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Sethno


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Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



Look at this page...

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/sneak-peeks/SUPERMAN-32-05.jpg

Notice the "Superman Lives" headline on the wall. Also note the costume in the photo.

This is a current story.

So confused...



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rc




Good lord, that art is crap. And yes, even given what little I know of the new continuity, that seems very strange.

_rc


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

    Look at this page...



    Quote:
    http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/sneak-peeks/SUPERMAN-32-05.jpg



    Quote:
    Notice the "Superman Lives" headline on the wall. Also note the costume in the photo.



    Quote:
    This is a current story.



    Quote:
    So confused...


This is Geoff Johns? I am not surprised. Johns has shown a guerrilla-style tendency to go against the prevailing wind and cheekily reinsert previous continuity over the last year or so's worth of his work. It is a trait that seemingly contradicts the 'New 52' ethos and runs counter to Dan Didio's grand 'vision'. I will always support a cohesive continuity that is based on published history rather than one editor's decree, so I commend Johns for doing it. \(yes\)




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Gernot 

Manager

Location: St. Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,418


Worlds are COLLIDING! What you once knew, you no longer know! What was true is now false! War is Peace! Piece is Whole! Ignorance is Freedom! Superman is Batman! ;\)



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Sethno


Location: in front of computer or tablet
Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



From what I gather (and I'm behind in my reading...two pickups at the comics store, and I've read maybe two books) they may be saying now that the "death" mentioned in the Swamp Thing story didn't even happen.

And yet there it is on the wall in the newsroom. On top of that, the photo shows the traditional costume...sort of. Where he's dead in the headline page to the left, it looks like there are no trunks on the costume. In the "Superman Lives" headline page, the trunks are plainly there, but the collar seems to be the nu52 version. (Tho' look at the "S". It seems to have a flat bottom, not a pointed one.)

I mean, tradition is important, but so's continuity. If the death never happened, then it didn't...now. If the suit never had trunks, then it didn't. You can't say in one issue that stuff that's not in continuity is, unless you're doing a ret-con, and that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I'm surprised this got past the suits.



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    I mean, tradition is important, but so's continuity. If the death never happened, then it didn't...now. If the suit never had trunks, then it didn't. You can't say in one issue that stuff that's not in continuity is, unless you're doing a ret-con, and that doesn't seem to be the case here.



    Quote:
    I'm surprised this got past the suits.


You are witnessing a bit of a power struggle in action. Geoff Johns has shown he doesn't much care for a lot of the 'New 52, and if you've followed his work he has directly contradicted certain fundamentals like this:

*Justice League #23 shows a flashback sequence that is a blow by blow re-enactment of the Leagues first silver-age adventures. We see their battles against Starro, Weapons Master, and Professor Ivo/Amazo.

*Announcing the return of Doomsday DC three months ago declare the Death of Superman officially never happened. Superman/Wonder Woman is to be considered his first appearance. Geoff Johns directly mentions Doomsday thereafter in Forever Evil #6, in a way which implicates the League and Batman know full well who/what he is....

*In the first strike of the Crime Syndicate Deathstorm uses his power to strip Captain Cold of his now inbuilt ice powers and return him to using a cold-gun... if you are familiar with Johns' love of Captain Cold and the fact this undoes the work of Francis Manapul you will see this as another strike for traditional values from Johns.

There are other examples, but the truth is Johns has always been very protective of DC continuity, it is how he built his name originally after all.



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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

Moderator

Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556


The Justice League was 'Killed'

Lex Luthor and his team took on the Crime Syndicate

The JLA return but you'll see Lex (OSBORN) LUTHOR is the leader of the JL(Avengers) now.. I think that's what's gonna happen, it's not a great or original story but it is what it is. Thing is they already have a Justice League DARK so they might have to badge this Justice League: DC Citizens are just as stupid and mindless as MU Citizens

Unfortunately this is reflective of EXACTLY what's going on right now.

The art IS wretched. Is that JRJr? OR it could be a Elseworlds type story which demonstrates that nothing is new anymore?




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

Moderator

Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556


The photo on the wall is such a stick figure that it could be any costume.. thought I saw the new shoulders in there but it could be just because the lines are so loose.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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Sethno


Location: in front of computer or tablet
Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



I'm sorry, CC, but what thread are you replying to?

We're not talking about Lex. We're talking about the old front pages about Superman's death and revival, the fact the "death" was plainly an old picture from the post-Crisis "Death of Superman" story, and that the "Superman Lives" headline showed him in the traditional costume.

THAT'S what we're talking about.

I am curious, tho', about the whole "Justice League killed" thing in "Forever Evil". How did the deaths and revivals take place, especially in the case of Superman? For example, are you saying the "Dead after the fight with Doomsday" photo actually was connected to "Forever Evil"? (That doesn't explain the red trunks in the "Lives!" photo, tho'.)



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Sethno


Location: in front of computer or tablet
Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



Which photo? And the colors are pretty plain. It's undeniably a pair of red trunks (with a YELLOW belt) on the "Lives!" front page.



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Sethno


Location: in front of computer or tablet
Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



And it's amazing the suits let him sabotage over two years worth of continuity.

Of course, saying the League still had early adventures that were very similar to the pre-Crisis ones isn't exactly destroying the new continuity, nor is changing the powers of a villain. If he's allowed to do it, then the change is now part of the new continuity.

Showing a costume that never happened, tho', on the front page of the Daily Planet, and the photo of Superman laying dead in rubble after the fight with Doomsday (very plainly a pre-Flashpoint picture we've seen before) when it seems it never happened...

That's something else entirely.

And as for the "deaths" that CyberCoyote is talking about in connection with "Forever Evil"...

How did Superman "die" and "revive"?



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

    And it's amazing the suits let him sabotage over two years worth of continuity.


What continuity though? Since 2011 continuity at DC is a dead thing, and what there is of it it changes like the weather.
Superman dying at Doomsday's hands was in fact one of the first events DC confirmed as having happened in the new timeline, we saw it referenced in Swamp Thing and then Grant Morrison addressed it head on in Action Comics #16. Recently in Superman/Wonder Woman Charles Soule went against that and latterly in interviews for Superman:Doomed he and Scott Lobdell say Death of Superman never happened and dismissed the Grant Morrison and Swamp Thing instances.
Geoff Johns then mentions Doomsday in Forever Evil #6 and while this is all a fine pickle to us the readers let us be frank in admitting this is by far from the only instance of DC backtracking or delivering conflicting messages on its continuity post-2011. Doomsday and Death of Superman's canonicity isn't something Geoff Johns has mixed up - no, if anyone it is the people who are behind Superman:Doomed who are going against the grain concerning this subject... \(coffee\)



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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

Moderator

Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,556


Replying to this thread, yes, looks like the Doomsday stuff but I was thinking they they used those blurry hard to make out images as Easter eggs for the old stories.

And Kent doesn't work at the Planet any more, so I'm not sure what's going on here. Basically the Crime Syndicate 'Killed' the JL, but they were imprisoned INSIDE Firestorm.. it's as convoluted as it sounds. I didn't read the issue (has it come out yet?) where the whole league escapes the prison, but Lex indeed 'saves the world' and he's going to be the new leader of the Justice League according to solicits.

So we're all talking about the same thing from different angles. What's happening NOW in the comics is a poor mirror image to the Death of superman story.

another possibility is this story we're seeing is indeed part of whatever Superman's personal prison INSIDE Firestorm is. Every one of the heroes is in a fantasy world of their own making. Captain Marvel is the one great hero of his world, Wonder Woman is in a constant battle against insurmountable foes in hers.. this could be Kal's fantasy world prison.

And I admit I missed the red underoos in that pic! Good eye!




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Fire Power-Eternals-Champions-High Republic-Seven to Eternity
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Sethno


Location: in front of computer or tablet
Member Since: Fri Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 3,386



I know...I know.

I want some Aspirin.



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swmcbf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,036


You make a good point about the prison scenario. It would make sense. Even the out of place costume may be unlocked memories from the previous continuity. The Daily Planet scene would be another clue. I am thinking you hit a home run.


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