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Author
seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,976


Preview of the first issue of the new Herc series:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30956

There is some debate over at comicbook resources about Herc's actions. Some are calling him a murderer for killing those thugs. They think he should be more like other street-level heroes like Daredevil or Batman that don't kill people. That if he does he should not be called an Avenger or even a hero. Others are arguing that it is still self-defense and Hercules comes from another time where heroes did kill. Kill or be killed is most of Herc's life. As a full mortal he can no longer joke around in battle like he once did. What does the Thor board think?

As for the rest of the preview. Cool use of mythological weapons. I'm wondering about the Warhawks since they started out as Ares's mortal followers. Considering their god became an Avenger are they just acting out? A splinter group? Would Ares currently approve or disapprove of their actions? Would he fight against them if he knew what they were doing?


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markronimus




Looks like they're finally starting to mine mythology. Hopefully the days of idiotic characters like the beyonder and molecule man are long gone.


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Flemm




I wouldn't call it murder (Hercules is now mortal and was defending himself against opponents who were clearly threatening his life), but my initial reaction wouldn't be to call it very heroic either, even in the mythological sense. A few goons on a train are no match for someone with Hercules' fighting skill given that he is heavily armed with a variety of powerful mythological weapons. I mean, for some regular guy like you or me, that would be pretty heroic, but for Hercules? Meh. Even as a mortal I don't see it.

There's not much point in discussing it further without seeing the rest of the comic, though.


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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,789


Herc's morality would be clear I think. These punks were about to casually rape and murder innocents. Their attitude would suggest they've done it before and would do so again, plus they're warhawks which didn't help their plight. I think PAK has got it right here, but this is not the Herc that Layton or DeFalco would write!
Vidar


Posted with Apple iPad 533.17.9
markronimus




The writing is rather one-dimensional and lacking depth but the overall thematic direction is certainly promising. TBH I have never been blown away by pak's writing as it seems his imagination lacks the kind "polyphony" that the best writers demonstrate. That he was selected to write this book is probably a reflection of Marvel mgmt's perception of the target reader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3aZch2hlPk


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows XP
Jase





    Quote:
    Preview of the first issue of the new Herc series:



    Quote:
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30956



    Quote:
    There is some debate over at comicbook resources about Herc's actions. Some are calling him a murderer for killing those thugs. They think he should be more like other street-level heroes like Daredevil or Batman that don't kill people. That if he does he should not be called an Avenger or even a hero. Others are arguing that it is still self-defense and Hercules comes from another time where heroes did kill. Kill or be killed is most of Herc's life. As a full mortal he can no longer joke around in battle like he once did. What does the Thor board think?


I don't have a problem with it. It is self-defense, and they were casually using lethal force themselves, though a valid question IMO would be - even with his diminished power, was Hercules skilled enough to dispatch of them w/out essentially killing them?


    Quote:
    As for the rest of the preview. Cool use of mythological weapons. I'm wondering about the Warhawks since they started out as Ares's mortal followers. Considering their god became an Avenger are they just acting out? A splinter group? Would Ares currently approve or disapprove of their actions? Would he fight against them if he knew what they were doing?


I did like how the mythological weapons were introduced and utilized. Classic old school Ares probably wouldn't have a problem w/ their actions, but the one who eventually became an Avenger...who knows? Maybe.



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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,976



    Quote:
    I wouldn't call it murder (Hercules is now mortal and was defending himself against opponents who were clearly threatening his life), but my initial reaction wouldn't be to call it very heroic either, even in the mythological sense. A few goons on a train are no match for someone with Hercules' fighting skill given that he is heavily armed with a variety of powerful mythological weapons. I mean, for some regular guy like you or me, that would be pretty heroic, but for Hercules? Meh. Even as a mortal I don't see it.


Agree we have to see the full story, but the following was what I posted elsewhere where I can see it is justifiable:

In regards to Hercules killing, I too am mixed. Just encouraging lethal vigliantism is dangerous. One reason it is tolerated in Marvel is guys like Spider-Man and Daredevil rarely if ever kill. The ones that do are usually selective enough that they rarely if ever kill the wrong person in the crossfire. Otherwise, they would be hunted down.

Hercules is a bit different though. He comes from an age where killing was necessary just to survive in his life. In fact, for most of human history all over the world what he did would probable be called self-defense and justified. He would be hailed as a hero for what he did. Afterall, he was attacked first and warned them.

Hercules also has two other disadvantages of sorts compared to other street-levelers. If I understand correctly this is the first time Hercules has been a normal human. Even as a demi-god he had physical strength and toughness far beyond what humans were capable of. He has spent most of his life as a full god where nothing could hurt him. He could afford to be more merciful and carefree in battle because of this. Now he can't take that chance any more. Bullets no longer bounce off him. He is much easier to injure and kill. If he fails in battle not only does he lose but the ones he protects lose as well.

The second disadvantage is training and life. Most street levelers have been trained to try and handle situations without killing. Their thinking is generally geared toward that first and lethal force only as a last resort. Hercules has been trained that when one fights in actual battle one kills. Training and sporting events are one thing, but an actual battle is supposed to be kill or be killed. He has had that mentality for thousands of years. To survive for that long he has had to embrace that mentality. It doesn't just go away over night. Now that he is in a situation where he can no longer joke around in battle I can see why he has embraced that.

Is Hercules still a hero? I think in the eyes of that girl he saved and to the definitions he has lived with for most of his life and in many cultures the answer is yes.



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.13 on Windows XP

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