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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 3,528


Has anyone else heard that they're going to forego Williams' Superman theme in the new movie?




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rc




Time to bury the last vestige of the Donner movies and move on, I say. I'd like to see what other talented composers could come up with.

_rc


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omike015 

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    Quote:
    Time to bury the last vestige of the Donner movies and move on, I say. I'd like to see what other talented composers could come up with.


Yep yep. I love the Donner theme. It will always be synonymous with Superman. But it's time to move on and find something new. It -- or motifs from it -- has been used in five Superman movies, a Supergirl movie, "Smallville" and a slew of other projects official and unofficial. Just like it is set apart from the equally synonymous "Adventures of Superman" theme, the next Superman itteration needs a new take, as well.

In fact, I'll take it a step farther and say everything unique from the Reeve movie needs to be left gracefully in the past. The score. The Christopher Reeve lookalike Superman. The ice crystal Krypton. "Kneel before Zod." All of it.

Stay true... but do something new or go home.




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Dave M




I agree with all of that, though would have a slight concession by integrating some of the Williams score into the film in the form of the incidental music, even if just for one scene.
Reall though as you say it does need an all new broom taken to it and I would assume that is the exact intent as clearly the last film showed the fatigue of the Donner/Reeve formula. It's been done to death and what's needed is a more radical take now.


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jwd






    Quote:

      Quote:
      Time to bury the last vestige of the Donner movies and move on, I say. I'd like to see what other talented composers could come up with.



    Quote:
    Yep yep. I love the Donner theme. It will always be synonymous with Superman. But it's time to move on and find something new. It -- or motifs from it -- has been used in five Superman movies, a Supergirl movie, "Smallville" and a slew of other projects official and unofficial. Just like it is set apart from the equally synonymous "Adventures of Superman" theme, the next Superman itteration needs a new take, as well.



    Quote:
    In fact, I'll take it a step farther and say everything unique from the Reeve movie needs to be left gracefully in the past. The score. The Christopher Reeve lookalike Superman. The ice crystal Krypton. "Kneel before Zod." All of it.



    Quote:
    Stay true... but do something new or go home.


As much as I love all that stuff I have to agree with you. If I hear the Williams' music or see the ice crystal fortress it will instantly take me back to the Christopher Reeve Superman movies and then I'll be complaining about how they're not doing as good of a job.

The best thing they can do is get me into a movie where I'm so absorbed in it that I'm not even thinking about or comparing it to the Superman movies of the past.









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RAB


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,260


A few weeks after Snyder was revealed as Director, IIRC.

It's why, although I don't have a whole lot of faith in this new movie, I'm not envious of them. Because no matter what direction you go (all new narrative or a Singer-like continuation of the '78 film), you will always be compared to the Donner film... from acting, to score, ETC.

So the guys are screwed no matter which way they go; because it'll be hard to top what is arguably one of all time great film scores (the only score that beats it, IMO, is the Lawrence of Arabia score...) and if they just riff on it, they'll get crap for it too.

Personally, I'm more worried/pissed about the fact that instead of trying to really make a different and distinct looking Krypton (which is why I've always loved the Donner version... because a crystalline world IS a unique and out there visual), they've been quoted that the Krypton of this movie is going to be like Coruscant from Star Wars.

So you're throwing away a unique visual (and vastly under-explored technology) for a generic city-scape from another film. Whoopie.




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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 3,528


Well, I'm in the minority here. If I was the director, I'd want to incorporate as much as possible, rather than bring a broom, but perhaps the past films are just too much to reconcile with a new one. For the first time ever, I honestly feel that I'm becoming too old for this stuff.




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chrisk7877




such as Supes having a kid, not to mention shaking up his whole relationship with Lois, amongst a few other minor points. It'll be interesting to see what the fanboys have to say about it on the messageboards after it comes out, that's for sure.

I don't think DC has any clue what the moviegoing public is willing to pay for, and i'm not sure the fans know what they want either. I really hate it for Brandon Routh that he didn't get another chance, because I think he'd have worked fine with whatever direction they wanted to go in, but it is what it is.



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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    A few weeks after Snyder was revealed as Director, IIRC.



    Quote:
    It's why, although I don't have a whole lot of faith in this new movie, I'm not envious of them. Because no matter what direction you go (all new narrative or a Singer-like continuation of the '78 film), you will always be compared to the Donner film... from acting, to score, ETC.



    Quote:
    So the guys are screwed no matter which way they go; because it'll be hard to top what is arguably one of all time great film scores (the only score that beats it, IMO, is the Lawrence of Arabia score...) and if they just riff on it, they'll get crap for it too.



    Quote:
    Personally, I'm more worried/pissed about the fact that instead of trying to really make a different and distinct looking Krypton (which is why I've always loved the Donner version... because a crystalline world IS a unique and out there visual), they've been quoted that the Krypton of this movie is going to be like Coruscant from Star Wars.



    Quote:
    So you're throwing away a unique visual (and vastly under-explored technology) for a generic city-scape from another film. Whoopie.


Not only that, but it also looks like they will spend at least 40 minutes retelling Superman's origin. \:\(

If I had been in control of this movie, I'd retell Superman's origin in the credits the same way the Incredible Hulk was when Ed Norton starred as Bruce Banner. That was brilliant move by that team and I REALLY wish they do it here.

We don't need to see Superman's origin retold, we all know it by heart. Yet, all signs point to it. The Kents being cast, even Clark's biological parents are now going to be in the movie. So it looks like half the movie is going to be an introction/origin when we really DON'T need one before we get to the good part, provided Snyder can even deliver on that part. Which I'm doubting it considering the direction this movie is already headed in.

Out of ALL the villians that could have been used, Snyder HAD to go with Zod. Don't get me wrong, Zod is a great villian, but we've all already SEEN Zod in Superman II. I don't care that this movie is a reboot and has nothing to do with the Reeve films, we don't need to see Zod again. I really wish they had used someone that hasn't been used yet, like Metallo, Brainiac or even Doomsday. *Shakes head*

Even though I'm fine with a no crystaline Krypton, your not alone in hating the direction this movie is going in.

Worse, DC is having a reboot. Chances are, that will affect the movie and we'll be seeing Henry Cavill in the rebooted Superman costume and not his classic look. \:\(

The more I hear about this movie, the more I will not even bother seeing it.

On a side note: EVERY future Superman movie will always be compared to Donnor's films and every actor who dons the cape will be compared to Christopher Reeve. I really wish people would just let these movies and these actors shine on their own without comparing them to the past movies/actor. The movies/actor do fine on their own and in their own way.




It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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jwd






    Quote:
    A few weeks after Snyder was revealed as Director, IIRC.



    Quote:
    It's why, although I don't have a whole lot of faith in this new movie, I'm not envious of them. Because no matter what direction you go (all new narrative or a Singer-like continuation of the '78 film), you will always be compared to the Donner film... from acting, to score, ETC.


I think it's possible. Extremely difficult but possible. I mean I liked the '89 Batman movie when it came out and when I went to Batman Begins once it started I wasn't even thinking about the '89 Batman. Now granted my love of the '89 Batman movie pales in comparison to the '78 Superman movie so it'll be more difficult to keep from comparing the two.



    Quote:
    So the guys are screwed no matter which way they go; because it'll be hard to top what is arguably one of all time great film scores (the only score that beats it, IMO, is the Lawrence of Arabia score...) and if they just riff on it, they'll get crap for it too.


My question will be - Is John Williams going to do the new score too? I love all his movie scores but to me they all have a similar sound to them.


    Quote:
    Personally, I'm more worried/pissed about the fact that instead of trying to really make a different and distinct looking Krypton (which is why I've always loved the Donner version... because a crystalline world IS a unique and out there visual), they've been quoted that the Krypton of this movie is going to be like Coruscant from Star Wars.


I really don't care what Krypton looks like and would prefer they not spend more then a few minutes there. Parents smile at baby in ship. Ship launches. Ka-boom. Space. Kent farm.







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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 3,528


Superman I and II were the first comic book films featuring the first conic book hero. They were very successful. They remain well-loved by both new and old viewers. It's nit different than a new James Bond being compared to an older one. The trick is That once the new Bond establishes himself, the comparisons usually stop. Until that happens, the Superman comparisons will continue.




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RAB


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,260



    Quote:


      Quote:
      A few weeks after Snyder was revealed as Director, IIRC.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        It's why, although I don't have a whole lot of faith in this new movie, I'm not envious of them. Because no matter what direction you go (all new narrative or a Singer-like continuation of the '78 film), you will always be compared to the Donner film... from acting, to score, ETC.



    Quote:
    I think it's possible. Extremely difficult but possible. I mean I liked the '89 Batman movie when it came out and when I went to Batman Begins once it started I wasn't even thinking about the '89 Batman. Now granted my love of the '89 Batman movie pales in comparison to the '78 Superman movie so it'll be more difficult to keep from comparing the two.


It's possible, but this is one of the few characters that I see the television (and even animated!) versions compared to the look/feel of the movie version virtually everywhere I go online. Seriously, I look at random Superman related stuff on Youtube and discussions will pop up on Chris Reeves iteration!

The level of fanaticism in regards to Chris Reeves version of Superman is pretty amazing to me... about the only thing I've seen nearly on the same level is Bill Bixby's portrayal of Bruce Banner in the Hulk TV series.


    Quote:


      Quote:
      So the guys are screwed no matter which way they go; because it'll be hard to top what is arguably one of all time great film scores (the only score that beats it, IMO, is the Lawrence of Arabia score...) and if they just riff on it, they'll get crap for it too.



    Quote:
    My question will be - Is John Williams going to do the new score too? I love all his movie scores but to me they all have a similar sound to them.


Nope, from what I understand they want to go with someone completely different. There were rumors Hans Zimmer was attached to do it.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Personally, I'm more worried/pissed about the fact that instead of trying to really make a different and distinct looking Krypton (which is why I've always loved the Donner version... because a crystalline world IS a unique and out there visual), they've been quoted that the Krypton of this movie is going to be like Coruscant from Star Wars.



    Quote:
    I really don't care what Krypton looks like and would prefer they not spend more then a few minutes there. Parents smile at baby in ship. Ship launches. Ka-boom. Space. Kent farm.


Personally, I don't want an origin story at all. No planet going ka-boom and no Kent Farm, unless it's a grown up Clark already Superman visiting his Ma, Pa, or both.

What I do want is that if we go to/see the Fortress of Solitude, it doesn't look like something we've seen from a million other Sci-Fi films or stories. No Buck Rogers/Flash Gordan style and no Star Wars. I want technology being used that is unique and sets Superman and his Kryptonian society apart.

I just don't like the fact that it sounds like their 'hacking' certain aspects. If they're willing to copy or steal a look from a popular film, it shows a lack of originality. And if they're willing to do that for Krypton, what else will they hack to make it easier on themselves? It worries me, frankly, from a creative perspective. But that's just me!




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RAB


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,260


All I want from a Superman film is to start with Superman already being Superman, with a style that is easily recognizable to the masses (thus I'd use the Donner look) and doing super feats against super-villains we haven't seen before.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People know and recognize the Donner film. If you just say, "Hey, have you seen that film? Good! You know all you need to know. Sit down and enjoy the ride." things would be golden.

Lord knows, it's why I was sad Legendary returned my script I submitted because that's exactly what I did...




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RAB


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,260


I pretty much agree on all you said. I just wish they'd use Brainiac at least... he's been deserving of a great screen adaption and he's so easy to do! Just... argh!




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Ancient One 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,783


That score was damn near perfect.

No one can orchestrate that score like Williams himself, and no one should be allowed to tinker with it but Williams. At best, you get second-rate. At worst you get the score to Superman III (or IV, I forget which).

Let's see what someone else can do. Let's hear something new.




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Doc Boomstick




The reason superhero movies can have superior sequels is because sometimes origin movies just don't work. I don't want to see Superman's origin for the 100th time. I'm not crazy about the casting (I liked Routh). I'm worried the Dark Knight-ish approach could backfire on a character like Superman. And then there's Zod. Haven't we been here?

I'll still see it and try to be optimistic, but nothing about this movie sounds promising so far.


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Gamma Ra


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,881




    Quote:
    The level of fanaticism in regards to Chris Reeves version of Superman is pretty amazing to me... about the only thing I've seen nearly on the same level is Bill Bixby's portrayal of Bruce Banner in the Hulk TV series.


How true. While I agree both Reeves as Superman and Bixby as Banner set a precedence and standard for how comic book characters should translate to live action, it is time to let them go and move on without straying too far from the roots of the original characterization concepts.





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Fifthchild


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,474




    Quote:
    The reason superhero movies can have superior sequels is because sometimes origin movies just don't work. I don't want to see Superman's origin for the 100th time.


I dont know about this. Most superheroes have a pretty compelling, definitive origin story. After that theres a bunch of random storylines that to be brutally honest probably arent worthy of the big screen treatment. The alternative is that the filmmakers create something from scratch which is a real crapshoot. And to be honest i cant think of amny superhero sequels that were notably superior to the original movie. I certainly dont think its a general rule. The only problem with origin movies is that they tend to hit the same notes such that when you have a lot of superhero movies being made at the same time they can all blend into one in the casual viewers mind.


    Quote:
    I'm not crazy about the casting (I liked Routh). I'm worried the Dark Knight-ish approach could backfire on a character like Superman. And then there's Zod. Haven't we been here?


I dont mind Zod. Its a little easier on the suspension of disbelief to bring in a threat that shares the same origins rather than coming up with some totally different superpowered creature, at least for a first movie. And i think theres a lot of ifferent ways they could go with another Kryptonian who sees things differently than Kal does.


    Quote:
    I'll still see it and try to be optimistic, but nothing about this movie sounds promising so far.


Im a little worried about Snyder but i think the casting has been great. And i like the idea that the movie might try to incorporate a lot from Birthright which I thought was very well done.






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Doc Boomstick





    Quote:
    I dont know about this. Most superheroes have a pretty compelling, definitive origin story. After that theres a bunch of random storylines that to be brutally honest probably arent worthy of the big screen treatment. The alternative is that the filmmakers create something from scratch which is a real crapshoot. And to be honest i cant think of amny superhero sequels that were notably superior to the original movie. I certainly dont think its a general rule. The only problem with origin movies is that they tend to hit the same notes such that when you have a lot of superhero movies being made at the same time they can all blend into one in the casual viewers mind.


I didn't mean that superhero origins weren't great. I only said that the origns don't make for great movies. They just don't too long to set up the character. This is why I said Dark Night, Spidey 2, Inc. Hulk, and X2 were better than the originals. Regardless, it's probably a moot point for Superman because so many people already know his origin that it would make for a boring movie.

In regards to a villain, I agree that a common origin makes the most sense for a movie. However, a Kryptonian-derived villain doesn't necessarily have to be Zod. I'd be happy with Brainiac.


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