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Navin




Why isn't Superman a hero to Kryptonians? Did he not single handedly defeat Brainic and set them free? I must be missing something.


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KET




You are. That dialogue line from The Incredibles: "If everyone is super, then no one will be."

Also, Supergirl's mom helped create an entirely new planet for her people to live on. So who's REALLY 'super' now?


KET


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darth-sinister





    Quote:
    Why isn't Superman a hero to Kryptonians? Did he not single handedly defeat Brainic and set them free? I must be missing something.


He was seen as a hero after Kandor was restored. But then they saw him for what he really is, a Kryptonian raised as a human. Someone who is naive in his way of thinking, trying to make the Kryptonians adapt to the humans and how he handled his enemies in the past. However, Clark was beginning to gain ground for the way he handled Commander Gor, the Labor Guild hostage situation, taking down Val-Ty and the way he handled himself on trial. But Zod is seen as the bigger hero because he fought without super powers against the Brainiac probes and was willing to risk everything in order to rescue Kandor from Brainiac. He went against the ruling council with his insurrection. And now that he's been wounded, he's practically a martyr.

Clark is a hero to Earth because of the example that he set upon his public debut, the sacrifice he made against Doomsday and the inspiration to countless people. But that is because he was raised on Earth, not Krypton.


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Navin




I suppose that makes sense but Zod had ample opportunities to seek out Brainic on any of his many escapes from the Phantom Zone. Fact is, he did not. A Kryptonian raised on Earth risked everything to free them. I'm also a bit confused by the fact I've not read anything about them in Action Comics. One would think Kon El might want to discover the other half of his biology by visiting New Krypton. It would be interesting to see how Kryptonians would receive the clone of Kal El.


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Sandman


Member Since: Fri Oct 03, 2008



    Quote:
    I suppose that makes sense but Zod had ample opportunities to seek out Brainic on any of his many escapes from the Phantom Zone. Fact is, he did not. A Kryptonian raised on Earth risked everything to free them. I'm also a bit confused by the fact I've not read anything about them in Action Comics. One would think Kon El might want to discover the other half of his biology by visiting New Krypton. It would be interesting to see how Kryptonians would receive the clone of Kal El.


Very poorly I believe since he's half-human. Even though they're not Xenophobic like their cousins the daximites, they have been living in a solitude life, like laws against space travel, and they don't know how to react to alien cultures which is why they took Superman's enemies and put them in the phantom zone which ended up getting some security guards killed which his aunt seemed to think was insignificant because they weren't kryptonian and even called earth New Krypton while his uncle, who wasn't that bad, said they had plans to bring the humans into kryptonian culture even though this is their native planet which means they were here first while Superman wasn't trying to change his people, but get them and the humans to understand each other's culture to prevent misunderstanding, especially since his people are god-like under the yellow sun and are like children because of their overdependent to their advance technology, except maybe the labor guild who seem more mature because of a a lack of a ego problem and do see Superman as a hero.

The point is, kryptonians don't do well with change and believe their culture are above all others.

ComicMonsters
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darth-sinister





    Quote:
    I suppose that makes sense but Zod had ample opportunities to seek out Brainic on any of his many escapes from the Phantom Zone. Fact is, he did not. A Kryptonian raised on Earth risked everything to free them. I'm also a bit confused by the fact I've not read anything about them in Action Comics. One would think Kon El might want to discover the other half of his biology by visiting New Krypton. It would be interesting to see how Kryptonians would receive the clone of Kal El.


Zod has only been out of the Phantom Zone twice. The first time was in "Last Son" and the second time is right now. The Zod of the Pocket Universe was dead and gone. The Zod from "Return To Krypton" was a creation of Brainiac 13 and had no issues with Brainiac. Probably doesn't exist anymore based on Krypto's biography and the hints that have been dropped. The Russian Zod wasn't truly Zod. The Zod of "For Tomorrow" doesn't exist, replaced by the current Zod. And that Zod would've gone after Brainiac after he finished with Earth. Revenge on Superman and the taking of Earth was his first priority. Brainiac would be the second one. And yes, Clark risked a lot. But he's also been the disappointment to them based on his actions. Right now, he's trying to prove himself and it's a tricky road.

As to Conner, he's more interested in trying to understand Lex than he is about New Krypton. He knows about it, but he has his own priorities right now. Besides, his biology is Clark. Not Krypton as a whole. He's never been entirely into Krypton until midway through his monthly series, when he used the simulation to check it out.


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rc




We have heroes among us, and we're all equal. All sorts of people -- fire fighters, crippled scientists, single moms, etc. -- are heroes.

Like Superman said in Infinite Crisis, it's not about strength, but about what one does.

_rc


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KET




An ad hominem response doesn't actually address the original question in regards to the story. But thanks for playing anyway.


KET


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Omar Karindu


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242


Ad hominem does not refer to either arguments that anthropomorphize or to arguments that invoke common humanity; it refers exclusively to the fallacy of attacking the arguer's person rather than the argument's premises. It's a form of non sequitur, actually; a person's character does not impact the objective validity of their truth-claims or premises. But rc didn't attack you or even mention you in his argument.

As far as I can tell, his argument was more along the lines that the "everyone's super, no one is" line is specious. He makes this argument by pointing out that it's possible to stand out as a hero among people with essentially the same level of physical ability, and that this was therefore a specious reason to say that the Kryptonians would not consider Superman a hero.

However, this did not address many of the specific details you used to build your case. It's more an example of countering a minor point in an argument without addressing more major points, an entirely different species of problem that may not even constitute a true fallacy of logic, let alone an example of ad hominem.

That said, your strongest support rests more on the difference in the Kryptonian perspective and culture -- Superman is no hero to them because his heroism is not on their behalf, at least not as they understand matters -- than on a line from The Incredibles. Lara and Zd seem to be heroes to the Kryptonians of Kandor, after all, and they possess the same level of "superness" as everyone else in the society that considers them such.




- Omar Karindu
"For your information, I don't have an ego. My Facebook photo is a landscape."
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Navin




My head is spinning. As usual, you're a wealth of information. Not sure now why I thought Zod had escaped mulitple times. Thanks.


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