Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
spiderprince

In Reply To
Squish!

Subj: Re: Head spinning...
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 08:13:17 am EST
Reply Subj: Head spinning...
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 01:01:29 am EST

Previous Post

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> > I don't think New Avengers was sucessfull on a number of fronts (certainly a finacial sucess though!)because it changed the status quo in a manner which did not remain consistent with the orginal concept as maintained throughout all the teams's incarnations. Start a new book if it's that different is what I'm saying. And if Marvel or Bendis or whomever wanted to capitalize on a brand name, well Defenders could have worked just as well.
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> Well, obviously you have a much higher opinion of the Defenders brand name than I do.
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> And yes, it did change the status quo. Hence the name "NEW" Avengers. The old team was disassembed, and what we created in NEW Avengers was something NEW. That was kind of the point. And they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways, so I don't see the big deal.
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Did you mean to say "it did change the CONCEPT." because I know the SQ changed...And if you are saying NEW Avengers changed the concept and that was the point then yeah, we are in agreement. I know that was the point. MY point is one which you support by stating "...they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways". Meaning: Marvel has come to the conclusion that the older concept is valuable, interesting, viable, potentially a money maker,etc. In short there is a need for the older concept. And clearly many people enjoy this NEW concept hence the need for TWO teams which is what I said in the first place. I stand by my opinion that NEW Avengers was so new and different they shoudl not have used the name Avengers in the first place.
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> > > And you can't do that with the Defenders.
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> Nope. Because the Defenders were already outcasts and vigilantes by nature. That made them poor vehicles for showing the deterioration of the relationship between the hero community and government. The Avengers are at the other end of the spectrum. They symbolize what it means to be heroes... when the government and them are at odds, it actually means something.
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Sorry, that's not persuasive. The old classic team Avengers, not the NEW Avengers team would support your contention more aptly I think. Also the NEW Avengers was not at odds with the government....only some of them. The team was at odds with itself which could have been portrayed just as effectively with the traditional version. The FF being at odds with the government means something. Remember, Registration and Civil War destroyed the NEW Avengers team.

Actualy, Registration and Civil War is a much more logical, interesting and feasible reason for the Avengers to have been disassembled than an insane psychotic murderous Scarlet Witch.

Bottom line for me: I wish we could have been spared all of Disassembled, HOM, 20-something issues of an a poorly exectuted (IMO) New Avengers book and just had these two teams in the first place.

Because that's what we ended up with right?


> Did you mean to say "it did change the CONCEPT." because I know the SQ changed...And if you are saying NEW Avengers changed the concept and that was the point then yeah, we are in agreement. I know that was the point. MY point is one which you support by stating "...they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways". Meaning: Marvel has come to the conclusion that the older concept is valuable, interesting, viable, potentially a money maker,etc. In short there is a need for the older concept. And clearly many people enjoy this NEW concept hence the need for TWO teams which is what I said in the first place. I stand by my opinion that NEW Avengers was so new and different they shoudl not have used the name Avengers in the first place.

If New Avengers was such a financial success then why would Marvel feel the need to go back to the core concept of the Avengers. Imo, they're not going to revert back to that anyway. Seems to me that in the wake of Civil War and with the new roles of superhumans in society that it would have been impossible to carry on the New Avengers as they were. I'd say the need for two teams was story driven as opposed to them realizing that the old concept was so desperately needed (a conclusion I don't think they ever even came to with the numbers NA was bringing in).

> Sorry, that's not persuasive. The old classic team Avengers, not the NEW Avengers team would support your contention more aptly I think. Also the NEW Avengers was not at odds with the government....only some of them. The team was at odds with itself which could have been portrayed just as effectively with the traditional version. The FF being at odds with the government means something. Remember, Registration and Civil War destroyed the NEW Avengers team.

No, the whole team was at odds with the government. Remember the T-bolts issues where the government deemed them too much of a threat and hired the Thunderbolts to teach them a lesson? Not to mention that the team had basically arrived at the decision that they couldn't trust anyone in SHIELD, what with SHIELD going wild in the Savage Land and mind-raping Spider-Man. Doesn't sound like the NA was buddy buddy with the government from my perspective.

> Bottom line for me: I wish we could have been spared all of Disassembled, HOM, 20-something issues of an a poorly exectuted (IMO) New Avengers book and just had these two teams in the first place.
>
> Because that's what we ended up with right?

Two teams arose from the Civil War. Would have been fairly ridiculous to have one team after CW. I think anyone expecting the MA to be the "nostalgia" team are going to be dissapointed. Obviously it'll have a more classic high flying superhero style but I very highly doubt its going to be a rehash of Avengers pre-Dissassembled.


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