plague is inevitably fatal. There is no cure.
>
> As you said, the disease affects only adults, so it doesn't raise suspicion that Clark--who is immune to the disease, anyway--is able to care for his parents. And Lana Lang pitches in.
>
> Examining historical records, Clark learns of a possible cure--the sap of a giant orchid tree of the Brazilian jungle. As Superboy, he procures this, but it fails to cure the Kents, who have lapsed into comas.
>
> Young Lex Luthor offers to use one of his inventions, the vibro-health restorer, on the Kents, in the hope that if Jonathan Kent, who serves on the prison parole board, survives, he will put in a good word for Luthor. Unfortunately, Luthor's device fails to restore the stricken couple to health.
>
> Then Superboy gets the idea of casting his parents into the Phantom Zone where their lives will be preserved until he can find a cure. Retrieving the Phantom-Zone projector, he turns it on his parents. However, at this particular time, sunspot activity on our sun has created a magnetic storm on Earth, and the magnetic storm interferes with the operation of the Phantom-Zone projector. The projector has stopped working.
>
> Martha Kent dies. Jonathan Kent regains consciousness long enough to have a final word with his son, then he passes away, as well.
>
> As Clark goes through the details of closing out his parents' lives, he blames himself for their deaths. He feels that had he not taken them back to 1717, then they would not have contracted the Caribbean fever plague. Deciding that it was his super-powers that caused their deaths, he abandons his Superboy identity and forswears using his powers ever, again.
>
> Clark decides to sell the Kent home (a decision he later reverses; also note, as Jon Clark pointed out, this is not the Kent farm--Pa Kent sold the farm, bought the general store, and moved his family inside Smallville's limits just before Clark was old enough to attend school). While taking inventory of his father's property, he discovers the items Ma and Pa found in the old pirate chest. Spotting the fragment from Pegleg Morgan's diary, he recalls seeing the missing piece in the museum where he had sought to find a cure for his parents.
>
> Returning to the museum, Clark matches the two pieces of the page and discovers that Pegleg Morgan had had the Caribbean fever plague and Blackbeard marooned him on that island before he could infect the rest of the pirate captain's crew. He then asks the curator to check the museum records; Clark learns that the sea captain who donated Morgan's diary to the museum and the man who installed it the display case both died of a mysterious fever. Clark deduces that it is the diary itself which is infected with the Caribbean fever plague virus.
>
> Therefore, Ma and Pa Kent did not contract the Caribbean fever plague because Superboy took them to the past. They were infected by the disease when they opened Morgan's chest and found the parchment--a torn page from Morgan's diary. They had inadvertently doomed themselves before Superboy arrived on the island and took them to the past.
>
> Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths, Clark decontaminates Morgan's diary with a burst of heat vision and resumes his career as Superboy.
>
> Also, as Jon Clark accurately pointed out, according to the pre-Crisis Superman's personal history, the Kents died in the summer following Clark's graduation from high school and before he started college.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Commander Benson
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Commander Benson




"The death of the Kents was the biggest 'failure' of Superman's life. Think of the scene in Superman the Movie at the Jonathan's funeral- 'All these wonderful things I can do ...' and factor in it being both his parents and his having almost a decade of experience as Superboy.

"This is an 18 year-old kid who had saved trillions of lives across the universe and time. He has access to the technology of Krypton and the 30th Century. He's defeated sorcerers like Mordru, the schemes of Lex Luthor, and fellow survivors form Krypton who were twice his age. He can travel faster then light, survive at the core of stars, and move planets with ease. Yet for all this he is utterly powerless to save the two most important people in his life.

"I hadn't noticed it until I read a fan-fic set pre-Crisis about the death of Martha Kent- but Byrne's reboot had taken a lot of emotional weight out of Superman. Byrne's version wasn't really connected to Krypton and didn't mourn it's passing in any personal sense. He's also never pushed his powers to the limit and failed. Pre-Crisis Superman was orphaned twice- once as an infant when a planet he had lived on with people he had known died and again when despite his best efforts his adopted parents died.

"It wouldn't crimp his history but it would alter his basic characterization. Pre-Crisis he was an alien in more ways than biology. He was sort of one step removed from humanity by his powers, his responsibilities, and his sense of loss. And part of this was his reaction to losing the Kents who were the only people for most of his life who knew the real Kal-El. Everyone else knew him as either a nice but ineffective guy named Clark or as a larger-than-life hero named Superboy/man. The death of the Kents took away a part of him that never quite came back- Superboy was a lot less reserved than Superman.

"Take away the death of the Kents and Superman is a more mature Superboy but one a lot less guarded and less used to pain and loss."




FOR YEARS, I'VE been trying to explain just why the deaths of the Kents added a needed element of pathos to the character of Superman, but I've never been able to encapsulate it as well as you have here. It states precisely my opinion on the subject.

Well said, sir.


Commander Benson


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Superman's Pal




> Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths,

I don't know, it sounds like if he'd never crafed a boat for them with his super-powers and taken them to the island they'd still be alive. So it was still his powers that killed them. Just sayin'.





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Guardian7




> > Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths,
>
> I don't know, it sounds like if he'd never crafed a boat for them with his super-powers and taken them to the island they'd still be alive. So it was still his powers that killed them. Just sayin'.
>
>
>



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Blue Beetle




> > How often did Clark visit Smallville?
>
> As often as the stories required. It didn't seem to be a frequent thing, but when a story had him visiting it also didn't come off as something he rarely did.
>
> >
> > Silver age Chronology: When did the Kents die?
>
> Summer before Clark left for college.
>
> >
> > Did the Death of Martha and John play that much of a role in the adult Superman comics?
>
> It was mentioned at points.
>
> One of my favorite stories had Kal-El split into two people- Clark Kent and Superman- each believing they were seperate people and always had been. The catalyst that reunited them was when Clark (who had realized the truth) having tried numerous things to restore "Superman's" memories in Smallville had them both stop at the Kent's graves. As Clark recalled their deaths it triggered the memory for both of them.
>
> > Did Clark still own the farm?
>
> The farm had been "gone" since just before Clark started either his Superboy career or school. Jonathan had become a storekeeper and the Kents lived in town. Clark had kept the house after their deaths partially because of all the clues it held like the secret tunnel exit, the modified basement and attic used for Superboy activites, and such.
>
> > Historically speaking. If during the Silver age (Before that Hateful Crisis) would it have made much of a difference if Martha and John had come back?
>
> There was a story in Action Comics shrtly after issue 500 ( I think it was issues 507 and 508) where Jonathan was returned to life for a brief period. By the end of the story everyone has forgotten his return but on some level Superman still held the feeling of being clod\ser to his father.
>
> > I remember one of the Giffen Legion issues where Saturn Girl sends Superboy away. Because she knew on this date. when Superboy went home. That the Kents would fall ill and pass away.
> >
>
> Don't recall that specific story. Do recall a simialr one where a villian manged to devastate Superboy by leading him to a place in the 30th century where he learned how and when the Kent's would die. Saturn Girl sent him back with a subconcious suggestion to forget what he had learned and not return to the 30th Century (to avoid the risk of his rediscovering those facts).
>
> >
> > Was it such a big deal that the Kents came back or were never gone after the Crisis? It doesn't seem to do much more than add another interplaying element to the Superman Books (Abeit an emotional one).
> >
>
> Yes. The death of the Kents was the biggest "failure" of Superman's life. Think of the scene in Superman the Movie at the Jonathan's funeral- "All these wonderful things I can do ..." and factor in it being both his parents and his having almost a decade of experience as Superboy.
>
> This is an 18 year-old kid who had saved trillions of lives across the universe and time. He has access to the technology of Krypton and the 30th Century. He's defeated sorceror's like Mordru, the schemes of Lex Luthor, and fellow survivors form Krypton who were twice his age. He can travel faster then light, survive at the core of stars, and move planets with ease. Yet for all this he is utterly powerless to save the two most important people in his life.
>
> I hadn't noticed it until I read a fan-fic set pre-Crisis about the death of Martha Kent- but Byrne's reboot had taken a lot of emotional weight out of Superman. Byrne's version wasn't really connected to Krypton and didn't mourn it's passing in any personal sense. He's also never pushed his powers to the limit and failed. Pre-Crisis Superman was orphaned twice- once as an infant when a planet he had lived on with people he had known died and again when despite his best efforts his adopted parents died.
>
> > My reasons for asking is this. I am doing a story involving Superman of the Silver age. Basically the events in the Crisis fail to happen the way they did (The whys and hows are unimportant) and the Multiple Earth's survive. But during the event I want something to happen that brings back the Kents. Since I think they are great chara and to basically have it that they never got sick and were around for Clark until he was an adult. Would it put too much of a crimp in Supes history to do that?
>
>
> It wouldn't crimp his history but it would alter his basic characterization. Pre-Crisis he was an alien in more ways than biology. He was sort of one step removed from humanity by his powers, his responsibilities, and his sense of loss. And part of this was his reaction to losing the Kents who were the only people for most of his life who knew the real Kal-El. Everyone else knew him as either a nice but ineffective guy named Clark or as a larger-than-life hero named Superboy/man. The death of the Kents took away a part of him that never quite came back- Superboy was a lot less reserved than Superman.
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> Take away the death of the Kents and Superman is a more mature Superboy but one a lot less guarded and less used to pain and loss.
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Commander Benson




"Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths . . . ."

"I don't know, it sounds like if he'd never crafed a boat for them with his super-powers and taken them to the island they'd still be alive. So it was still his powers that killed them. Just sayin'."



THAT'S A BIT of a reach. Yes, Superboy built the pleasure cruiser for his parents, but he didn't take them to the island where they found Pegleg Morgan's chest, and thus became infected with the Caribbean fever plague. The Kents travelled to that island on their own.

If John buys his parents a brand new car, and on the next week-end, Mom and Dad take it out for a drive, and then by sheer chance, hit a slick of oil in the roadway, lose control, and crash into a tree, killing them both, is John (and his healthy bank account) responsible for their deaths? Not really. There's no way something like that could possibly be foreseen.

The same thing with Superboy building his parents a pleasure cruiser. If instead, Clark had simply saved his money and bought it for them, would he be responsible? I think not, and I don't think there's a difference.


Commander Benson


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Superman's Pal




> "Knowing now that his super-powers were not responsible for his parents' deaths . . . ."
>
> "I don't know, it sounds like if he'd never crafed a boat for them with his super-powers and taken them to the island they'd still be alive. So it was still his powers that killed them. Just sayin'."
>
>
>
> THAT'S A BIT of a reach. Yes, Superboy built the pleasure cruiser for his parents, but he didn't take them to the island where they found Pegleg Morgan's chest, and thus became infected with the Caribbean fever plague. The Kents travelled to that island on their own.
>
> If John buys his parents a brand new car, and on the next week-end, Mom and Dad take it out for a drive, and then by sheer chance, hit a slick of oil in the roadway, lose control, and crash into a tree, killing them both, is John (and his healthy bank account) responsible for their deaths? Not really. There's no way something like that could possibly be foreseen.
>
> The same thing with Superboy building his parents a pleasure cruiser. If instead, Clark had simply saved his money and bought it for them, would he be responsible? I think not, and I don't think there's a difference.

Obviously, I don't think it was his fault any way you slice it. Just because he used his super-powers to take them through time, it's not his fault they contracted a disease (especially with the last-minute revelation that that's not what caused it in the first place). I think it was irrational for Superboy to blame himself, but the point is, he blamed the powers since the trip (through time) was made possible by his powers. Wouldn't it make as much sense (i.e. none, but to an irrational mind) to blame his powers for enabling the trip overseas?





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