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Post By
deron

In Reply To
Bk Ray

Subj: Re: Are you really that ignorant............................
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:23:50 pm CST
Reply Subj: Re: Are you really that ignorant............................
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 01:03:03 pm CST

Previous Post

> > >
> > > > > Mr Sinister comes from an era in English history where homosexuality was well known among the educated classes, although taboo to discuss. So is Elias Bogan, founder of the Hellfire Club.
> > > > >
> > > > This really bites me. You are saying Sinister is gay because of this fantasy? So if he's probably gay, then stats wise over 50% of the British male population was gay at this time!?!?
> > > >
> > > > Do not try to force your misguided assumptions on Brits.
> > >
> > > I believe s/he was referring to the upper educated classes, which was most certainly not fifty percent of the British male population. So perhaps you should try to not force your misunderstanding of the original point on your own manifest homophobia.
> >
> > No. I am certainly not homophobic and I do not accept your insult as a defence. Even 'giving him the benefit of the doubt' He is still saying that over 50% of that region were homosexual.
>
> How on earth are you arriving at this statistic? The original poster said "homosexuality was well known among the educated classes"; given that he says this in the context of Mr. Sinister, who came from better-than-average (at the least) social conditions, I interpreted this to be a reference to the upper class in Britain -- which most certainly did not constitute fifty percent of the region. And men -- who are the only ones we're speaking of here -- don't constitute fifty percent of the population (globally speaking, we're fifty one percent female forty nine percent male) in any event.
>
> >I find it offensive that people try to sterotype Brits, just as you might find it offensive if Americans were all labelled fat and stupid.
> >
> Well, I find it at the least interesting that you equate homosexuality with obesity and stupidity, and that you grew so angry that someone suggested that two characters might be gay given their social background. You say you are rankled that people make generalizations about Brits, but would you be so upset if someone had said "Philanthropy was known among the educated classes"? Why is it so offensive that someone made a remark that someone could have interpreted to mean that some percentage of Brits were homosexual?
>
> Best,
>
> DO

Simple, the poster stated that Mr Sinister was probably gay based PURELY on the fact he was an educated englishman of that period. NO OTHER REASON. Now just taking that one portion of the population he stated, educated males, then in order to be PROBABLE then over 50% of that sample group would have to be gay. Less than 50% then it would be UNPROBABLE if a member of that group was of the specified sexuality.

I am not going to insult your intelligence, but surely you know that there are common derogatory terms associated with homosexuality. I trust you don't want me to spell them out here!?!?

It is not homosexuality I specificly have a major problem with here (as in the act itself) and I have not 'kicked off' when unwelcome attention has come my way, but took it as a compliment. I have a problem rather as aforementioned, the negative content that people attach to it and therefore to Brits. This is similiar to the fact that people don't like being called 'Pakis' despite the fact that 'Paki' means pure.






> > > >
> > > > > > Mr Sinister comes from an era in English history where homosexuality was well known among the educated classes, although taboo to discuss. So is Elias Bogan, founder of the Hellfire Club.
> > > > > >
> > > > > This really bites me. You are saying Sinister is gay because of this fantasy? So if he's probably gay, then stats wise over 50% of the British male population was gay at this time!?!?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do not try to force your misguided assumptions on Brits.
> > > >
> > > > I believe s/he was referring to the upper educated classes, which was most certainly not fifty percent of the British male population. So perhaps you should try to not force your misunderstanding of the original point on your own manifest homophobia.
> > >
> > > No. I am certainly not homophobic and I do not accept your insult as a defence. Even 'giving him the benefit of the doubt' He is still saying that over 50% of that region were homosexual.
> >
> > How on earth are you arriving at this statistic? The original poster said "homosexuality was well known among the educated classes"; given that he says this in the context of Mr. Sinister, who came from better-than-average (at the least) social conditions, I interpreted this to be a reference to the upper class in Britain -- which most certainly did not constitute fifty percent of the region. And men -- who are the only ones we're speaking of here -- don't constitute fifty percent of the population (globally speaking, we're fifty one percent female forty nine percent male) in any event.
> >
> > >I find it offensive that people try to sterotype Brits, just as you might find it offensive if Americans were all labelled fat and stupid.
> > >
> > Well, I find it at the least interesting that you equate homosexuality with obesity and stupidity, and that you grew so angry that someone suggested that two characters might be gay given their social background. You say you are rankled that people make generalizations about Brits, but would you be so upset if someone had said "Philanthropy was known among the educated classes"? Why is it so offensive that someone made a remark that someone could have interpreted to mean that some percentage of Brits were homosexual?
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > DO
>
> Simple, the poster stated that Mr Sinister was probably gay based PURELY on the fact he was an educated englishman of that period. NO OTHER REASON. Now just taking that one portion of the population he stated, educated males, then in order to be PROBABLE then over 50% of that sample group would have to be gay. Less than 50% then it would be UNPROBABLE if a member of that group was of the specified sexuality.

No, the poster did not say Mr. Sinister was probably gay. He said he suspected Mr. Sinister might be based on a specific socio-historic circumstance. He identified a particular class of British culture at specific time in history and speculated from there. You were the one who took that to mean that he was asserting some fantasy that at least fifty percent of British males were gay (though you seem to be downgrading that to fifty percent of this specific class). As you don't want to insult my intelligence, then I won't insult yours by pointing out the difference between "suspected" and "probable."
>

> It is not homosexuality I specificly have a major problem with here (as in the act itself) and I have not 'kicked off' when unwelcome attention has come my way, but took it as a compliment. I have a problem rather as aforementioned, the negative content that people attach to it and therefore to Brits. This is similiar to the fact that people don't like being called 'Pakis' despite the fact that 'Paki' means pure.

Well then perhaps you should work against the negative assumptions people have of homosexuals rather than accept them and rail against people who suggest that homosexual acts might have been repressed but not uncommon in a specific class of British society. And "Paki" is used as an epithet or lazy abbreviation by people who, generally speaking, don't know much about Pakistanis, Pakistani immigrants or their culture. They probably don't mind being called Pakistani, though. Similarly, homosexuals don't have a problem being called homosexual, though "homo" might offend. But you didn't object to an epithet, you objected to the suggestion that Mr. Sinister might be gay because it was not uncommon in Victorian upper classes -- you took it to mean that at least fifty percent of Brits must be gay. As such, it seems to me that you are indeed objecting to the suggestion of homosexuality. Now, that might not be what you intended to say or suggest, but it is what you did say and suggest.

Best,

DO
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