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Author
adey


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,929


Hello.


The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore.
I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics.
I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?






Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Mek





Outside of 'Phonogram' (which I picked up because Kieron Gillen's writing the next couple Bill stories), even the indies are really getting dull. It dawned on me that Scott Pilgrim is nothing more than an overhyped web comic and there's too many pretentious auto-biographies, but that's neither here nor there.

I guess I'm not feeling the burn out too badly, since I'm still jazzed on doing my own comic creation and at least I've got the 'Green of Eden' one-shot and the BRB: Godhunter mini-series to look forward to. And I've been reading 'Lucky Star' and old collections of "Sailor Moon" on and off, so I kinda have some material from the manga side of things to keep me inspired.

Even then, that's not much. I was all gung-ho about cosmic Marvel with 'Annihilation', but 'Annihilation: Conquest' sucked any fun out of that. War of Kings I want to get into, but I just can't bring myself to go to the comic store every Wednesday -with literally an hour and a half between classes, mind you- and spend $3.99 that should be used to pay my still-lingering medical bills from last November. Ah, grown-up things.

As for Thor, well, I'm reading the trades. You can imagine how frustrating it is with the comic being delayed all the time. Love is (almost) over.

Adey, you should play more video games with stories in 'em (aka non-football titles). I find that really gives the artistic juices a kick-start. I've been playing Mass Effect again recently and that's really given me inspiration. If you're finding art is suffering because of your lack of interest in comics, try other avenues. You'd be surprised at how well it works.



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.7 on Windows Vista
Upper_Krust




> Hello.

Hi Adey mate! \:\-\)

> The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore. I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

> I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

> Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

> Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

> I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

> Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics. I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

> Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?

What I have found is that a combination of decompressed writing and internet spoilers and previews combine to really drain my enthusiasm.

But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.

Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.

The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).

My suggestion for beating the comicbook blues and make comics exciting again is to pick a comic thats neither decompressed nor likely to end up scanned and disected by Wednesday afternoon (UK time for me - different for you no doubt).

I read Godland and Invincible (Trades only for the latter) and both are far more fun, entertaining and interesting than all the Marvel comics I get put together. Unfortunately, both have their problems with scheduling. Invincible presumably because Kirkman is arsing about too much and Godland because its low down on Casey and Scioli's priority list. However, I can forgive them all simply because those comics are so brilliant and inventive.

Not saying Godland and Invincible are the comics for you, everyone is different after all. But what I am saying is that there are probably comics out there that you are unaware of that will reignite your passion for the medium. I hope you can find them before you give up.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Mek






    Quote:

    But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.


Heh. My co-worker walked out on Watchmen too. Only she couldn't handle the violence and sex and basically called it 'a 3 hour porno for super heroes'.

Mind you, she -and I- LOVE films like 'Kill Bill' and 'Reservoir Dogs' (And we're not prudes either), but Watchmen must have been a little too much for her. I was going to see it that day after work, but eh, I think I'm going to wait for the Dollar Theater price. (Luckily, WALL-E made her believe in movies again, so I did my job there!)


    Quote:
    Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.


This I have to agree with. I think when used properly, say for one of those pretentious auto-biographical comics, decompression works. For super-hero comics, not so much. While the story itself isn't bad, I really think JMS could have gotten all of this done in 7-8 issues. I guess he wanted to stretch it out for the big #600.



    Quote:
    The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).


Before scans_daily went under (good riddance though, that place got extraordinarily toxic in the last year or so), I used to read scans from the newest comics and some old ones too. Mostly the old ones. But I too disagree with pirating new comics (especially since I want to start drawing/writing them someday too). Only in very rare instances do I spend the money without reading scans or officially sanctioned previews first (case in point: the 'Stormbreaker' trade).



    Quote:
    Not saying Godland and Invincible are the comics for you, everyone is different after all. But what I am saying is that there are probably comics out there that you are unaware of that will reignite your passion for the medium. I hope you can find them before you give up.


I also want to suggest maybe try some manga titles if none of the English indies work either. I'm not talking about the newest, uninspired crap like Naruto (which is decompressed worse than your average Marvel title) or Bleach, I'm talking about the classics. Lone Wolf and Cub and Record of Lodoss War are both good, as is anything by Leiji Matsumoto (Galaxy Express, Captain Harlock). The only new series I've liked lately is 'Soul Eater', which is super fine. But your mileage may vary, depending on your tastes.



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.7 on Windows Vista
Hatman





    Quote:
    > Hello.

    Hi Adey mate! \:\-\)

    > The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore. I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

    > I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

    > Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

    > Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
    I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

    > I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

    > Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics. I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
    I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

    > Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?

    What I have found is that a combination of decompressed writing and internet spoilers and previews combine to really drain my enthusiasm.

I agree that Internet spoilers can kill anticipation for a book. I usually try to avoid the previews of comics I'm planning on buying, and there are certain titles I intentionally do not read about on message boards (as I read them in trade format, I do not read any Daredevil, Avengers: Initiative, or Fables internet information so I can have a nice big surprise).

I think the third thing that is hurting the comic industry, and enthusiasm for it, is all the mega-events going on now. It used to be you could collect your favourite title, and even though other events might be referenced (the Fantastic Four are out of town in FF #256, we're on our own!) the books could all pretty much stand alone. Nowadays everything is so over-connected it makes you feel like you have to read a lot more books than you'd like to get the entire picture. That's a big reason I gravitate towards books that are somewhat insulated from the mega-events (Iron Fist, Thor, Captain America, Daredevil).
    Quote:


    But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.

I thought about walking out too, but I was with a couple of other guys and didn't want to leave them hanging. With the exception of Rorschach I thought the movie was pretty "meh". I'd only pick up the DVD if I found it in a $5 bin...maybe.
    Quote:


    Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.


In some cases I don't mind decompression, when it's done properly. Captain America is a title that really handles it well, and I think Thor is a title that does as well. I don't need non-stop action, I'm much happier getting lots of character development. But I hate it when it's at the other extreme; basically whatever Bendis writes. With the exception of his work on Daredevil I've never overly cared for his work. I mean, I have an issue of New Avengers where they spend the entire issue talking on a plane! The only other thing that happens is the plane crashes.
    Quote:



    The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).

I do find that if I've read the preview scans of a comic I usually don't appreciate the book as much since I've already read a third of it. I don't search out full scans of books so I can't comment on that. \:\)
    Quote:


    My suggestion for beating the comicbook blues and make comics exciting again is to pick a comic thats neither decompressed nor likely to end up scanned and disected by Wednesday afternoon (UK time for me - different for you no doubt).

Or avoid the previews and Internet spoilers.
    Quote:


    I read Godland and Invincible (Trades only for the latter) and both are far more fun, entertaining and interesting than all the Marvel comics I get put together. Unfortunately, both have their problems with scheduling. Invincible presumably because Kirkman is arsing about too much and Godland because its low down on Casey and Scioli's priority list. However, I can forgive them all simply because those comics are so brilliant and inventive.

Havent' read these myself, but if you want something less mainstream but still a darn good read, I recommend Fables. I absolutely love that title.
    Quote:


    Not saying Godland and Invincible are the comics for you, everyone is different after all. But what I am saying is that there are probably comics out there that you are unaware of that will reignite your passion for the medium. I hope you can find them before you give up.


~Hat~


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.7 on Windows XP
Malekith




I thought short attention spans was a sign of youth. That big explosions and fast action gave way to meaningful plots and timely pacing as one got older. In 2011 I guess we better hope for the former otherwise the movie will be decompressed.

So no love for Watchmen here? It was everything I expected and while it was cringe worthy (and not for kids) I thought it was overall the best Alan Moore comic movie we'll ever see.

Anyhoo, I totally agree on the internet thing. It ruins everything.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Hatman





    Quote:
    I thought short attention spans was a sign of youth. That big explosions and fast action gave way to meaningful plots and timely pacing as one got older. In 2011 I guess we better hope for the former otherwise the movie will be decompressed.

    So no love for Watchmen here? It was everything I expected and while it was cringe worthy (and not for kids) I thought it was overall the best Alan Moore comic movie we'll ever see.

    Anyhoo, I totally agree on the internet thing. It ruins everything.


I enjoyed V for Vendetta a lot more than I did Watchmen. I haven't read V for Vendetta yet though so maybe that helps since I can look at the movie as a film and nothing else.

I do have to wonder if part of the reason I found Watchmen boring was the fact I knew everything that was going to happen, quite often word for word. The movie team is in tough on this one; go too close to source material and it's boring, stray to far and purists get upset.

~Hat~


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.7 on Windows XP
skurgesaxe





    Quote:
    > Hello.

    Hi Adey mate! \:\-\)

    > The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore. I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

    > I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

    > Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

    > Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
    I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

    > I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

    > Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics. I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
    I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

    > Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?

    What I have found is that a combination of decompressed writing and internet spoilers and previews combine to really drain my enthusiasm.

    But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.

    Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.

    The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).

    My suggestion for beating the comicbook blues and make comics exciting again is to pick a comic thats neither decompressed nor likely to end up scanned and disected by Wednesday afternoon (UK time for me - different for you no doubt).

    I read Godland and Invincible (Trades only for the latter) and both are far more fun, entertaining and interesting than all the Marvel comics I get put together. Unfortunately, both have their problems with scheduling. Invincible presumably because Kirkman is arsing about too much and Godland because its low down on Casey and Scioli's priority list. However, I can forgive them all simply because those comics are so brilliant and inventive.

    Not saying Godland and Invincible are the comics for you, everyone is different after all. But what I am saying is that there are probably comics out there that you are unaware of that will reignite your passion for the medium. I hope you can find them before you give up.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
skurgesaxe





    Quote:

      Quote:
      > Hello.

      Hi Adey mate! \:\-\)

      > The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore. I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

      > I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

      > Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

      > Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
      I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

      > I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

      > Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics. I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
      I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

      > Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?

      What I have found is that a combination of decompressed writing and internet spoilers and previews combine to really drain my enthusiasm.

      But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.

      Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.

      The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).

      My suggestion for beating the comicbook blues and make comics exciting again is to pick a comic thats neither decompressed nor likely to end up scanned and disected by Wednesday afternoon (UK time for me - different for you no doubt).

      I read Godland and Invincible (Trades only for the latter) and both are far more fun, entertaining and interesting than all the Marvel comics I get put together. Unfortunately, both have their problems with scheduling. Invincible presumably because Kirkman is arsing about too much and Godland because its low down on Casey and Scioli's priority list. However, I can forgive them all simply because those comics are so brilliant and inventive.

      Not saying Godland and Invincible are the comics for you, everyone is different after all. But what I am saying is that there are probably comics out there that you are unaware of that will reignite your passion for the medium. I hope you can find them before you give up.




Uk bro' how are you mate? Good I hope. I agree completely with what you say. I have felt an awful lot of enthusiasm drain from me in recent times for all the reasons you state.

My antidote was to latch onto Batman in the aftermath of the movie. I always had a passing interest in the character but guided by some great people I jumped in and had a ball. I bought trades for fun and really started to get into a whole range of new characters. I know it sounds like a corny cliched jump on board the band-wagon sort of thing but I have had a lot of fun with it. I still buy Thor (for now) and buy DD and Cap because I love that man Brubaker and in anycase am a DD fan.

Good to see you in these parts UK.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Thorion


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,211




    Quote:
    Hello.


    The reason of my post is that I feel that comics ( even Thor ) don't really do it for me anymore.
    I know I've always shown enthusiasm to the medium and especially Thor as a character but I feel that I'm losing interest as a whole.

    I actually received issue # 600 a couple of weeks ago by post but I only read it a couple days ago.

    Normally, I would read them straight away but I just put it away and read it when I felt like it.

    Maybe the whole industry doesn't excite me anymore.
    I don't even rave on about too many things on this forum or any of the others I post on anymore.

    I used to post on the Battleboard all the time. Now, not much if at all, it's the same at CBR & Marvel.

    Even my art has taken a long hiatus because of my mood towards comics.
    I'm just not sure how I feel about the whole industry anymore.
    I'm gonna get rid of all my comics anyway and just keep my trades from now on. I mean Thor is the only book I buy anyway so I don't need to worry about other books.

    Is this really just a case of me having enough of comics at this time of my life or they really are just pieces of paper that you look at and feel like you are going through the motions most of the time when you read them.?




I don't like how (Thor) is going! 
It's really sad b/c I'm a still a huge (Thor) fan 





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Upper_Krust




Howdy Mek matey! \:\-\)

> Heh. My co-worker walked out on Watchmen too. Only she couldn't handle the violence and sex and basically called it 'a 3 hour porno for super heroes'.

I knew it was an '18' but that didn't prepare me for the gratuitous blue schlong shots metaphorically shoved down our throats every 10 minutes. I dreaded every time Dr Manhatten appeared as inside I was screaming don't pan the camera down...inevitably my screams went unheard for the most. May as well have been Bryan Singer directing.

However, the bottom line is that the movie was pretty boring. There was no action. Frankly I am of the opinion that only an action movie deserves a blockbuster film budget ($100+ Million). This would have been better served as a tv show.

> Mind you, she -and I- LOVE films like 'Kill Bill' and 'Reservoir Dogs' (And we're not prudes either), but Watchmen must have been a little too much for her. I was going to see it that day after work, but eh, I think I'm going to wait for the Dollar Theater price.

I'm no prude either, but gratuity is still gratuitous.

> (Luckily, WALL-E made her believe in movies again, so I did my job there!)

I'll maybe rent that next time my girlfriend and I have a movie night. Although I think she has this Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind thing she wants me to watch.

> This I have to agree with. I think when used properly, say for one of those pretentious auto-biographical comics, decompression works.

Frankly I am starting to blame Alan Moore for this whole decompression era because Watchmen is decompressed.

> For super-hero comics, not so much. While the story itself isn't bad, I really think JMS could have gotten all of this done in 7-8 issues. I guess he wanted to stretch it out for the big #600.

Stan Lee would have done that in 3 Issues maximum, except he'd also have had some side stories going on with Thor fighting big robots from some alien dimensions.

> Before scans_daily went under (good riddance though, that place got extraordinarily toxic in the last year or so), I used to read scans from the newest comics and some old ones too. Mostly the old ones. But I too disagree with pirating new comics (especially since I want to start drawing/writing them someday too). Only in very rare instances do I spend the money without reading scans or officially sanctioned previews first (case in point: the 'Stormbreaker' trade).

I think scans do have a point. Comics are so expensive that its nice to try before you buy. Also there might be something you never thought you would buy in a million years that you read online and just think - I like it. I always make a point of buying any title I like if I have read the scans.

> I also want to suggest maybe try some manga titles if none of the English indies work either. I'm not talking about the newest, uninspired crap like Naruto (which is decompressed worse than your average Marvel title) or Bleach, I'm talking about the classics. Lone Wolf and Cub and Record of Lodoss War are both good, as is anything by Leiji Matsumoto (Galaxy Express, Captain Harlock). The only new series I've liked lately is 'Soul Eater', which is super fine. But your mileage may vary, depending on your tastes.

Out of curiousity, did you ever get to watch the Lone Wolf & Cub movies? You said you like Kill Bill - they actually reference Shogun Assassin (the western name of the first two Lone Wolf & Cub movies - which were combined) in Kill Bill part two when the daughter is asked what movie she wants on. You might like them - personally I love them.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Upper_Krust




Hey there Hatman! \:\-\)

> I think the third thing that is hurting the comic industry, and enthusiasm for it, is all the mega-events going on now. It used to be you could collect your favourite title, and even though other events might be referenced (the Fantastic Four are out of town in FF #256, we're on our own!) the books could all pretty much stand alone. Nowadays everything is so over-connected it makes you feel like you have to read a lot more books than you'd like to get the entire picture. That's a big reason I gravitate towards books that are somewhat insulated from the mega-events (Iron Fist, Thor, Captain America, Daredevil).

I can see the good and the bad of this. If the whole world is threatened by aliens I'd like to think Thor would be involved, though not necessarily Daredevil or Spiderman. Though that doesn't mean it has to impact the main title or even require a mini-series.

> I thought about walking out too, but I was with a couple of other guys and didn't want to leave them hanging. With the exception of Rorschach I thought the movie was pretty "meh". I'd only pick up the DVD if I found it in a $5 bin...maybe.

I'd like to say the movie was pants, but that was the one thing it lacked.

> In some cases I don't mind decompression, when it's done properly. Captain America is a title that really handles it well, and I think Thor is a title that does as well.

I have to stop you there. The more powerful the character the more action is required. Less powerful characters - ie. those closer to human's with human problems, can handle decompression better.

Thor, Hulk, Mighty Avengers and so forth should not be decompressed.

> I don't need non-stop action, I'm much happier getting lots of character development.

Character development does not mean the absence of action though - something most of today's crop of writers have forgotten.

> But I hate it when it's at the other extreme; basically whatever Bendis writes.

He should never be allowed any character more powerful than Spiderman...its as simple as that.

> With the exception of his work on Daredevil I've never overly cared for his work. I mean, I have an issue of New Avengers where they spend the entire issue talking on a plane! The only other thing that happens is the plane crashes.
    Quote:


Sounds like one of his more action packed tales.

> I do find that if I've read the preview scans of a comic I usually don't appreciate the book as much since I've already read a third of it. I don't search out full scans of books so I can't comment on that. \:\)

Oddly enough reading the scans has probably got me buying more comic books, because its sort of like reading the comic in the store from the comfort of your own home.

Havent' read these myself, but if you want something less mainstream but still a darn good read, I recommend Fables. I absolutely love that title.
    Quote:


    Is it the sort of comic you need to read from the start?



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Upper_Krust




Hey there Malekith! \:\-\)

> I thought short attention spans was a sign of youth. That big explosions and fast action gave way to meaningful plots and timely pacing as one got older.

I think each generation's youth starts with a shorter attention span, but as you get older in my experience your attention span gets worse.

> In 2011 I guess we better hope for the former otherwise the movie will be decompressed.

They should have went with my script.

> So no love for Watchmen here?

Horrendous. I fail to see what all the fuss was about.

> It was everything I expected and while it was cringe worthy (and not for kids) I thought it was overall the best Alan Moore comic movie we'll ever see.

I disagree. The best Alan Moore movie is the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Note that I don't mean the best adaption of the book, I mean the best movie in and of itself.

> Anyhoo, I totally agree on the internet thing. It ruins everything.

Everything except message boards. ;\-\)


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Upper_Krust




Howdy Skurgesaxe mate! \:\-\)

> Uk bro' how are you mate? Good I hope.

Terrific...and I don't just mean a certain scoreline that you may not have enjoyed on Saturday. I'm sure the ManU forums have been fun these past few days! Whether or not who wins the Premiership you know now who deserves to win it. ;\-\)

By the way, avoid going to see Watchmen, assuming you haven't already succumbed.

> I agree completely with what you say. I have felt an awful lot of enthusiasm drain from me in recent times for all the reasons you state.

Soon the planets will align and I will write Thor, then no more decompression.

> My antidote was to latch onto Batman in the aftermath of the movie.

Dark Knight was overated for me, though admittedly I have never been the biggest Batman fan.

> I always had a passing interest in the character but guided by some great people I jumped in and had a ball. I bought trades for fun and really started to get into a whole range of new characters. I know it sounds like a corny cliched jump on board the band-wagon sort of thing but I have had a lot of fun with it. I still buy Thor (for now) and buy DD and Cap because I love that man Brubaker and in anycase am a DD fan.

You know that Brubaker is leaving Daredevil don't you?

> Good to see you in these parts UK.

Been lurking even when not posting.


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Upper_Krust




Hello again Hatman! \:\-\)

> I think the third thing that is hurting the comic industry, and enthusiasm for it, is all the mega-events going on now. It used to be you could collect your favourite title, and even though other events might be referenced (the Fantastic Four are out of town in FF #256, we're on our own!) the books could all pretty much stand alone. Nowadays everything is so over-connected it makes you feel like you have to read a lot more books than you'd like to get the entire picture. That's a big reason I gravitate towards books that are somewhat insulated from the mega-events (Iron Fist, Thor, Captain America, Daredevil).
    Quote:


Here is something I posted a month or so ago on a different forum. Its relevant here because it shows how Marvel use Crossover events to create new titles, expanding their market share.

I certainly don't have all the answers but by examing the Marvel model I have isolated their strategies.

1. Divide and Conquer. Divide up your 'big guns' and spin a team book around them.

If we examine what Marvel are doing in this regard, we can see that they have multiple iterations of the Avengers and X-Teams at the moment.

New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers, Young Avengers/Avengers the Initiative.

Heres how strong Marvel are at the moment - they are putting together a limited series called the Pet Avengers...looks interesting too. But Pet Avengers! It shouldn't possibly work. But somehow the Avengers tag carries enough weight at the moment that you know this is still going to sell out.

How did Marvel get to this point? Simple, by building up their resources then splitting them into two. Then building up those resources, and splitting them into two again. Of course very cleverly they do this punctuated by crossover events.

So we have big Avengers disassembled brooha which leads into...House of M...which creates New Avengers...which leads into Civil War...which creates Mighty Avengers...which leads into Secret Invasion...which creates Dark Avengers.

Marvel developed the exact same style for its cosmic stories.

Annihilation...creates Nova...leads into Annihilation Conquest...creates Guardians of the Galaxy...leads into War of Kings...creates ?

I don't know enough about the X-books to presume they are operating on similar principles?

Heres what DC do...Death of the New Gods...creates nothing. Final Crisis...creates nothing.

Marvel creates while DC stagnates.

2. Push Second Tier Characters. Heres something else Marvel do. Take one of their second tier characters and weave a big crossover around them...oh and lets just tie that in to a Hollywood movie while were at it...

Planet Hulk...begets World War Hulk...creating Incredible Hercules AND Hulk/Rulk AND Skaar: Son of Hulk...which begets Planet Skaar...

Whats the guess that when the Thor movie comes out Marvel will have a big Thor crossover just ready and waiting. Not only that but the crossover will probably lead into the creation of a spin-off title.

When was the last time DC pushed one of their second tier in this manner?

I mean even Dan Didio commented that Sinestro Corps should have been a crossover event.

Marvel seem to have the perfect formula at the moment, have their crossovers actually be meaningful and lead to the creation of new books. What this does is keeps the Marvel Universe growing and fresh.

I think if DC don't adopt a similar approach their market share will continue to slip away from their rivals.

DC have perhaps the biggest Green Lantern story ever on the horizon with Blackest Night...any sign of a Green Lantern movie from them? Nope...didn't think so.




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Mek







> I'll maybe rent that next time my girlfriend and I have a movie night. Although I think she has this Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind thing she wants me to watch.

Oh trust me, WALL-E is one of the best movies ever. If you look at it purely from an artistic perspective, it's beautiful. (And it's one of those movies where the pay-off is worth it)

And 'Eternal Sunshine'? Dude, can't go wrong with a Michael Gondry film. If you like that movie, I highly recommend 'Science of Sleep' and 'Be Kind, Rewind', both from the same director. What's so cool about his work is that he uses no CG whatsoever in his work, which is really prevalent in 'Science of Sleep'. (Plus any Gondry film is enough to score chick points, especially if they're the indie artsy types... well, excluding 'Dave Chappelle's Block Party', that is)

> Frankly I am starting to blame Alan Moore for this whole decompression era because Watchmen is decompressed.

You can blame Alan Moore (and Frank Miller) for a lot of things. I heard somewhere that Moore didn't anticipate 'Watchmen' ushering in the moral decay of superhero comics (which you can see a lot of these days in both the mainstream AND in the indies)... but I could be wrong there.

> Stan Lee would have done that in 3 Issues maximum, except he'd also have had some side stories going on with Thor fighting big robots from some alien dimensions.

Oh man. That'd almost be worth it.

> I think scans do have a point. Comics are so expensive that its nice to try before you buy. Also there might be something you never thought you would buy in a million years that you read online and just think - I like it. I always make a point of buying any title I like if I have read the scans.

Exactly. I tend to glance through the previews that are posted every few weeks. It really helps to get a feel for things rather than waste $2.99-3.99 on a dud of a book.

> Out of curiousity, did you ever get to watch the Lone Wolf & Cub movies? You said you like Kill Bill - they actually reference Shogun Assassin (the western name of the first two Lone Wolf & Cub movies - which were combined) in Kill Bill part two when the daughter is asked what movie she wants on. You might like them - personally I love them.

No, I haven't... but I'd love to. My dad and I both love Kill Bill, so I think that'd be something we'd both enjoy.



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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,975



    Quote:


    I disagree. The best Alan Moore movie is the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Note that I don't mean the best adaption of the book, I mean the best movie in and of itself.


Ironcially, that adaptation as far as I know is the worst yet going by the actual source material. It in itself is a bad movie that caused Alan Moore to want nothing to do with Hollywood.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.20 on Windows XP
seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,975



    Quote:


    But I think also that as we get older our attention spans decrease. Case in point I went to see Watchmen with my friends on Friday night. After about 50 minutes one of my friends said he was leaving because nothing was happening and got up and walked out and home (about a 40 minute walk). Thats the first time I have ever seen him (or any of my friends) walk out on a movie and poor though Watchmen was, we have went to see many movies a lot worse than that.


I honestly can't see what the problem with Watchmen is. I think it is a great film for what it is. It was about as faithful an adaptation you are going to get. The only thing major they changed was the ending and even then it was in a way minor.

I think part of it is not that older people have shorter attention spans, but now days most people want action in their films every fifteen minutes and if it is not happening they complain it is too slow. This applies even more so to superhero movies that most people automatically think will be action films. You can notice this if you watch old movies and compare it to modern day films. I think part of it may be our "instant" gratification society.

The problem is that people this time around are actually missing out on something. Watchmen is one of the most complex comics ever. The reason it comes across slow and long is Moore had only about twelve issues to fleash out each character to a full extent. Add in the background material and you have one of the most deeply interwoven stories of the graphic model medium. The movie did a surprisingly good job of adapting this as much as possible. It was not perfect and I still think the graphic novel is better, but for what it is it does it very well.

I normally hate it when people say something is a piece of high art that the masses lack the intellect to fully appriciate. Tell the truth two-thirds of the time I think such things are full of it. Watchmen (the graphic novel at least and to a lesser extent the film) is something I think does have an artistic side the masses simple do not get.

As to Dr. Manhatten appearing naked, that is to emphasize his growing disconnection with humanity. He is so far beyond humans that clothes do not matter to him anymore.


    Quote:

    Decompression, in my opinion, is the most annoying thing in comics today. It sucks all the life and excitement out of a story in an attempt to give it an added intelligence or gravitas. I think thats one reason why the Hulk is doing so well in the charts - its all-action style is a complete breath of fresh air to mainstream masses. Thor, for all the gravitas JMS brings to it, is, for the most part a boring comic. Interesting yes, but moments of excitement are few and far between.


I think decompression is a problem. I do think it can suck the life out of a story, but I don't think Hulk is any better. The strength of decompression is "rich in character development and mood rather than plot progression." The weakness is "unnecessarily stretching out the page length of plots, thinning out the content per page in order to earn more sales and money for a limited amount of work." Both sides have merit. Let me use three different stories to illustrate the differences:

1. First six issues of Mighty Avengers. This was pointlessly decompressed. If you don't remember it was an Ultron plot. Issue one had the team assemble and encounter Ultron. Issue two was just talking to Ultron and some flashbacks. Issue three was just a Sentry/Ultron fight. Issue four-six were figuring out how to beat Ultron and some other stuff I don't remember because it was so then. The whole thing should have only been four issues at most. There was no development for what was a short plot just to get the team going.

2. The new hulk series-This has the opposite problem and was in a way decompressed the other way. Six issues of nothing but fights with nothing to confirm anything about RHulk other then he was not Ross or Sampson. No character or plot development. Just random characters appearing to fall down before RHulk. This one gets away with it more because there was lots of action, but still decompressed with less development then many comics in that period.

3. Thor-Thor has been accused of being decompressed. I think it has but in the "right way." Each each has usually had something major happen. Issue #1 had Thor return, two Asgard, three, Heimdall, four Warriors Three, five the villains, six everyone else, seven and eight Odin and a backstory to set up further points, nine plot development on several fronts and frost giants, ten Balder becomes prince, eleven Steve Rogers and Balder as prince, twelve Loki, thirteen Bor.

The strength of decompression is character development and mood. JMS has done that. It is true he probable could have done it all in about three issues, but I think that would be rushing it too much. People have to remember that the medium has changed and that where used too a single page might be nine or more panels that has lessoned. Unlike what Bendis and other writers do where they just spend page after page of not moving the plot forward at all or even developing the characters JMS is actually developing the plots and weaving them togeteher. That is what makes Thor a fasinating read over those others. It is true RHulk is action packed, but it is like eating pure sugar with nothing else. The stories have no substance. I admit that is what the majority of the comic audience probable wants, but to me JMS offers a depth I find lacking in other stories.

I will admit however that he could work on the action a bit more, but the depth of the story and actually making the gods seem like gods makes up for it.



    Quote:

    The internet also ruins things to an extent. Especially for those of us outside North America who get our comics late. I have to fight the urge not to read the scans over at herochat, usually I cave. Which means, I will have read every mainstream title I buy even before it reaches the shops here. I should add that I don't agree with piracy and that 90% of the time I only read scans of comics I already I have on my pull list. Occasionally someone will have posted a comic that sounds interesting and I'll go check it out and start buying it because of first reading the scans (Mighty Avengers since Slott took over for instance).


The thing I like about the Internet is it lets me keep up with other titles that I might find interesting and pick up later or at the very least know what is going on in the rest of the MU and other characters I like even though I can't afford them at the moment. Sometimes the spoilers do get to be a bit much.



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skurgesaxe





    Quote:
    Howdy Skurgesaxe mate! \:\-\)

    > Uk bro' how are you mate? Good I hope.

    Terrific...and I don't just mean a certain scoreline that you may not have enjoyed on Saturday. I'm sure the ManU forums have been fun these past few days! Whether or not who wins the Premiership you know now who deserves to win it. ;\-\)

    By the way, avoid going to see Watchmen, assuming you haven't already succumbed.

    > I agree completely with what you say. I have felt an awful lot of enthusiasm drain from me in recent times for all the reasons you state.

    Soon the planets will align and I will write Thor, then no more decompression.

    > My antidote was to latch onto Batman in the aftermath of the movie.

    Dark Knight was overated for me, though admittedly I have never been the biggest Batman fan.

    > I always had a passing interest in the character but guided by some great people I jumped in and had a ball. I bought trades for fun and really started to get into a whole range of new characters. I know it sounds like a corny cliched jump on board the band-wagon sort of thing but I have had a lot of fun with it. I still buy Thor (for now) and buy DD and Cap because I love that man Brubaker and in anycase am a DD fan.

    You know that Brubaker is leaving Daredevil don't you?

    > Good to see you in these parts UK.

    Been lurking even when not posting.



Uk a great win for you on saturday but the team who deserves to win is the one with the most points accumulated at the end of the season-its really very simple. That must be a strange form of aspirational "Liverpool logic" you have connected with.

I didnt know Brubaker was leaving DD-when is that happening UK?


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Upper_Krust




Morning Mek! \:\-\)

> Oh trust me, WALL-E is one of the best movies ever. If you look at it purely from an artistic perspective, it's beautiful. (And it's one of those movies where the pay-off is worth it)

I'll certainly suggest it.

> And 'Eternal Sunshine'? Dude, can't go wrong with a Michael Gondry film. If you like that movie, I highly recommend 'Science of Sleep' and 'Be Kind, Rewind', both from the same director. What's so cool about his work is that he uses no CG whatsoever in his work, which is really prevalent in 'Science of Sleep'. (Plus any Gondry film is enough to score chick points, especially if they're the indie artsy types... well, excluding 'Dave Chappelle's Block Party', that is)

I have heard terrible things about Be Kind, Rewind.

> You can blame Alan Moore (and Frank Miller) for a lot of things. I heard somewhere that Moore didn't anticipate 'Watchmen' ushering in the moral decay of superhero comics (which you can see a lot of these days in both the mainstream AND in the indies)... but I could be wrong there.

I think comics as a medium 'growing up' doesn't necessarily mean the moral decay of all comics. Certainly it means the moral decay (or more correctly the loss of innocence) of adult oriented comics.

> No, I haven't... but I'd love to. My dad and I both love Kill Bill, so I think that'd be something we'd both enjoy.

Well there are six of them as follows:

http://www.lisashea.com/japan/movies/mov_babycart.html

Ideally what you want is this:

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/6568633/Lone-Wolf-Cub-The-Complete-Babycart-Series/Product.html

Which is the 6 main movies in the one boxed set. It should be noted thats a UK website selling the European Region 2 disks. So I imagine you would need to find an american equivalent if you ever want to get them.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Upper_Krust




Hiya mate! \:\-\)

> Uk a great win for you on saturday but the team who deserves to win is the one with the most points accumulated at the end of the season-its really very simple. That must be a strange form of aspirational "Liverpool logic" you have connected with.

Oh come on, we have destroyed Man U and Chelsea this season. Ended Chelsea's unbeaten home record and now inflicted United's heaviest home defeat in the Premiership ever!

In the words of a famous scouser..."I would love it if we beat them...love it!" \:\-D

Still think United will win of course...unfortunately. They need to lose once and draw twice and we need to win 9 games in a row.

> I didnt know Brubaker was leaving DD-when is that happening UK?

I'm 99% certain I read about this roughly a week or two ago, at whatever the recent big comic convention was.


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skurgesaxe





    Quote:
    Hiya mate! \:\-\)

    > Uk a great win for you on saturday but the team who deserves to win is the one with the most points accumulated at the end of the season-its really very simple. That must be a strange form of aspirational "Liverpool logic" you have connected with.

    Oh come on, we have destroyed Man U and Chelsea this season. Ended Chelsea's unbeaten home record and now inflicted United's heaviest home defeat in the Premiership ever!

    In the words of a famous scouser..."I would love it if we beat them...love it!" \:\-D

    Still think United will win of course...unfortunately. They need to lose once and draw twice and we need to win 9 games in a row.

    > I didnt know Brubaker was leaving DD-when is that happening UK?

    I'm 99% certain I read about this roughly a week or two ago, at whatever the recent big comic convention was.



Hey Uk-let me get this straight. If you beat Chelsea and United then you should be awarded the league? You come on.

Saddened by Brubaker news. I love his stuff. Incognito is fantastic and is one of those comics that excites me still.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Upper_Krust




Hey seeker! \:\-\)

> I honestly can't see what the problem with Watchmen is. I think it is a great film for what it is. It was about as faithful an adaptation you are going to get. The only thing major they changed was the ending and even then it was in a way minor.

The problem is that not all great stories make great movies. Watchmen is a great example of that. Its slow, gratuitous, predictable, none of the characters are really heroic (and therefore audiences will be unsympathetic towards them) and the payoff isn't worth it.

> I think part of it is not that older people have shorter attention spans, but now days most people want action in their films every fifteen minutes and if it is not happening they complain it is too slow. This applies even more so to superhero movies that most people automatically think will be action films. You can notice this if you watch old movies and compare it to modern day films. I think part of it may be our "instant" gratification society.

Agreed to an extent. But you shouldn't spend $150 million dollars on a movie virtually devoid of action like Watchmen. Its idiocy...just ask Bryan Singer.

> The problem is that people this time around are actually missing out on something. Watchmen is one of the most complex comics ever. The reason it comes across slow and long is Moore had only about twelve issues to fleash out each character to a full extent. Add in the background material and you have one of the most deeply interwoven stories of the graphic model medium. The movie did a surprisingly good job of adapting this as much as possible. It was not perfect and I still think the graphic novel is better, but for what it is it does it very well.

Thats part of the problem and why League of Extraordinatry Gentlemen is a much better and much more coherant and entertaining movie.

> I normally hate it when people say something is a piece of high art that the masses lack the intellect to fully appriciate. Tell the truth two-thirds of the time I think such things are full of it. Watchmen (the graphic novel at least and to a lesser extent the film) is something I think does have an artistic side the masses simple do not get.

It was obvious the masses were not going to get it (anymore than the masses got the recent Final Crisis crossover). Therefore the fact that it was made as a mainstream movie with a mainstream blockbuster budget is actually a fault of the decision makers who gave it the green-light. Not a fault of the public at large.

> As to Dr. Manhatten appearing naked, that is to emphasize his growing disconnection with humanity. He is so far beyond humans that clothes do not matter to him anymore.

Understandable, but after the second time we see the glowing azure member it became gratuitous.

> I think decompression is a problem. I do think it can suck the life out of a story, but I don't think Hulk is any better. The strength of decompression is "rich in character development and mood rather than plot progression." The weakness is "unnecessarily stretching out the page length of plots, thinning out the content per page in order to earn more sales and money for a limited amount of work." Both sides have merit. Let me use three different stories to illustrate the differences:

Okay, fire away.

> 1. First six issues of Mighty Avengers. This was pointlessly decompressed. If you don't remember it was an Ultron plot. Issue one had the team assemble and encounter Ultron. Issue two was just talking to Ultron and some flashbacks. Issue three was just a Sentry/Ultron fight. Issue four-six were figuring out how to beat Ultron and some other stuff I don't remember because it was so then. The whole thing should have only been four issues at most. There was no development for what was a short plot just to get the team going.

The irony being that Bendis hyped this (and in the process tricked even me) that he was going to try a more faster paced action-oriented style with Mighty Avengers.

> 2. The new hulk series-This has the opposite problem and was in a way decompressed the other way. Six issues of nothing but fights with nothing to confirm anything about RHulk other then he was not Ross or Sampson. No character or plot development. Just random characters appearing to fall down before RHulk. This one gets away with it more because there was lots of action, but still decompressed with less development then many comics in that period.

I disagree with this. If Hulk has a problem its Loeb's logic gaps. Not character development. The key element to the start of this series is the question "who is the Rulk". Its self-defeating to reveal this too early. Also with Rulk's true identity underwraps it becomes more difficult to fully flesh out the character. But with plot and character development purposefully slowed to protect Rulk's identity its unfair to say we have seen none of the above. Certainly A-bomb's character is developing and we now know Rulk has a plan of sorts (his chat with Thundra being one element of that).

> 3. Thor-Thor has been accused of being decompressed. I think it has but in the "right way." Each each has usually had something major happen. Issue #1 had Thor return, two Asgard, three, Heimdall, four Warriors Three, five the villains, six everyone else, seven and eight Odin and a backstory to set up further points, nine plot development on several fronts and frost giants, ten Balder becomes prince, eleven Steve Rogers and Balder as prince, twelve Loki, thirteen Bor.

Theres a difference between something interesting happening and something exciting happening. In 13 issues Thor has been in peril once!

How many times was Thor in danger for the first 13 issues of Stan Lee's run...or Walt Simonson's run...or Dan Jurgens run...?

How many villains appeared in the first 13 issues of JMS run? Contrast that again with any of the others.

> The strength of decompression is character development and mood. JMS has done that. It is true he probable could have done it all in about three issues, but I think that would be rushing it too much. People have to remember that the medium has changed and that where used too a single page might be nine or more panels that has lessoned. Unlike what Bendis and other writers do where they just spend page after page of not moving the plot forward at all or even developing the characters JMS is actually developing the plots and weaving them togeteher. That is what makes Thor a fasinating read over those others. It is true RHulk is action packed, but it is like eating pure sugar with nothing else. The stories have no substance. I admit that is what the majority of the comic audience probable wants, but to me JMS offers a depth I find lacking in other stories.

> I will admit however that he could work on the action a bit more, but the depth of the story and actually making the gods seem like gods makes up for it.

What JMS seems to have forgotten is that you can have character development and still have action. He can have his slow build up to the main plot (Loki's scheming) while at the same time introducing action oriented sub-plots. Look at Walt Simonson's run...he had Surtur (and Loki and Lorelei and Malakith too) scheming from the get go. But their scheming was 'in the background' which left for the introduction of Beta Ray Bill, Fafnir, Eilif, Algrim, Odin's Brothers, the Casket of Ancient Winters, Malekith, the Wild Hunt etc.


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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,975



    Quote:


    The problem is that not all great stories make great movies. Watchmen is a great example of that. Its slow, gratuitous, predictable, none of the characters are really heroic (and therefore audiences will be unsympathetic towards them) and the payoff isn't worth it.


I agree Watchmen was never meant to be a movie. Alan Moore has said as much, but I don't think all of the heroes are unsympathetic. Nite-Owl is a true hero or at least was genuinely trying to make the world a better place. I think people would also sympathize with Rorschach due to his past and if people can root for the Punisher they can root for him.



    Quote:

    Agreed to an extent. But you shouldn't spend $150 million dollars on a movie virtually devoid of action like Watchmen. Its idiocy...just ask Bryan Singer.


The difference I would argue is Superman Returns was pretty much a rehashing of the first film with no real development or depth of any kind. Watchmen had all of that. The problem was with the film is the true depth was left out.







    Quote:

    It was obvious the masses were not going to get it (anymore than the masses got the recent Final Crisis crossover). Therefore the fact that it was made as a mainstream movie with a mainstream blockbuster budget is actually a fault of the decision makers who gave it the green-light. Not a fault of the public at large.


Compared to a lot of "art" movies I've seen Watchmen is not that hard to get if you think about it only a little so I can see why it was made as a mainstream movie. The set-up it had required a good size budget. The problem as far as I can tell is alot of people just don't seem to have any real patience with slower movies that aren't pure romance any more.






    Quote:

    The irony being that Bendis hyped this (and in the process tricked even me) that he was going to try a more faster paced action-oriented style with Mighty Avengers.


So we agree on that one? I think that story was one of the perfect examples of bad decompression.


    Quote:

    I disagree with this. If Hulk has a problem its Loeb's logic gaps. Not character development. The key element to the start of this series is the question "who is the Rulk". Its self-defeating to reveal this too early. Also with Rulk's true identity underwraps it becomes more difficult to fully flesh out the character. But with plot and character development purposefully slowed to protect Rulk's identity its unfair to say we have seen none of the above. Certainly A-bomb's character is developing and we now know Rulk has a plan of sorts (his chat with Thundra being one element of that).


The problem is that for people who complain stories like Thor is slow with development RHUlk is even slower. Granted, Loeb's logic doesn't help, but for me the story isn't developing. In a single issue you may have about three pages of actual plot or character development and the rest some pointless fight scene with just random characters showing up. I don't even think RHulk's identity has to be exposed (assuming Loeb even has an idea who RHulk is.), but I fail to see how pointless fight scene after pointless fight scene is any different or better from long drawn out speeches? I like a good action scene in my comic as much as the next guy, but I would like some actual development after about three or four issues.


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    Theres a difference between something interesting happening and something exciting happening. In 13 issues Thor has been in peril once!

    How many times was Thor in danger for the first 13 issues of Stan Lee's run...or Walt Simonson's run...or Dan Jurgens run...?

    How many villains appeared in the first 13 issues of JMS run? Contrast that again with any of the others.


Why have multiple villains appear when you can flesh out Loki and use him in a way that he has not been used in years. I'm not just talking about his absence. JMS has a real handle on Loki that few writers over the years have had.

I am not trying to sound intellectual or snobbish here so please forgive me if I do, but the current run on Thor has been compared to a Shakespearn play and Thor himself has often been compared to a Shakespearen hero. In some of Shakespeare's plays action only happen a few times with large dramatic build up. That is what JMS is going for here. He could be throwing in pointless actions scenes, but with the character and plot development he has done is being done in such a way that I think adds a layer of depth often missing in some stories today.

I admit the story is too slow for the average comic reader. That is probable why Rhulk is so popular. Maybe it is just because I am older now then I once was, but that at least is the way I feel on things.






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