Avengers >> View Post
Post By
Bryan D

In Reply To
Super Rubbery Bung

Subj: Re: What rights are we talking about?
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 08:39:28 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: What rights are we talking about?
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 02:01:17 am EST

Previous Post

> > > Nobody has a right to be a Vigelante even if Captain America tells you it is right.
> >
> > The right to a fair trial. People arrested by SHIELD are tossed into prison for a life sentence without a trial. Imagine how that kind of power could be used against people you don't like even.
> >
> > Also, SHIELD is forcing super humans to work for them. It's a super human draft. Drafing a certain type of person seems unconstitutional to me.
> >
> > It's not just about training and making people accountable. SHIELD wants all super people to work for them. If that happened, who would stand up to them? There would be no stopping a totalitarian governemnt. SHIELD is always making shady deals with bad people. What happens when the heroes aren't allowed to take down Hydra because SHIELD says so. This seems to be Cap's concern. Not just the registering but the fact that one agency controls a force that could cripple the planet.
> >
> > I'm more worried about the top issues.
> So cap was cool with us making allies of the Soviets in WWII, the terrorists in the USSR afghan war, corrupt South vietnamese governments?
He wasn't even alive at the time, he was either in suspended animation or in a block of ice. In Earth's Mightiest Heroes he goes to the Vietnam Veterans memorial and laments missing out on that one. In fact Cap missed the entire Cold War series of East-West conflicts; others like Iron Man, James Rhodes ,Nick Fury and Frank Castle went to Vietnam.

The USSR were not fighting 'terrorists' in the Afghan War, they were fighting local rebels who opposed a puppet communist government and the Russians. The Afghans have never been terrorists, though some have trained and harboured them before, often with no choice due to the lack of border controls and an abundance tribal loyalists. Cap would side with the Mujahedeen, not the USSR. If Nick Fury was CIA at the time he would have been helping the Mujahedeen via Pakistan as it happenned at the time.

> Why would cap have such a change of heart now?
He hasn't changed his mind at all, to him the government has betrayed its own constitution and endangered the lives and careers of many heroes and indirectly, the public. Cap didn't go through the duplicity of the Cold War era schools of thought like many others , he didn't see McCarthy or Scargill over in England. He even missed the Black Panther Party, Malcolm X , Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement in the 60s,

The 80s and 90s Marvel U allowed his values to coexist with the government- now they have clashed, at least two characters have told him it isn't the 40s anymore.

> SHIELD has been a fairly good organization in the past, with a few exceptions which were interesting stories and a product of the 90s X-files inspired renassance of "the government is actually evil".
> Every organization, country, etc.. has skeletons in their closets. They have all made deals with devils.>

Maria Hill's promotion is still strange to many, plus the formation of cape killer units and the 50 state initiative points to someone covertly changing SHIELD's direction.

I really didnt want to go down this road...

But Cap was taken out of Ice in march of 1964 , at least thats when the issue came out. Even if the history was 10 years off. cap would have still been alive when the US was involved in vietnam.

And my examples all APPLY.. The soviet invasion of Afghanistan happened in 1979 , and raged into the late 80s. Cap knew about it.

What about others i didnt mention..(that the public knows about) such as Iran/Contra affair , Panama , etc..And lets not forget all the shady moves the US has done in the 616 universe.

Cap as a SHIELD member and high profile adventurer would probably know of dozens of other black ops type moves that America has done to ensure their interests. He probably would have participated in some.

Cap is different things to different people. He doesnt always get portrayed consistantly.

And his depiction in Civil War is by far the most bi-polar, perplexing , and mind boggling depiction to date.

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