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The Lurker




Hey guys! I'm relatively new to Superman comics, but I had a quick question about Lex Luthor. Has the dude ever killed? If so, when? (I'm sure he has, but he seems to pull the whole Dr. Evil and lazer-beam shark trap a lot more often then actually killing someone!)


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Johnny Sarcastic




> Hey guys! I'm relatively new to Superman comics, but I had a quick question about Lex Luthor. Has the dude ever killed? If so, when? (I'm sure he has, but he seems to pull the whole Dr. Evil and lazer-beam shark trap a lot more often then actually killing someone!)

Lex Luthor ran a project called the 'Everyman' program during 52, which was a program that allowed most anyone to become 'super' in some way, shape, or form.

He built them all with kill-switches for their powers, and essentially 'turned them off', causing thousands of them to drop out of the sky, killing not only them but the people on the ground they hit.

Does that count?


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Peter Svensson




He nuked his ex-wife. (President Lex Secret Files)
He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)
He murdered his parents. (In some versions of continuity.)

Lex has killed many, many people.

Peter Svensson


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Superman's Pal




> He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)

Although she later came back to life, so he may not be able to be held liable for that.

> Lex has killed many, many people.

Did he have a hand in the death of Perry White's son?





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omike015




> > He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)
>
> Although she later came back to life, so he may not be able to be held liable for that.

He was tried for it, wasn't he? Sometime around ACTION #700 and "The Fall of Metropolis" arc?

omike015
:-|



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Superman's Pal




> > > He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)
> >
> > Although she later came back to life, so he may not be able to be held liable for that.
>
> He was tried for it, wasn't he? Sometime around ACTION #700 and "The Fall of Metropolis" arc?

I don't remember, was that part of his trial? How can you be tried for the murder of someone who isn't dead? Well, attempted murder, I guess. I thought most of what he was being tried for was the destruction of Metropolis, but I thought he blamed as much of that as he could on what's-his-nut, Happersen? And the rest on his clone.





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Omar Karindu





> > Lex has killed many, many people.
>
> Did he have a hand in the death of Perry White's son?

No; Perry's son (who was biologically Lex's son thanks to an affair with Perry's wife) was slain by the demoness Blaze after getting entangled in a plot of hers thanks to his drug addiction. Lex irrationally blamed Perry White for this, reasoning that if Lex had raised the kid, he'd never have fallen into drugs in the first place. Because if there's one thing Luthor is, it's a good role model....

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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omike015




> > > > He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)
> > >
> > > Although she later came back to life, so he may not be able to be held liable for that.
> >
> > He was tried for it, wasn't he? Sometime around ACTION #700 and "The Fall of Metropolis" arc?
>
> I don't remember, was that part of his trial? How can you be tried for the murder of someone who isn't dead? Well, attempted murder, I guess.

He murdered her. The Bloodlines McGuffin brought her back, which was a seperate storyline.

> I thought most of what he was being tried for was the destruction of Metropolis, but I thought he blamed as much of that as he could on what's-his-nut, Happersen? And the rest on his clone.


I'll have to look. I don't recall the details.

omike015
:-|



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Superman's Pal




>
> > > Lex has killed many, many people.
> >
> > Did he have a hand in the death of Perry White's son?
>
> No; Perry's son (who was biologically Lex's son thanks to an affair with Perry's wife) was slain by the demoness Blaze after getting entangled in a plot of hers thanks to his drug addiction. Lex irrationally blamed Perry White for this, reasoning that if Lex had raised the kid, he'd never have fallen into drugs in the first place. Because if there's one thing Luthor is, it's a good role model....

Well, he did do a swell job raising Lex Luthor II, that red-headed fella ...

Anyway, thanks, I knew there was some connection with Lex, Perry and Perry's son, but couldn't remember.





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Superman's Pal




> > I don't remember, was that part of his trial? How can you be tried for the murder of someone who isn't dead? Well, attempted murder, I guess.
>
> He murdered her. The Bloodlines McGuffin brought her back, which was a seperate storyline.

Yeah but, given the compressed nature of the story (at the end of the year-long event doesn't Lois say "it's been a rough couple of weeks" or something to that effect?) then by the time she came back to life, only a day or two had passed. Did anyone even realize she was gone or that a murder had taken place? I'll have to reread that annual.





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Niddle




Unless there's been a post-IC reference to this that I've missed, with Lex having been "Birthrighted" to an age closer to Clark's, he may not have HAD an affair with Perry's wife, so the son may have actually been Perry's in the current timeline...

...if Perry's son even existed at all.


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Harry Osborn




> > > I don't remember, was that part of his trial? How can you be tried for the murder of someone who isn't dead? Well, attempted murder, I guess.
> >
> > He murdered her. The Bloodlines McGuffin brought her back, which was a seperate storyline.
>
> Yeah but, given the compressed nature of the story (at the end of the year-long event doesn't Lois say "it's been a rough couple of weeks" or something to that effect?) then by the time she came back to life, only a day or two had passed. Did anyone even realize she was gone or that a murder had taken place? I'll have to reread that annual.
>
>
>


Had to be longer than two days. She was 'killed' during Funeral for a Friend, and was stil presumed dead in the issues following Superman's return. I'm fairly certain everything involving the replacement Superman took much longer than two days.


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Niddle





>
> I'm fairly certain everything involving the replacement Superman took much longer than two days.

I've been told here our year of Superman being dead was three months for the characters.

Don't know where that's established, tho'.

Would like to know for future reference, however. If anyone knows...


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Superman's Pal




>
> >
> > I'm fairly certain everything involving the replacement Superman took much longer than two days.
>
> I've been told here our year of Superman being dead was three months for the characters.
>
> Don't know where that's established, tho'.
>
> Would like to know for future reference, however. If anyone knows...

I think Sinestro recently said everything from his imprisonment in the CPB to his escape in Emerald Twilight was just "a few months." I'll look for that reference though before finalizing that quote.





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Niddle




>
> I think Sinestro recently said everything from his imprisonment in the CPB to his escape in Emerald Twilight was just "a few months." I'll look for that reference though before finalizing that quote.

And where would Superman's fight with Doomsday, his "death", the appearance of Steel, Kon-El, etc, Superman's return and the Coast City incident fall in that period? Right at the end?


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omike015




> >
> > I think Sinestro recently said everything from his imprisonment in the CPB to his escape in Emerald Twilight was just "a few months." I'll look for that reference though before finalizing that quote.
>
> And where would Superman's fight with Doomsday, his "death", the appearance of Steel, Kon-El, etc, Superman's return and the Coast City incident fall in that period? Right at the end?

I don't know how Sinestro's activities fit in, but from Superman's death to his return was (at the time) all supposed to have taken place in four to six weeks. Remember, Superman was finding survivors from Doomsday's rampage when he returned. Clark Kent's extended absence was also explained that way after "Superman" (Supergirl in diguise) "found" him in a collapsed building. The first few issues after Superman's return might narrow it down a bit more, but I'm pretty confident the whole storyline was no more than a month and a half in the characters' time.

But, getting back to the other topic -- Lex's murder of Sasha -- I'll definately have to research that.

omike015
:-|



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panther7




> He nuked his ex-wife. (President Lex Secret Files)
> He shot a woman just because she offended him in the gym. (World Without a Superman.)

I assume this is references Sasha's murder during Funeral for a Friend.
I thought he killed her with his bare hands?

That was always a chilling scene for me. Lex standing over Superman's coffin and braggin how he just murdered someone because he could.


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Niddle





>
> ...from Superman's death to his return was (at the time) all supposed to have taken place in four to six weeks...

Now, see, this is the second estimate I've heard. The last time it was suggested to me as being about three months.

I wish they'd say something about that. I'd guess the length you suggest might make more sense, what with people still being found alive in bomb shelters after Superman returned, tho' on the other hand the amount of hair growth Clark had looks a little more than six weeks' worth. (I'm not even sure three months would explain it, tho'. \:\-p )


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darth-sinister




>
> >
> > ...from Superman's death to his return was (at the time) all supposed to have taken place in four to six weeks...
>
> Now, see, this is the second estimate I've heard. The last time it was suggested to me as being about three months.
>
> I wish they'd say something about that. I'd guess the length you suggest might make more sense, what with people still being found alive in bomb shelters after Superman returned, tho' on the other hand the amount of hair growth Clark had looks a little more than six weeks' worth. (I'm not even sure three months would explain it, tho'. \:\-p )


In Adventures Of Superman #505, Lois said that everything that had occured over the last month was like a bad nightmare. So according to her, everything from the moment we first see Doomsday break free to right then, was all supposed to be a month. Comics generally like to cram a lot of stuff into a month's time.


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Niddle




> In Adventures Of Superman #505, Lois said that everything that had occured over the last month was like a bad nightmare. So according to her, everything from the moment we first see Doomsday break free to right then, was all supposed to be a month. Comics generally like to cram a lot of stuff into a month's time.

I bow to your better memory, and thank you for the specifics.

Hey...

If nobody who knew Clark noticed his hair was a lot longer than a month's normal growth would explain (and that it was just as long as Superman's) then I won't worry about it either. \:\-D

Besides...

INFINITE CRISIS TIME REVISION, AND RET-CON PUNCH!!!!


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Superman's Pal




> > In Adventures Of Superman #505, Lois said that everything that had occured over the last month was like a bad nightmare. So according to her, everything from the moment we first see Doomsday break free to right then, was all supposed to be a month. Comics generally like to cram a lot of stuff into a month's time.

I think that's the reference I had in mind, thanks for confirming. A little longer than I thought but not too much.

> If nobody who knew Clark noticed his hair was a lot longer than a month's normal growth would explain (and that it was just as long as Superman's) then I won't worry about it either. \:\-D

Well, no one seemed to notice that his hair grew several inches while his beard only grew a few days' worth of stubble.





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Uninvited Guest




...you know, when he was dating Matrix-Supergirl.
She (the martial arts teacher) later came back as some sort of undead personality-copycat or some weird thing like that in one of those Bloodlines annuals.



"Ladies and gentlemen! You've read about it in the newspapers! Now, shudder as you observe, before your very eyes, that most rare and tragic of nature's mistakes! I give you... the average man!"
(by Joker, from The Killing Joke).


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Niddle




Since Lex is now most likely NOT old enough to have had a 21 year old son at that point, and since at least one flashback seems to have shown the usual adult bald Lex being the source of Kon-El's human DNA, then it seems Lex Jr. may have been edited out of the timeline.

I think even the "Look....Up in the Sky..." documentary shows some panels from back during the Lex Jr. period, and the pictures seem to have been reworked so that Lex is BALD in them, with Matrix inches away.

Oh well, I guess if she could fall for him in a beard and think he looked like her creator (the Pocket Universe Lex), I guess she could also fall for him BALD and think the same thing.


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darth-sinister




> > In Adventures Of Superman #505, Lois said that everything that had occured over the last month was like a bad nightmare. So according to her, everything from the moment we first see Doomsday break free to right then, was all supposed to be a month. Comics generally like to cram a lot of stuff into a month's time.
>
> I bow to your better memory, and thank you for the specifics.
>
> Hey...
>
> If nobody who knew Clark noticed his hair was a lot longer than a month's normal growth would explain (and that it was just as long as Superman's) then I won't worry about it either. \:\-D
>
> Besides...
>
> INFINITE CRISIS TIME REVISION, AND RET-CON PUNCH!!!!


Supergirl/Matrix posed as Clark while Superman freed him. They both then took a picture together with Lois, done by Jimmy. Since Clark had been buried for a month, they could understand his hair being longer. Superman's long hair would be a factor in "Dead Again". How this works post "Infinite Crisis" hasn't been said yet. Though I'd wager that it'd be J'onn.


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darth-sinister




> Unless there's been a post-IC reference to this that I've missed, with Lex having been "Birthrighted" to an age closer to Clark's, he may not have HAD an affair with Perry's wife, so the son may have actually been Perry's in the current timeline...
>
> ...if Perry's son even existed at all.

I think Jerry existed, but being related to Lex probably not.


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Niddle




>
>
> Supergirl/Matrix posed as Clark while Superman freed him. They both then took a picture together with Lois, done by Jimmy. Since Clark had been buried for a month, they could understand his hair being longer.

Not as long as it was shown as being. That growth was more than one month's worth. Also, Matrix made Clark's hair be as long as Superman's since it appears they all knew Clark [the real one] would next be seen with that same hair length.

>
>
> Superman's long hair would be a factor in "Dead Again". How this works post "Infinite Crisis" hasn't been said yet. Though I'd wager that it'd be J'onn.

Or one of Superman's robots, since Silver Age elements are being restored. \:\-D

Then again, we STILL don't have a final answer on whether or not Matrix ever existed. (Even if the Pocket Universe didn't she could have been created in the mainstream DCU, and have a slightly different origin, but still end up becoming Supergirl for a while.)


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omike015




> Then again, we STILL don't have a final answer on whether or not Matrix ever existed.

The last word we heard from creators/DC brass was that she did. There's been nothing in the books (that I recall) that said she didn't.

So, yeah. She did.

omike015
:-|



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omike015




> > Unless there's been a post-IC reference to this that I've missed, with Lex having been "Birthrighted" to an age closer to Clark's, he may not have HAD an affair with Perry's wife, so the son may have actually been Perry's in the current timeline...
> >
> > ...if Perry's son even existed at all.
>
> I think Jerry existed,

A better question might be: "Does Keith?"

omike015
:-|



kandor.monkeylord.net (10.0.1.245)
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darth-sinister




> > Then again, we STILL don't have a final answer on whether or not Matrix ever existed.
>
> The last word we heard from creators/DC brass was that she did. There's been nothing in the books (that I recall) that said she didn't.
>
> So, yeah. She did.
>
> omike015
> \:\-\|

Dan DiDio says no, but Geoff Johns says yes. We'll have to wait and see.


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darth-sinister




> >
> >
> > Supergirl/Matrix posed as Clark while Superman freed him. They both then took a picture together with Lois, done by Jimmy. Since Clark had been buried for a month, they could understand his hair being longer.
>
> Not as long as it was shown as being. That growth was more than one month's worth. Also, Matrix made Clark's hair be as long as Superman's since it appears they all knew Clark [the real one] would next be seen with that same hair length.

Duh, but for both Clark and Superman, it's one month even if it looks longer than a month. Like I said, both DC and Marvel began the one month theory for story arcs during the early 90's. The events of the Knight Trilogy over in the Batman books was said to have been a month or two. Yet we clearly see large passages of time.

>Superman's long hair would be a factor in "Dead Again". How this works post "Infinite Crisis" hasn't been said yet. Though I'd wager that it'd be J'onn.
>
> Or one of Superman's robots, since Silver Age elements are being restored. \:\-D

Uh, Clark had been tested to determine if he was in fine physical shape. So unless Clark made the robots to be 100% organic enough to fool a doctor, I'd doubt it. J'onn, like Matrix, could.


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Niddle





>
> Uh, Clark had been tested to determine if he was in fine physical shape. So unless Clark made the robots to be 100% organic enough to fool a doctor, I'd doubt it. J'onn, like Matrix, could.

Maybe Clark refused the medical exam in the new timeline? \:\-p


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