Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
Sandman

In Reply To
Happy Hogan

Subj: Re: A few points . . .
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 12:16:24 pm EST
Reply Subj: A few points . . .
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:47:18 pm EST

Previous Post

> > Stark,reed,namor,blackbolt,xavier, strange have made things worse in the 616. Think about it itwas them who invaded the skrull world and confronted the skrulls which led them to get captured and the lessons learned by the skrulls allowed them to create these new super skrulls.
>
> As much as they may have angered the Skrulls with that, even if they never did it, what are the chances that the Skrulls would honestly stop trying to invade Earth? Seriously.
>
> > Also now thanks to them taking the infinty gems the skrulls have the space gem.
>
> That all depends on how long Black Bolt has been a Skrull, no? We don't know yet.
>
> > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.

to Tycoon: I really see that as the Hulk's bad more than the Illuminati's. The Hulk was pissed off at FOUR people, and he put an entire city in danger just to get back at them. Plus, I personally would hate to be bound and held prisoner on evidence as flimsy as what he Hulk had on Stark, Richards, Strange, and Black Bolt.

>
> Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.

Now to Century: From the point of view of the one planet, yes you're correct. But from the point of view of an entire inhabited galaxy, what they did was completely wrong! If something like the Hulk landed on my planet in an extraterrestial spaceship, I'd be really pissed of at the "brilliant minds" that so recklessly and carelessly put him on that ship in the first place. The fact that they had intended for him to be on another planet would be a poor excuse, since they had so carelessly bragged about their accomplishment to the one they had exiled.

>
> Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.

to Century again: No way back to earth, yeah pretty unlikely. No way to some other planet which in all probablility would be helpless against this force of nature they (the Illuminati Four) released on the universe? That's was a lot more likely to occur, especially given what they knew about the Hulk. The Hulk may have deserved exile, but there's a universe of planet inhabitants out there in the MU that probably didn't deserve the Hulk to be exiled on theirs.

BTW, the thing about the illuminati admitting to the Hulk what they did brings up an issue for another post sometime. Tony Stark in particular seems to have a compulsion to be able to say to everyone: "I'm better than you.!" and saying that even when good common sense would dictate doing otherwise.
>
> > And the indvidual members have caused numerous things on there own. Stark created weather satilites that were later used by Ultron to cause damages.
>
> So Stark should give up his job of inventing things in case Ultron should ever steal them?

Maybe Stark should tell people that he's working on a way to control the worlds weather, in case anybody has an issue with it. And in a world anything like our own, many people would. I'll elaborate more on this in another post if anyone's interested.

>
> > and lets not forget stark knew parts of dta from ultron where still there and didn't do anything about it.
>
> He didn't exactly have much chance to do anything about it between #6-7, did he now?
>
> > Reed and Stark and Pym created clor and it went screwy and killed golaith and also turned a powerful possible ally agianst stark in thor.
>
> Yes, they have a death on their hands, and Hank is at least guilt-ridden over that. But as for Thor, who knew
> a) Thor would ever be back?

Irrevelant to the debate.

> b) Thor was anti-cloning?

Unless he had Thor's expressed permission to clone him, it was WRONG! If I rob you, do I get to say it's OK because you never told me that you didn't want to be robbed?
And if Tony thought that Thor wouldn't mind, why did he keep secret the fact that he held onto a sample of his DNA?

> c) Thor would cretinously blame Stark for something Reed and Hank did?
No, Thor blamed Stark for something Reed and Hank AND Stark did! He will probably blame Reed and Hank just as much when he sees them. But since he considered Tony a closer friend, he ought to be angrier with him than the other two.




Happy Hogan

> > > Stark,reed,namor,blackbolt,xavier, strange have made things worse in the 616. Think about it itwas them who invaded the skrull world and confronted the skrulls which led them to get captured and the lessons learned by the skrulls allowed them to create these new super skrulls.
> >
> > As much as they may have angered the Skrulls with that, even if they never did it, what are the chances that the Skrulls would honestly stop trying to invade Earth? Seriously.
> >
> > > Also now thanks to them taking the infinty gems the skrulls have the space gem.
> >
> > That all depends on how long Black Bolt has been a Skrull, no? We don't know yet.
> >
> > > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.
>
> to Tycoon: I really see that as the Hulk's bad more than the Illuminati. The Hulk was pissed off at FOUR people, and he put an entire city in danger just to get back at them. Plus, I personally would hate to be bound and held prisoner on evidence as flimsy as what he Hulk had on Stark, Richards, Strange, and Black Bolt.

To be fair, the Hulk and crew actually invaded Manhattan, instead of attacking it, with possible evidence of the four's guilt, while Stark is the one who's actions started and caused more damage to the city while the Hulk was in defense. Tony and the super-heroes were reckless as if Tony and Reed were too important to the world as if the human race was pathetic to take care of themselves. And let's not forget that the Hulk ended up saving innocent lives from their actions like Doctor Strange and Iron Man, while the Hulk did almost go nuclear when he found out he was betrayed, but was willing to sacrifice himself to save the people.

In the end, the Illuminati proven to be more dangerous when it comes to the actions they chose to make and proved that they were the villains to the people and not the Hulk. Also, even though they were innocent, they acted like they believed it was possible that they're responsible. That they were in denial and were saving themselves.
>
> >
> > Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.
>
> Now to Century: From the point of view of the one planet, yes you're correct. But from the point of view of an entire inhabited galaxy, what they did was completely wrong! If something like the Hulk landed on my planet in an extraterrestial spaceship, I'd be really pissed of at the "brilliant minds" that so recklessly and carelessly put him on that ship in the first place. The fact that they had intended for him to be on another planet would be a poor excuse, since they had so carelessly bragged about their accomplishment to the one they had exiled.
>
> >
> > Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.
>
> to Century again: No way back to earth, yeah pretty unlikely. No way to some other planet which in all probablility would be helpless against this force of nature they (the Illuminati Four) released on the universe? That's was a lot more likely to occur, especially given what they knew about the Hulk. The Hulk may have deserved exile, but there's a universe of planet inhabitants out there in the MU that probably didn't deserve the Hulk to be exiled on theirs.
>
> BTW, the thing about the illuminati admitting to the Hulk what they did brings up an issue for another post sometime. Tony Stark in particular seems to have a compulsion to be able to say to everyone: "I'm better than you.!" and saying that even when good common sense would dictate doing otherwise.
> >
> > > And the indvidual members have caused numerous things on there own. Stark created weather satilites that were later used by Ultron to cause damages.
> >
> > So Stark should give up his job of inventing things in case Ultron should ever steal them?
>
> Maybe Stark should tell people that he's working on a way to control the worlds weather, in case anybody has an issue with it. And in a world anything like our own, many people would. I'll elaborate more on this in another post if anyone's interested.
>
> >
> > > and lets not forget stark knew parts of dta from ultron where still there and didn't do anything about it.
> >
> > He didn't exactly have much chance to do anything about it between #6-7, did he now?
> >
> > > Reed and Stark and Pym created clor and it went screwy and killed golaith and also turned a powerful possible ally agianst stark in thor.
> >
> > Yes, they have a death on their hands, and Hank is at least guilt-ridden over that. But as for Thor, who knew
> > a) Thor would ever be back?
>
> Irrevelant to the debate.
>
> > b) Thor was anti-cloning?
>
> Unless he had Thor's expressed permission to clone him, it was WRONG! If I rob you, do I get to say it's OK because you never told me that you didn't want to be robbed?
> And if Tony thought that Thor wouldn't mind, why did he keep secret the fact that he held onto a sample of his DNA?
>
> > c) Thor would cretinously blame Stark for something Reed and Hank did?
> No, Thor blamed Stark for something Reed and Hank AND Stark did! He will probably blame Reed and Hank just as much when he sees them. But since he considered Tony a closer friend, he ought to be angrier with him than the other two.
>
>
>
>
> Happy Hogan


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