Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
XPac

In Reply To
Squish!

Subj: Re: Head spinning...
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 11:21:24 am EST
Reply Subj: Head spinning...
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 01:01:29 am EST

Previous Post

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> > I don't think New Avengers was sucessfull on a number of fronts (certainly a finacial sucess though!)because it changed the status quo in a manner which did not remain consistent with the orginal concept as maintained throughout all the teams's incarnations. Start a new book if it's that different is what I'm saying. And if Marvel or Bendis or whomever wanted to capitalize on a brand name, well Defenders could have worked just as well.
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> Well, obviously you have a much higher opinion of the Defenders brand name than I do.
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> And yes, it did change the status quo. Hence the name "NEW" Avengers. The old team was disassembed, and what we created in NEW Avengers was something NEW. That was kind of the point. And they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways, so I don't see the big deal.
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Did you mean to say "it did change the CONCEPT." because I know the SQ changed...And if you are saying NEW Avengers changed the concept and that was the point then yeah, we are in agreement. I know that was the point. MY point is one which you support by stating "...they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways". Meaning: Marvel has come to the conclusion that the older concept is valuable, interesting, viable, potentially a money maker,etc. In short there is a need for the older concept. And clearly many people enjoy this NEW concept hence the need for TWO teams which is what I said in the first place. I stand by my opinion that NEW Avengers was so new and different they shoudl not have used the name Avengers in the first place.
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> > > And you can't do that with the Defenders.
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> Nope. Because the Defenders were already outcasts and vigilantes by nature. That made them poor vehicles for showing the deterioration of the relationship between the hero community and government. The Avengers are at the other end of the spectrum. They symbolize what it means to be heroes... when the government and them are at odds, it actually means something.
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Sorry, that's not persuasive. The old classic team Avengers, not the NEW Avengers team would support your contention more aptly I think. Also the NEW Avengers was not at odds with the government....only some of them. The team was at odds with itself which could have been portrayed just as effectively with the traditional version. The FF being at odds with the government means something. Remember, Registration and Civil War destroyed the NEW Avengers team.

Actualy, Registration and Civil War is a much more logical, interesting and feasible reason for the Avengers to have been disassembled than an insane psychotic murderous Scarlet Witch.

Bottom line for me: I wish we could have been spared all of Disassembled, HOM, 20-something issues of an a poorly exectuted (IMO) New Avengers book and just had these two teams in the first place.

Because that's what we ended up with right?


> > > >

> >
> Did you mean to say "it did change the CONCEPT." because I know the SQ changed...And if you are saying NEW Avengers changed the concept and that was the point then yeah, we are in agreement. I know that was the point. MY point is one which you support by stating "...they're probably going back to the older concept in Mighty anyways". Meaning: Marvel has come to the conclusion that the older concept is valuable, interesting, viable, potentially a money maker,etc. In short there is a need for the older concept. And clearly many people enjoy this NEW concept hence the need for TWO teams which is what I said in the first place. I stand by my opinion that NEW Avengers was so new and different they shoudl not have used the name Avengers in the first place.
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I never thought Marvel or Bendis believed the older concept wasn't valuable or interesting or viable. They changed it to get a desired effect... that being the enviroment of Civil War. That effect achieved, they brought it back.

This was all story driven. The Avengers not being what they were created a void and that void was mentioned many times in many places. That created a deterioration between the hero community and government, and the Mighty Avengers will to get that back.


>
> Sorry, that's not persuasive. The old classic team Avengers, not the NEW Avengers team would support your contention more aptly I think. Also the NEW Avengers was not at odds with the government....only some of them. The team was at odds with itself which could have been portrayed just as effectively with the traditional version. The FF being at odds with the government means something. Remember, Registration and Civil War destroyed the NEW Avengers team.
>

The team itself is at odds with SHIELD because they came together in the first place without SHIELDs permission. Various government agencies including SHIELD and the CSA weren't happy about that. The incident in the Savage Land didn't exactly help matters either on both sides.

> Actualy, Registration and Civil War is a much more logical, interesting and feasible reason for the Avengers to have been disassembled than an insane psychotic murderous Scarlet Witch.
>

That certainly would have been a feasible way to disassemble the Avengers. But the thing about Civil War is that a lot of things needed to happen to lead to that. Disassembled led to New Avengers and Secret War which led to House of Men and Decimation which led to Civil War. It was a series of events which organically grew into each other which led to Civil War.


> Bottom line for me: I wish we could have been spared all of Disassembled, HOM, 20-something issues of an a poorly exectuted (IMO) New Avengers book and just had these two teams in the first place.
>
> Because that's what we ended up with right?
>

All the Disassembled, House of M and NA stuff led to the Avengers becoming the most popular on-going series in Marvel and narratively being the core of the entire marvel universe. Had Bendis not done what he did, the Avengers probably wouldn't have justidied a second book sales wise.

Now we have Mighty Avengers and New Avengers not to mention Marvel Adventures Avengers and even Avengers Next plus Ultimates. The process Bendis used to get the Avengers put them ahead of the XBooks as being Marvels crown jewel superteam (something in my mind they should have been from day one).


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