Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
Minorl

In Reply To
MysteryMan

Subj: Re: Thank you Captain America [SPOILERS]
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 03:24:58 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Thank you Captain America [SPOILERS]
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 01:33:19 pm EST

Previous Post

> > > For being a true patriot...
> > Yeah he is above the law he tries to enforce on others...good job Cap!
>
> The Basic misconception that most readers/posters are stating is that super heroes such as Captain America enforce the laws. Where is that written. That is absolutely incorrect. Superheroes fight super criminals or super powered threats. That is all. They are not law enforcement officers unless they are under the employ of the respective government. Marvel super heroes were not under the voluntary employ of the government. They fought crime that typically (according to Stan Lee) regular police forces couldn't match.
> > > ...having a never say die attitude..in face of Kovac, Thanos, Beyonder, and now Iron Man...

And thats the problem...they place themselves above the law...you get people like Magneto and such...thats being a zealot.

> > One could say the same about Tony...Tony idolizes Cap yet he knows what he is doing is right(Tony has freely given hios life up to save Caps before thinking him the better man)...THAT is courage...Cap just thinks Stark is a punk
> Tony Stary doesn't know what he is doing is right, he believes it is, but knowing is another thing altogether. He is a zealot that is following the majority, not considering whom it hurts. And he is probably one of the easiest characters to "take out". He has no super powers, no super senses and he is the worst traitor of all, in my opinion.

If anything this makes him a LOT smarter/less crazy then Cap. He is doing what he believes to be right...but he has shown times when he isnt sure and has doubts so he questions his motives and actions...Cap is a fanatic who never asks himself the tough question..."is what I am doing right?" thats the mind of a despot an insane person. That is a zealot...you need to look up the definition of the word. He is following what the DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt. enacted as law with support of the people...Cap is a traitor since he puts himself above not just the law but the people...Mr. Dictator hello.

> > > ...for hitting the Punisher real good for killing those two jabronies...
> > After letting him on the team right after he killed 2 other criminals...yep Cap's looking bright on this one...let Castle do all that dirty work for him so he keeps looking good.
>
> Where or why would you have a problem with him killing the two characters that were trying to hurt or kill Spiderman? I'm not following you on this one. Of course those two should have been taken out. They were trying to seriously hurt or kill one of the best heroes around. What would you have done. Stopped known killers/sadist and ask them to stop and walk away. You see a friend being hurt you act first and get them out of there.

They HURT spiderman...you dont kill people for hurting someone else...if you truly believe it is ok to kill someone for punching you...well we have nothing more to talk about. They "wanted" to kill Spiderman...but they couldnt...and they had STOPPED beating on him and were about to take him in when Punisher cowardly blew them away from behind.

> Quite honestly, I am almost to the point where that should have happened years ago. You fight super powered people trying to kill others and simply capture them and what happens? they either escape capture as usual so that other stories can be written, or they break out of jail and kill some one else.

It's called due process and such. Then again why not let Cap decide which laws everyone should follow and which ones not.

> > > > For being a true patriot...
> > > Yeah he is above the law he tries to enforce on others...good job Cap!
> >
> > The Basic misconception that most readers/posters are stating is that super heroes such as Captain America enforce the laws. Where is that written. That is absolutely incorrect. Superheroes fight super criminals or super powered threats. That is all. They are not law enforcement officers unless they are under the employ of the respective government. Marvel super heroes were not under the voluntary employ of the government. They fought crime that typically (according to Stan Lee) regular police forces couldn't match.
> > > > ...having a never say die attitude..in face of Kovac, Thanos, Beyonder, and now Iron Man...
>
> And thats the problem...they place themselves above the law...you get people like Magneto and such...thats being a zealot.

Here is where we step into the twilight zone. We are trying to find logic in a comic book scenario. You are actually comparing super heroes that fight super powered villians to Magneto??? Come on. Step back and look at the picture. The Avengers historically operated outside governments because the super powered threats operated outside governments. At this time in place, there are only a few governments that would even allow an American Group to even cross their boarders. However, the super powered threat cannot wait for permission. That is one reason why I read the Avengers. They were real friends. They respected each other. Captain America earned everyone's respect and followed him with out questions. That would never happen under Iron Man. Captain America made certain that everyone was properly trained and coordinated. This new Avengers are basically the LA Lakers of the last three years (not this one). They acted as individual and got their butts kicked. If you really kept up on the Avengers, Iron Man (his drunken, lusting, untrustworthy self, Captain America and his history and the others, you would see, that to compare Captain America, Luke Cage, Spider Man, Cloak and Dagger, etc. to Magneto tells me that you really aren't seeing what Marvel has really done. This isn't about laws. There were law restricting what Blacks could and couldn't do in this country. That doesn't make them right and forced good people to step up and fight those stupid laws. There were laws that made slavery legal. Because it was a law made it right? Come on! Wake up. Where is it writtten that laws are right? Of course, one has to follow certain rules in order to have a civilized society. however, every now and then, people (basically evil selfish people) get laws passed that enable them to profit on the backs of others. That is why it is soooooooo important for the Supreme Court to be unbiased and not political. Why did it take so long for Jim Crow to go away? The South and other parts of America passed laws legalizing it? What did it take so long for Women to be allowed a vote? Or for Asian Americans or Latino Americans to get their just rights? Because people had to step forward and actually fight and disobey the estabished laws in order for it to happen. The courts, legal system, police and governments didn't listen until people fought. I'm not saying that this is what should happen in all or most cases. I'm just bringing up clear examples of past stupid laws. So please, step back for your stance on laws for a moment and look at history, stupid laws, and evil people passing evil laws for their own benefit. The Registration Act isn't just to get people to register. This reminds me of when Blacks, Asians or other non-white Americans had to register. This is the same. It is called discrimination and it is seriously wrong. This Registration act also forces legal citizens to have to either sign up and serve or go to jail. Back up. You seriously don't see something wrong with this? This is the loop hole that Marvel put into the Registration act that really made it bad. This is why America has the Good Samaritan Law. It protects people that volunteer in bad situations to help the helpless from legal action. So, if a really bad guy is standing on a corner and killing all citizens and a super hero that didn't register walked by, if that person helped by using their powers to stop the criminal from killing more people, that hero goes to jail? Good Samaritan Law please. The dump kid heroes (although Namorita was really not dumb), that cause Nitro to panic and blow up the community really didn't do a crime. What about the TV show executives that paid them to do this for their TV show? Who is really to blame here?
>
> > > One could say the same about Tony...Tony idolizes Cap yet he knows what he is doing is right(Tony has freely given hios life up to save Caps before thinking him the better man)...THAT is courage...Cap just thinks Stark is a punk
> > Tony Stary doesn't know what he is doing is right, he believes it is, but knowing is another thing altogether. He is a zealot that is following the majority, not considering whom it hurts. And he is probably one of the easiest characters to "take out". He has no super powers, no super senses and he is the worst traitor of all, in my opinion.
>
> If anything this makes him a LOT smarter/less crazy then Cap. He is doing what he believes to be right...but he has shown times when he isnt sure and has doubts so he questions his motives and actions...Cap is a fanatic who never asks himself the tough question..."is what I am doing right?" thats the mind of a despot an insane person. That is a zealot...you need to look up the definition of the word. He is following what the DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt. enacted as law with support of the people...Cap is a traitor since he puts himself above not just the law but the people...Mr. Dictator hello.

the only thing that I can say about what you wrote above, is that you really don't know Captain America very well. I collected his books from the 1940's to now. The person/character you described is definitely not Captain America. He defines the weak, helpless, enslaved, and freedom. Not stupid laws. Again, Slavery laws anyone??? Would you defend slavery laws? Would you step forward in violation of slavery laws and fight against them? If no, then I know where you stand. There are four types of people. 1) good people that know something is wrong and do nothing. 2) good people that know something is wrong and do something. 3) bad people that know something is wrong and do nothing and 4) bad people that cause the problems.
>
> > > > ...for hitting the Punisher real good for killing those two jabronies...
> > > After letting him on the team right after he killed 2 other criminals...yep Cap's looking bright on this one...let Castle do all that dirty work for him so he keeps looking good.
> >
> > Where or why would you have a problem with him killing the two characters that were trying to hurt or kill Spiderman? I'm not following you on this one. Of course those two should have been taken out. They were trying to seriously hurt or kill one of the best heroes around. What would you have done. Stopped known killers/sadist and ask them to stop and walk away. You see a friend being hurt you act first and get them out of there.
>
> They HURT spiderman...you dont kill people for hurting someone else...if you truly believe it is ok to kill someone for punching you...well we have nothing more to talk about. They "wanted" to kill Spiderman...but they couldnt...and they had STOPPED beating on him and were about to take him in when Punisher cowardly blew them away from behind.

They were trying to kill him and to anyone watching from afar that is exactly what it looked like. You forgot who was attacking Spiderman. They were two complete psyco criminals with no scruples against killing anyone, that spider man was fighting. of course you take them out. If it was Wonderman or some other known prior hero fighting Spiderman then no, you don't kill them. You step in and help stop the fighting. But these two clowns? Of course you take them out.
>
> > Quite honestly, I am almost to the point where that should have happened years ago. You fight super powered people trying to kill others and simply capture them and what happens? they either escape capture as usual so that other stories can be written, or they break out of jail and kill some one else.
>
> It's called due process and such. Then again why not let Cap decide which laws everyone should follow and which ones not.

You again are confusing the super hero world with real life. Super heroes fight super villians. Marvel introduced a wonderful concept. Super fighters in the employ of the government. However, what happens when the government steps outside the lines and gets out of control? Remember Hitler and Nazi Germany? Some one must be prepared to step forward and fight the established evil goverment. If everyone is registered and under the employ of a government, that cannot happen.

enjoy


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