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Subj: Re: Many people have wanted to get taken up the Avengers tower
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 11:24:53 pm CST
Reply Subj: Re: Many people have wanted to get taken up the Avengers tower
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:44:15 am CST

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> You're reply made some interesting points...but in the end it was retarded. A gay character doesn't mean they have to always be doing gay things. Or working on gay issues. All I'm saying is you have a team of most likely 7 to 10 people. Those people all react differently. If you had a gay character in there it would be just another reaction. The idea that if you had a gay character they would have to make the team act like they were at pride or a gay bar, is just ignorant. I just one a character that likes guys. Ultimate does it with Collosus, and the storylines don't revolve around gay stuff all the time. Yes it has some storylines that deal with hate, or Collosus goes to the prom...they are awesome stories. The idea that gays can only be involved in a gay situation is so homophobic. Thats like having Luke Cage only lead the Avengers when it is a black issue. Stupid. Really stupid.

Ok fair point but going around saying things like stupid just makes you come across as a bit of a bigot yourself in not wanting to listen to other opinions that dont match with your own.

And thats kinda of my real point, i can SEE having a character with a different dynamic can help create a different perspective in a comic yet having a gay character for the sake of having gay characters is just to use your words...stupid.

No one said anything about a gay character can only be in a gay situation so please take your screeching about 'homophobic comments' back.

It comes across as just a knee jerk emotive and pointless response that isn't helping anyone actually LOOK at the issues and just increases homophobic feelings or resentments if we can't acutally have adult conversations that some people may NOT agree with... lets get it all out and i think people can make up their own minds what is or what isn't homophobic without people becoming self appointed judge jurys and thought police.

My take is simple, there are MANY minorities (um wierd logic that)
and all of them bring a subtle flavor to the mix, some minorities are more sexy or have greater champions....

(side note...what do i mean? Well like charities, some are sexy and attractive and catch the publics eye such as aids, dying babies, gay rights and so on, some are less so, such as colon cancer, joggers nipple, and so on.
And as such some minorities will be considered either fair game to ignore or to actively oppress...such as who cares about white farmers in africa? or perhaps the rights of Afghanistan people to produce opium, or Chinas view on tibet or other such things that obviously are not so easily relatable or identifiable with yet are valid for those people.

Ok i use extreme examples but its late i can't think and guess you get the gist....where do we go and what do we do if we simple want to represent a cross section of the world we live in?

What i am trying to get without people screeching homophobe at me is...

Rather than force a character that happens to be gay on a story i like how things have generally evolved with gay characters previously in that it just happened to further the story it wasnt suddenly like a gay character has been shoe horned into the situation.

As in real life it resonates more when people have depth and dimension and are people who happen to also be gay rather than a gay person.

If on a story it happens to be revealed miss marvel had some lesbian trysts that would be more believable and more impact then suddenly for no apparent reason thrusting a lesbian character into the mix just to balance things up.

Same as if it was found out that captain america actually was greatly opposed to the muslim faith or abortion (or for) it would be a far more potent story as we see cap EVOLVE those feelings and fight with them rather than have a new member put on the team who happens to be anti muslim (or for)

Sure, to clarify, go ahead and add a new character that people like then maybe one day REVEAL it, i can see that.

But adding for the sake of adding to right a so called wrong just seems to contrived and a bit of grandstanding causes and overly political...politics has a place in comics but not political grandstanding.

So no 'CAPTAIN pro life for me' or 'MR euthanasia' joining the avengers.

Just as it happens that, that is the favorable political climate at the time and lets keep the personal campaigners of those causes out (whoever they may be, be it gay, feminist, conservative, muslim,christian) No matter how good the so called intentions are they are doing it from a self serving position.
Less of using the comic for their politcal means to force a view rather than what it should be about to deliver a damn good story that MAY be very political but is NOT a party politcal broadcast and allows your to EVOLVE a view.

(which accusations of stupid and homphobic do NOT allow as they entail that there is ONLY one view and it is your view...which sound amazingly facist and petty minded)

Lets get things out and use our heads and when we hear things we don't like lets stop rushing to the thought control buttons, if thats ok with you?

As i personally feel many people want a gay character NOT out of some story driven motivation but out of a desire to express and enforce a politcal view about the 'gay' issue
to create a champion for that cause and ok...thats fine in some cases, yet thats just propaganda in another name. Which is also fine, and many independent comics can and do, do that. Yet at least then you know where they are coming from.

Yet in main stream ones its nicer to come to your own conclusions and keep things relatviely seccualar when it comes to belief systems and hopefully propaganda free, (whatever you cause may be) but fair enough to show and express some stories that contain those issues..

Is that making any sense?


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> > > Are there any other gay characters in the Marvel U besides Wiccan, Hulkling, Northstar, Anole, and Karma? I think they need to be represented more. Your thoughts?
> > >
> > > I think that they don't need to be represented more unless they bring a new or different perspective; Gay for its own sake doesn't contribute. In many instances we have no idea of a character's religion or sexual preference, because for the vast majority of those characters who the characters really are is irrelevant to their role in the story.
> > >
> > > In the case of Wiccan and Hulkling, its integral to the characters' dynamic and to the team dynamic.
> >
> >
> > Yup totally agree, i know comics have to relate to people and almost make tokenism part of its entire philosophy, yet a smattering of it is fine just if you try to hard to represent every minority you soon make it look NOTHING like real life if the intention was infact to balance it out.
> >
> > Most comics deal with these subjects in very good and non direct ways.
> >
> > You can read the xmen and think of it as a racial statement about black suppression and yet you don't need any of the characters to be ethnic unless it really makes sense,
> >
> > Personally i like that better, if you made the xmen a totally black group then unfortunately they could easily be steered into being ONLY about that issue....Zzzzzz
> >
> > Yet if you keep them as they are i feel it can create a mental meme that may wake up a few more conservative and white people from their sleeps by putting them in situations they have never felt (as they are relating with the character)
> >
> > So you put a gay team in the world and yes a lot of people would relate yet the majority would probably be turned off so any stories or points you want to make with the gay team would be lost, You put a redneck hetro team in gay situations
> >
> > (no, not like having to plan a wedding, but situations that REALLY are serious such as having to face prejudice, violence, rejection)
> >
> > And you soon get the point across about what it FEELS like to be in those situations and then they can relate more...
> >
> > Having Avengers comprised of Cap Gay, Hydrocephalus Kid, Rd Dyslexic, Irritable old facist man, and auntie kleptomanicalbulimic may indeed represent the real world yet starts to become a mardi gras spectacular of crassness and repulsivness that any point is lost.
> >
> > So sure all means have gay characters but dont force it....*honestly no pun intended
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> > >

I agree with pretty much everything you said but I think you've misjudged most of us who want more gay characters. I really can only speak for myself (but I suspect I'm in the majority) but I want more characters that are like me and reflect what I've gone through. Not to change the world or make a statement but just because it would be nice.

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